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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/31/2006 6:09:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 7:52:53 AM EDT by BIKECOP29]
I have never considered the 45 GAP, since I have two Para-Ord 45s (Tac Four and P12). One of the local pawn shops I frequent, the dealer was trying to push a brand new Springfield XD 5" Tactical in 45GAP on me. A package deal consisting of gun, 3 mags, holster, mag loader, and dual mag pouch for $459 + tax. Just the pistol with 2 mags and fiber optic sights for $439 + tax. Do these seem to be fair prices? I know that I can't get a Glock in 45GAP at these prices, which makes the XD more attractive. Would you GAP or just stick with good ole 45acp? Or go with a 9mm XD? I don't like the 40s&w, so that's not an option.

ETA: Found a better deal on a 4" XD 45GAP. Comes with holster, case, and 5 mags. With shipping and transfer fee, comes out to $415 total.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:20:48 PM EDT
He is trying to push it out the door to replace it with a .45 auto XD. I would pass, and stick with the good ol .45 acp. The .45 GAP can't die soon enough.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:25:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
He is trying to push it out the door to replace it with a .45 auto XD. I would pass, and stick with the good ol .45 acp. The .45 GAP can't die soon enough.



+1

he knows that when he starts getting in the .45acp XDs, he will be hard pressed to sell the gaps
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:33:30 PM EDT
I'd stay away from the GAP. I dont see the .45 GAP lasting. I thought about getting a XD in .45 GAP, but now that they are making the XD in 45ACP I'm waiting till May for the 5" XD in 45ACP.

I think by this time next year GAP ammo will be very hard to find!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:41:33 PM EDT
Thanks guys. Yeah, the ammo is a bitch to acquire at a good price. I did come across a flyer that had some Speer Lawman 45GAP for like $10.86/box of 50.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:02:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BIKECOP29:
Thanks guys. Yeah, the ammo is a bitch to acquire at a good price. I did come across a flyer that had some Speer Lawman 45GAP for like $10.86/box of 50.



I can't help but wonder what will be around in GAP in 5 years though. I'd stay away.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:16:10 PM EDT
i dont understand....its not the .45acp cartrige thats the problem, its just Glock's double stacked large frames (.45acp/10mm) that are the problem--they are too damn wide w/ alot of unneccessary plastic

instead of shaving the plastic, they made a new cartrige
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:44:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
i dont understand....its not the .45acp cartrige thats the problem, its just Glock's double stacked large frames (.45acp/10mm) that are the problem--they are too damn wide w/ alot of unneccessary plastic

instead of shaving the plastic, they made a new cartrige



+1

I've handled a G21 and it was just too wide for me to grip. My hands aren't exactly small either. I can grip my Para-Ord Tac Four and P12 with no problem.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 8:40:07 PM EDT
Glock should have uesd metal mags and cut back on the amount of plastic. The GAP will die. It is a solution to a glock only problem. Don't buy it.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:02:04 AM EDT
I think some of you are too quick to write the GAP off for the following reasons.

I don't believe the XD45ACP was put out by SA to compete with the GAP. If they just put the gun out, it had to have been in development for the past couple of years at least. If they knew they were going to put it out, why would they design, build, and market the GAP's of their own, including in a 1911 profile. That is like the same owner building two McDonald's across the street from each other.

The Glock GAP's still fill a niche of their own. That niche is those people that WANT A GLOCK IN 45CALIBER but feel the Glock 45ACP's are too big for their smaller hands. There are people and agencies that want this and nothing but this, and they wouldn't or can't rely on the XD to replace that. Let's face it, the XD is not and probably will never be as trusted or relied upon as much as Glock. Yes, Glock does seem to have taken the harder route of redesigning the cartridge instead of the gun, but I am sure it costs less and takes less time to develop a new round, than it does a gun. The other thing is, it would probably cost Glock too much money to completely retool for a vastly different gun design, and they may actually have tried to do so, but could not get the mechanics right. As it sits right now, all they did was wind up with a redesigned slide and barrel. The frames are exactly the same as their smaller brothers, so Glock has saved a ton of money by not building something that has an in between frame size.

As far as metal Glock magazines are concerned. Does anyone know of a reliable metal magazine for a Glock? The only thing they are good for is destroying the plastic magazine catch. So then you have to install a metal magazine catch now, then you have to reinforce the plastic around the magazine catch, and since you thinned the plastic to make your gun grip smaller, you don't have much to work with, and your gun starts cracking, and .......

