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Posted: 12/2/2013 8:26:55 PM EDT
I've often wondered how shooting with out ear pro would affect me. Obviously a SD shooting would lack our usual range accouterments so why not train without it?
Just for grins I took off my ears and dropped the hammer on my 1911 (last range trip). Holy shit it was loud. Stunned me for a second. Any thoughts? |
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I think it's a great way to do permanent damage to your hearing. I don't see a benefit in harming a critical survival sense in the very rare chance you'll have to shoot defensively without earpro.
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In a real life situation you probably won't even hear the shots anyway.
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Just think of it this way, if you practice without hearing protection long enough you really won't have to worry about the sound when it's fo time.
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I've often wondered how shooting with out ear pro would affect me. Obviously a SD shooting would lack our usual range accouterments so why not train without it? Just for grins I took off my ears and dropped the hammer on my 1911 (last range trip). Holy shit it was loud. Stunned me for a second. Any thoughts? View Quote Why bother wearing eyes and ears either? safety and hearing is for fags. |
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Years ago, in the Marines you were not allowed to wear hearing protection on live fire and maneuver ranges. The thought process was you had to hear all commands from your leadership, the range safety types and you had to get us to the sound and concussion you would experience in combat
We stopped the practice years ago with the fielding of combat arms ear plugs and more awareness of hearing conservation I have to say though, there are some people like my self who never got ringing ears even as a SAW of 240 gunner while all my TBS classmates complained about it for days after each field exercises |
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I've been shooting USPSA/IPSC for over 30 years... most of the time also an active range officer... I have significant hearing loss in the 4000Hz range... even with custom ear plugs... and double muffs for the dreaded 9x25s....
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It's loud, it is highly unlikely to affect you immediately in the event you are involved in an actual shooting, your focus will be elsewhere. Even while hunting without any immediate danger to life most people's senses are so engaged that recoil and blast are barely noticed if at all. Conserve your hearing, losing it sucks, and then there's that damned ringing.
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Don't do it because it serves no purpose and you'll screw up your hearing permanently in very short order.
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WHAT DID YOU SAY?
Seriously, training is training, no need to lose your hearing over training. I can honestly say I have never really heard [I do normally wear hearing protection when I hunt with my .454 Casull, they are the active plug type, but on several occasions with a shotgun I didn't] the shot when taking one. All I have really heard was a muffled thump which is entirely different then when sighting in. Protect your ears as much as you can, after all, you DO want to hear the "bad guy" when he breaks into your house, right? |
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My ears are bad enough too, shootin' guns, going to concerts, and loud guitar amps. Not worth it. If there's any background noise, I can hear people speak, just can't make out what they are saying.
The first time I ever shot a .357 was with no plugs or muffs, it was pretty bad. And it was only 1 round. I never did that again. Once in a long while, I'll shoot a few .22 rounds without plugs, but I very rarely even do that. (not recommended) |
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There are even reports of SD shootings or even combat where the shooter was actually protected by the adrenaline dump caused by the stress.
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+1 as I sit here hearing "riiiiinnnng" every waking moment. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You can't buy new hearing, take good care of what you have. +1 as I sit here hearing "riiiiinnnng" every waking moment. Damn it. Now I'm sitting here hearing the ring. I forget about it because it's always there.... |
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There are even reports of SD shootings or even combat where the shooter was actually protected by the adrenaline dump caused by the stress. View Quote There is no magic hearing protection that kicks in. If you fire without earpro you will cause damage guaranteed. The shots might not be noticed by the shooter but that's not a physical block, just your brain discarding some sensory inputs. The amount of damage will depend on the circumstances and you may not do measureable damage but it will happen. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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From experience, In real life I did hear the shots but they weren't loud (to me). A guy shot at us so four of us returned fire. I heard every shot but it didn't effect my hearing at that time. I've shot without hearing protection at the range and it's real loud. My ears rang for hours. |
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From experience, In real life I did hear the shots but they weren't loud (to me). A guy shot at us so four of us returned fire. I heard every shot but it didn't effect my hearing at that time. I've shot without hearing protection at the range and it's real loud. My ears rang for hours. View Quote I accidentally touched off one single round [and not a top end load at that, just a 260 grain XTP] from my .454 without hearing protection [I usually double up] and it was physically painful. That is, it hurt like hell. It is a very easy way to bring on a screaming case of the "flinchies." |
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Way back in the day the .45 ACP was preferred by tunnel rats due to lower muzzle flash and less offensive muzzle blast. But it was still very loud and well over the threshold required for damage to your hearing.