Although, I can't cite sources, I have read that the 45GAP is actually progressing faster than the 40S&W and 357SIG cartridges did. There have been departments that have adopted the round, and I doubt they are going to re-equip with XD's anytime soon. As a matter of fact, is there a single police agency that even issues XD's?

Has ammo been kind of hard to come by? Sure it has, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for me anymore and I just stock up on 2 or 3 thousand at a time. I save my brass for reloading, so by the time you subtract the cost of brass which I won't have to buy again, my GAP ammo is way cheaper than 45ACP, and the price disparity isn't that high between the two in the first place.

One last thing I would like to point out. The XD45ACP is somewhat of a revolutionary design to be able to fit that many rounds in the size package that it does. What is not to say that SA took a chance in thinning that material down in order to accomplish that, and they are relying on the fact that most people shoot their gun twice a year so it most likely won't break on them. Once they have these thousand round a month guys putting these guns through their paces, we might just find the new gun is a lemon.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:20:15 AM EDT
Personally, I would get a G21 and have the grip cut down to accept the 10 round mags from the G30.

I have a G19 now, but if I did get another Glock, it would be the chopped 21.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:56:06 AM EDT
The XD GAP will be next year's white elephant. They are going to sit on shelves in droves.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:04:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By H53EXPERT:
I think some of you are too quick to write the GAP off for the following reasons.

I don't believe the XD45ACP was put out by SA to compete with the GAP. If they just put the gun out, it had to have been in development for the past couple of years at least. If they knew they were going to put it out, why would they design, build, and market the GAP's of their own, including in a 1911 profile. That is like the same owner building two McDonald's across the street from each other.

The Glock GAP's still fill a niche of their own. That niche is those people that WANT A GLOCK IN 45CALIBER but feel the Glock 45ACP's are too big for their smaller hands. There are people and agencies that want this and nothing but this, and they wouldn't or can't rely on the XD to replace that. Let's face it, the XD is not and probably will never be as trusted or relied upon as much as Glock. Yes, Glock does seem to have taken the harder route of redesigning the cartridge instead of the gun, but I am sure it costs less and takes less time to develop a new round, than it does a gun. The other thing is, it would probably cost Glock too much money to completely retool for a vastly different gun design, and they may actually have tried to do so, but could not get the mechanics right. As it sits right now, all they did was wind up with a redesigned slide and barrel. The frames are exactly the same as their smaller brothers, so Glock has saved a ton of money by not building something that has an in between frame size.

As far as metal Glock magazines are concerned. Does anyone know of a reliable metal magazine for a Glock? The only thing they are good for is destroying the plastic magazine catch. So then you have to install a metal magazine catch now, then you have to reinforce the plastic around the magazine catch, and since you thinned the plastic to make your gun grip smaller, you don't have much to work with, and your gun starts cracking, and .......

Although, I can't cite sources, I have read that the 45GAP is actually progressing faster than the 40S&W and 357SIG cartridges did. There have been departments that have adopted the round, and I doubt they are going to re-equip with XD's anytime soon. As a matter of fact, is there a single police agency that even issues XD's?

Has ammo been kind of hard to come by? Sure it has, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for me anymore and I just stock up on 2 or 3 thousand at a time. I save my brass for reloading, so by the time you subtract the cost of brass which I won't have to buy again, my GAP ammo is way cheaper than 45ACP, and the price disparity isn't that high between the two in the first place.

One last thing I would like to point out. The XD45ACP is somewhat of a revolutionary design to be able to fit that many rounds in the size package that it does. What is not to say that SA took a chance in thinning that material down in order to accomplish that, and they are relying on the fact that most people shoot their gun twice a year so it most likely won't break on them. Once they have these thousand round a month guys putting these guns through their paces, we might just find the new gun is a lemon.



Although it seems unlikely that SA would put out a gun that isn't fit for service, it seems very unusual that can fit that many rounds of .45 ACP into a gun not much larger than the original.

I agree with most of what you said. I would jump on the XD Tactical. That is a very good deal and you are getting .45 ACP power in a 9mm package. Think about that some more. You are getting the power of a .45 ACP in a pistol that was made around the small puny 9mm. The .45 GAP wasn't designed to directly compete with the .45 ACP. It was made to get more power out of guns that were made for 9mm. Lets look at the situation.
We now currently have the following major caliber that can fit into the smaller 9mm guns:
-9x19
-.40 S&W
-.357 SIG
-.45 GAP

Out of that list, which is the most powerful? The .45 GAP is an excellent round. I honestly do not see why so many people are so quick to say it sucks. What is wrong with the round? For those that say it is a round in search of an un called for problem, BS! There is a problem. Many double stacked autos that are built around the venerable .45 ACP are just plain too large. The .45 GAP solves this. Ammo can be had for around $11.00 a box and will increase with more people adopting the round (Which is happening). It isn't going anywhere and I think you should jump on that deal.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:00:32 PM EDT
Burkey, H53EXPERT,


Stop making sense.