With that in mind consider that the average 9mm is even louder and an AR-15 is significantly loader than that, especially in 16" carbine form. The moderator used on the XM177 series was intended to reduce the noise level to that comparable to the M16A1. It's something worth considering next time you hear someone talk about what a great choice the AR-15 is for home defense, when it's really about the last thing you want to be firing in an enclosed space without hearing protection. It's not a deal breaker maybe, but it certainly a valid factor to consider when it's you, your wife and children that will be exposed. In some cases hearing loss can be minimized after an exposure to gun fire without hearing protection. Your local doctor will prescribe steroids of a couple weeks and have you wear ear plugs to prevent any addition noise trauma during the healing process, but there are no guarantees. |
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Why bother wearing eyes and ears either? safety and hearing is for fags. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I've often wondered how shooting with out ear pro would affect me. Obviously a SD shooting would lack our usual range accouterments so why not train without it? Just for grins I took off my ears and dropped the hammer on my 1911 (last range trip). Holy shit it was loud. Stunned me for a second. Any thoughts? Why bother wearing eyes and ears either? safety and hearing is for fags. Amen! |
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With that in mind consider that the average 9mm is even louder and an AR-15 is significantly loader than that, especially in 16" carbine form. The moderator used on the XM177 series was intended to reduce the noise level to that comparable to the M16A1. View Quote The sound reduction of the compensator was 2-3 dBs. That was almost certainly nothing more than a side effect of the true function of the device: provide increased back pressure to reliably cycle the carbine. Back on topic: All it takes is one incidence of a suitably loud noise to destroy your hearing, and, once it's gone, it ain't coming back. Why risk it when hearing loss is completely preventable at the range? |
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Tinnitus is nothing to play with...
http://terminallance.com/2013/08/13/terminal-lance-285-questionable-advice/ |
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+1 as I sit here hearing "riiiiinnnng" every waking moment. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You can't buy new hearing, take good care of what you have. +1 as I sit here hearing "riiiiinnnng" every waking moment. Same here, from one shot out of a .357 revolver 10 years ago. Don't mess around with your hearing, it never comes back. |
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I don't want to hurt my hearing while defending my life, so I'm going to choose a subpar weapon.
We should all use .22 rifles for SD, apparently. |
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I can't believe a Red Rider is 97db!! That's crazy.
I would never train without ear pro. It's just not comfortable and obviously bad for you. That being said, I NEVER wear ear pro when I hunt. Usually I only take 1 shot all day though :-) There have been a few instances where I hit a deer with .30-06 then finish with my 9mm but just 2 shots is nothing compared to a day at the range. |
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1 shot is all it can take to permanently screw your hearing. (as well as balance). Would you rather train without ear pro and go permanently deaf, and not hear the glass breaking in your bedroom window as the perp comes into your house, or wear ear pro and hear them coming up the driveway?
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Any thoughts? View Quote Oh I have thoughts, but I'd get a time out. You have one set of fucking ear drums. Save them. |
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You can't buy new hearing, take good care of what you have. View Quote you train cause you want to be safer. Safety's goal is to: allow you to live longer and to live a higher quality of life. Going deaf defeats the 2nd part of that. Chronic exposure to lound shit will do that training however, like life, is a balance between effectiveness (realism I guess for training) and safety (ie: going home so you can continune to life live...for the better) wear your ear/eye pro. at the end of the day, you still have other shit to do; being blind and deaf wont help it |
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There is no need to train without hearing protection. You are just hurting your hearing.
During an actual incident you are not even going to really notice the sound. Your brain goes through "auditory exclusion" where essentially the mind is not really concerned with something like a gun shot. Never mind self defense, just talk to hunters that you might know. They'll tell you when you actually feel the adrenalin and focus of shooting at live game, you don't even notice the sound. |
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There is no magic hearing protection that kicks in. If you fire without earpro you will cause damage guaranteed. The shots might not be noticed by the shooter but that's not a physical block, just your brain discarding some sensory inputs. The amount of damage will depend on the circumstances and you may not do measureable damage but it will happen. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There are even reports of SD shootings or even combat where the shooter was actually protected by the adrenaline dump caused by the stress. There is no magic hearing protection that kicks in. If you fire without earpro you will cause damage guaranteed. The shots might not be noticed by the shooter but that's not a physical block, just your brain discarding some sensory inputs. The amount of damage will depend on the circumstances and you may not do measureable damage but it will happen. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This is all true. But what it implies is that there is no training value in shooting at the range without hearing protection. |
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I can't believe a Red Rider is 97db!! That's crazy. I would never train without ear pro. It's just not comfortable and obviously bad for you. That being said, I NEVER wear ear pro when I hunt. Usually I only take 1 shot all day though :-) There have been a few instances where I hit a deer with .30-06 then finish with my 9mm but just 2 shots is nothing compared to a day at the range. View Quote Decibels are (I believe) a logarithmic scale - that means 100 decibels is not twice as loud as 50 decibels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel |
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There is no need to train without hearing protection. You are just hurting your hearing. During an actual incident you are not even going to really notice the sound. Your brain goes through "auditory exclusion" where essentially the mind is not really concerned with something like a gun shot. Never mind self defense, just talk to hunters that you might know. They'll tell you when you actually feel the adrenalin and focus of shooting at live game, you don't even notice the sound. View Quote This. Heck, when my girlfriend shoots a deer, I'm excited enough that I don't hear a thing. |
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This. Heck, when my girlfriend shoots a deer, I'm excited enough that I don't hear a thing. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There is no need to train without hearing protection. You are just hurting your hearing. During an actual incident you are not even going to really notice the sound. Your brain goes through "auditory exclusion" where essentially the mind is not really concerned with something like a gun shot. Never mind self defense, just talk to hunters that you might know. They'll tell you when you actually feel the adrenalin and focus of shooting at live game, you don't even notice the sound. This. Heck, when my girlfriend shoots a deer, I'm excited enough that I don't hear a thing. Your ears still do... and they are damaged by it. I started wearing hearing protection while hunting after going years without. |
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Your ears still do... and they are damaged by it. I started wearing hearing protection while hunting after going years without. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There is no need to train without hearing protection. You are just hurting your hearing. During an actual incident you are not even going to really notice the sound. Your brain goes through "auditory exclusion" where essentially the mind is not really concerned with something like a gun shot. Never mind self defense, just talk to hunters that you might know. They'll tell you when you actually feel the adrenalin and focus of shooting at live game, you don't even notice the sound. This. Heck, when my girlfriend shoots a deer, I'm excited enough that I don't hear a thing. Your ears still do... and they are damaged by it. I started wearing hearing protection while hunting after going years without. We were talking about auditory exclusion. I hope nobody thought we meant it wouldn't effect your hearing. |
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This is all true. But what it implies is that there is no training value in shooting at the range without hearing protection. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There are even reports of SD shootings or even combat where the shooter was actually protected by the adrenaline dump caused by the stress. There is no magic hearing protection that kicks in. If you fire without earpro you will cause damage guaranteed. The shots might not be noticed by the shooter but that's not a physical block, just your brain discarding some sensory inputs. The amount of damage will depend on the circumstances and you may not do measureable damage but it will happen. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This is all true. But what it implies is that there is no training value in shooting at the range without hearing protection. I firmly believe that is correct. |
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There is no magic hearing protection that kicks in. If you fire without earpro you will cause damage guaranteed. The shots might not be noticed by the shooter but that's not a physical block, just your brain discarding some sensory inputs. The amount of damage will depend on the circumstances and you may not do measureable damage but it will happen. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There are even reports of SD shootings or even combat where the shooter was actually protected by the adrenaline dump caused by the stress. There is no magic hearing protection that kicks in. If you fire without earpro you will cause damage guaranteed. The shots might not be noticed by the shooter but that's not a physical block, just your brain discarding some sensory inputs. The amount of damage will depend on the circumstances and you may not do measureable damage but it will happen. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Had an AR go off approximately 12" from the side of my head. 'Felt' it more then heard it. No ringing ears. No hearing damage. Granted it was only one round and in a semi confined alley and not a hallway/room indoors. Still.... Essentially it was just a pop... about the same sound level as a paintball gun. Now, I'm no doctor so I can't say it'll be the ssame for everyone. But I can say I didn't suffer any hearing loss from that paricular incident. Training without earpro = stupid. When SHTF the rounds won't sound very loud. Your ears probably won't ring. And the trade off of not wearing earpro at that time is worth it. |
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This is rapidly becoming one of the dumber threads I've read on arfcom.