Just bash the GAP.


Remember, it's new, it's different and it's not the .45ACP so it can't be any good.


Stop making sense. Stop it now.


Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:04:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG:
Burkey, H53EXPERT,


Stop making sense.


Just bash the GAP.


Remember, it's new, it's different and it's not the .45ACP so it can't be any good.


Stop making sense. Stop it now.





The only part of your post that made any sense to how the world really works is marked red.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:08:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG:
Burkey, H53EXPERT,


Stop making sense.


Just bash the GAP.


Remember, it's new, it's different and it's not the .45ACP so it can't be any good.


Stop making sense. Stop it now.





LOL! Finally someone else with a brain actually agreed with me.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:31:44 PM EDT
The .45 GAP didn't make any sense at all to me. I was pretty sure it would go the way of the .41 AE in short order. It still might, but I finally "got it" about 4 months ago. I was at a defensive pistol class where it was obvious that the Glock is absolutely the best pistol around for the novice shooter. I watched as new to moderately experienced shooters fumbled with decockers on Sigs and safeties on 1911s. I saw the Glock shooters progress much faster in the class because they could just shoot without stressing on the condition of the gun. If it was loaded, it was ready. That level of simplicity really made an obvious difference.

Before I go on, I should mention that the top shooters all shot 1911s. Experienced shooters already had gun handling down and didn't have to think about it like the less experienced shooters.

Back to the story... my parents were in that class. My mom was an NRA pistol instructor many years ago and my dad is no idiot with a gun. My dad watched as my mom and the rest of the class worked much smoother than him. He struggled with the safety, cut himself on sharp edges and generally got pissed off at his 1911. He choose the 1911 because of the caliber and because its a classic. At the end of the 4 day class, he was ready to abandon it.

He and I started considering the options. The Glock 21 is just too friggin' big and the 30 is no better in the grip. The 37 and 38 o the other hand, were perfect. They fit his hand, didn't seem cumbersome and were of a caliber that he likes.

(another side note... dad has since decided to keep the 1911. He's really dedicated himself to practice and will not have the same problems he did in the first class. I'm a bit proud of that as he was never really a shooter, in spite of the fact that he could and did shoot.)

For people like my dad who like the Glock as a platform but dislike the 21 and 30, the GAP makes a hell of a lot of sense. The XD in .45 ACP may also fill this niche but the XD isn't as friendly in terms of accessories, holsters, triggers, sights and the rest of the esoteria that goes with the gun. I'd like to see the GAP succeed, but I'm not holding my breath.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:14:16 PM EDT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG:
Burkey, H53EXPERT,


Stop making sense.


Just bash the GAP.


Remember, it's new, it's different and it's not the .45ACP so it can't be any good.


Stop making sense. Stop it now.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




The only part of your post that made any sense to how the world really works is marked red.





Okie Dokie now son, tell me how the world really works......
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:24:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG:
Burkey, H53EXPERT,


Stop making sense.


Just bash the GAP.


Remember, it's new, it's different and it's not the .45ACP so it can't be any good.


Stop making sense. Stop it now.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




The only part of your post that made any sense to how the world really works is marked red.





Okie Dokie now son, tell me how the world really works......



Anyone that would buy a .45 GAP also most likely drinks Keystone Light and shops for purses.


And don't ever call me son.

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:34:08 PM EDT
Never a good thing to be an early adopter of calibers. Look at the 6.8 PPC, all the hype and ammo and brass is hard to find. So far the situation is the same for the FN 5.7 caliber.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:08:39 PM EDT
The .45 GAP will die the same death the .40 S & W did.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:21:36 PM EDT
I didn't read all the replies but the gap 45 to the 45 is what the 40 s&w is to the 10mm. But I don't know if it will stay around as well as the 40 s&w has.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:58:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By protozo1:
I didn't read all the replies but the gap 45 to the 45 is what the 40 s&w is to the 10mm. But I don't know if it will stay around as well as the 40 s&w has.



Except the 10 mil is still alive,and the .45 gap is dead right from the starting block!!!

Bob
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:40:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By protozo1:
I didn't read all the replies but the gap 45 to the 45 is what the 40 s&w is to the 10mm. But I don't know if it will stay around as well as the 40 s&w has.



I think you need to do alot more reading than these replies if you think your analogy is correct.
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