There is no magical property of adrenaline or activation of the sympathetic nervous system that will protect your hearing from loud noises. Auditory exclusion has nothing to do with the physiology of hearing, it is a psychological process. You may be so focused on specific events that you don't perceive or process other peripheral events, and/or you may not recall them as your memory of some of the peripheral events don't successfully transfer from short to long term memory. But that in no way effects how the middle and inner ear functions, it does not mean you did not "hear" the sound of the gun shot (as opposed to perceiving it or recalling it) and in no ways means that the sound intensity experienced will not damage your hearing. |
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Had an AR go off approximately 12" from the side of my head. 'Felt' it more then heard it. No ringing ears. No hearing damage. Granted it was only one round and in a semi confined alley and not a hallway/room indoors. Still.... Essentially it was just a pop... about the same sound level as a paintball gun. Now, I'm no doctor so I can't say it'll be the ssame for everyone. But I can say I didn't suffer any hearing loss from that paricular incident. Training without earpro = stupid. When SHTF the rounds won't sound very loud. Your ears probably won't ring. And the trade off of not wearing earpro at that time is worth it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There are even reports of SD shootings or even combat where the shooter was actually protected by the adrenaline dump caused by the stress. There is no magic hearing protection that kicks in. If you fire without earpro you will cause damage guaranteed. The shots might not be noticed by the shooter but that's not a physical block, just your brain discarding some sensory inputs. The amount of damage will depend on the circumstances and you may not do measureable damage but it will happen. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Had an AR go off approximately 12" from the side of my head. 'Felt' it more then heard it. No ringing ears. No hearing damage. Granted it was only one round and in a semi confined alley and not a hallway/room indoors. Still.... Essentially it was just a pop... about the same sound level as a paintball gun. Now, I'm no doctor so I can't say it'll be the ssame for everyone. But I can say I didn't suffer any hearing loss from that paricular incident. Training without earpro = stupid. When SHTF the rounds won't sound very loud. Your ears probably won't ring. And the trade off of not wearing earpro at that time is worth it. Not being argumentative but unless you had hearing tests before and after you'll never really know. The thing about hearing loss is that by the time you notice it you are in bad shape. One round really can be enough to cause permanent hearing damage depending on the circumstances but it isn't guaranteed. It's a funny deal and I'm probably overly cautious because I always double up, even on handguns. As far as SHTF, that's what cans are for unless it's a CCW situation. |
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I've never fired a gun without ears on, but I have been about 10' away from someone firing while taking a "range tour". It was mildly painful, but not ear-bleeding type stuff.
I'm going to continue practicing with ears on for safety, and I'm not going to be particularly concerned about hearing loss if I ever need to fire a gun outside of a one-way range. |
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5 slugs rapid fire out of a 12ga, no ear pro, but I didn't have much of a choice.
I barely heard the shots, but I'm sure it caused some damage. Same thing with all the animals I've taken hunting. Probably not so smart. |
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way to many rounds fired with out hearing protection, wearing ears is not going to hurt your training.
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