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Posted: 10/7/2004 10:37:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 10:39:14 AM EST by HardShell]
Let me preface this all by saying that...

1) ... I own more 9mm handguns than any other caliber, carry them more, shoot them more, and shoot them better*...

and

2) ... I have two G17s and a G19 (my primary CCW weapon) that I've owned for years & have put God-knows-how-many rounds through with zero problems.


That being said, I was in one of my favorite shops last week & stumbled across a deal I just couldn't pass up - a used, excellent-condition older G21 with new (replacement) night sights, original "Tupperware" box, loader, papers, and 2 13-round magazines for $400 out the door.

Years ago when I was shopping for my very first Glock, the first one I considered was the G21. I owned a few .45s & had carried a compact .45 before as a concealment gun, so it was the first one I gravitated towards - until I held it! Now I'm a pretty big guy (6'3", 225# back then - I'm a bit heavier now ), but I've always had freakishly small hands for a guy my size. The G21 just felt way too big in my hands, much like the Desert Eagle pistols do. I didn't know if I'd be able to control it well, so I tried the smaller-framed Glocks and fell in love with the way they felt in my hands. I bought a G17, added the other 2 9mm Glocks shortly thereafter, and never looked back. When I held this G21 in the shop the other day, much to my surprise the grip didn't feel nearly as "oversized" as I remembered it. I don't believe my hands/fingers have gotten any bigger but I have shot a much wider variety of firearms over the years, including some larger-framed double-stack 9s/40s (Berettas, SIGs, etc.) which have bigger grips IMHO than the Glock 9/40 frame. For whatever reason, the look, feel, and price conspired to separate my wallet from four bills and the G21 came home with me.

I had a chance yesterday to clean & inspect it cursorily, put a hundred rounds through it, then clean & oil it well, and I must say I like it very much. It is still too big for CCW for my purposes IMO and won't replace my G19 in that capacity, but it will probably take up residence in my truck.

I'm glad I gave the G21 a second chance...



* Before you beat me up over my 9mm preference stated above, please understand that I own and shoot a WIDE variety of firearms, calibers, etc. I find 9mms to be the best balance of size/power for me (i.e., more comfortable to carry & conceal, easier to shoot well, cheaper to shoot a lot [I shoot a LOT ], etc.) and, as a result, I carry & shoot them much more (and better) than I do my .45s. YMMV, of course. I am NOT, however, one of those who have a disdain (or whatever) for the .45 just because I like my 9mms. To that end, here is my new (to me) G21 with my other .45s:



Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:58:48 PM EST
Okay - after shooting it a second time, I discovered one obvious "shortcoming" of my small hands and that large grip. My thumb does not easily/comfortably reach the slide release without radically adjusting my grip. I know there is at least one extended slide release on the market for this pistol. Is there more than one available? Have any of you used one? Which is best? I would appreciate any advice regarding this.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:04:22 PM EST
Glock's don't have slide releases. They are slide locks.

Release it by yanking the slide back with your support hand, until it is at the rearward end of it's travel then let it go.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:17:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 11:27:20 PM EST by HardShell]

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Glock's don't have slide releases. They are slide locks.



Yes, I've seen that posted here before (in fact, I was pretty sure someone would post this) - nevertheless, when I was searching for the parts earlier today, they were listed everywhere I found them as "Extended Slide Releases."
STRIKE THAT: I just looked back and two of the four sites I had looked at today had the correct "slide stop" terminology. As nutty as I get about "clips," I should humbly apologize for using the wrong term all of these years...





Release it by yanking the slide back with your support hand, until it is at the rearward end of it's travel then let it go.



Gee, thanks! I didn't know they worked like that.

Call me crazy, but I like to be able to do a "tactical reload" the way I was taught. I asked for specific advice on extended slide locks, not shooting technique. Thanks anyway...
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 1:53:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By HardShell:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Glock's don't have slide releases. They are slide locks.



Yes, I've seen that posted here before (in fact, I was pretty sure someone would post this) - nevertheless, when I was searching for the parts earlier today, they were listed everywhere I found them as "Extended Slide Releases."
STRIKE THAT: I just looked back and two of the four sites I had looked at today had the correct "slide stop" terminology. As nutty as I get about "clips," I should humbly apologize for using the wrong term all of these years...



Release it by yanking the slide back with your support hand, until it is at the rearward end of it's travel then let it go.



Gee, thanks! I didn't know they worked like that.

Call me crazy, but I like to be able to do a "tactical reload" the way I was taught. I asked for specific advice on extended slide locks, not shooting technique. Thanks anyway...



The theories are, among other things, that a "sling-shot" slide release method, is more forceful than releasing the slide stop. So it is less likely to fail to feed.

If you are ever in an actual shoot out or high stress incident, you will lose the ability to control fine muscle movements. Gross muscle movements will still be doable. Releasing the slide stop is a fine muscle movement, sling-shotting it is a gross muscle movement.

Pulling the slide to the rear, and letting it go is much more like how the weapon cycles when fired. Glock has said that doing that makes all the movalbe pieces in the weapon line up more like they do when the gun is fired. They have said they suspect that "flyers" in groups fired from pistols are oftent he first round because 1 round is loaded using a slide stop, and the next for are loaded when the weapon cycles.

Next, since you brought it up, if you have to change your grip on the weapon to use the slide release, that means you have to adjust your grip twice. Once to release the slide and once before resuming firing. Again in real life that could be very bad.

Excuse me for giving a suggestion, that most people like once they try. Excuse me for bringing up a technique that will solve you problem without costing any $$$$$$$$$.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:39:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By HardShell:
Okay - after shooting it a second time, I discovered one obvious "shortcoming" of my small hands and that large grip. My thumb does not easily/comfortably reach the slide release without radically adjusting my grip. I know there is at least one extended slide release on the market for this pistol. Is there more than one available? Have any of you used one? Which is best? I would appreciate any advice regarding this. hr


Hardshell

I own the following Glock models 26, 19, 17, 34, 23C, 35, 21 (I'm working on the set). I carry the 26 in the summer and the 23C with a .357 sig barrel in the winter. Compete in IDPA / IPSC with the 34, 35, and 21. All of my Glocks have a extended slide stops (same design that comes on the tactical 34 and 35's). I had to adjust the angle of my extended slide stop after installing it on the 21. The frame is a little wider than the 9/40 frames and needed a little tweak to not hang up on the frame. The 21 could also use a little longer mag release which I'm still looking for.

The extended slide stop should aid in sending the slide home without changing your grip. But, with my hands I still have to roll the gun to punch the mags out. Now only if glock would design an ambidextrous mag release?

As for technique in sending the slide to battery, my opinion is slide stop in competition and gross motor movements in combat. I have on occasions sent the slide home before the mag was seated causing a feed malfunction. But when practiced, shaves valuable seconds at the end of the day.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:46:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
The theories are, among other things, that a "sling-shot" slide release method, is more forceful than releasing the slide stop. So it is less likely to fail to feed.

If you are ever in an actual shoot out or high stress incident, you will lose the ability to control fine muscle movements. Gross muscle movements will still be doable. Releasing the slide stop is a fine muscle movement, sling-shotting it is a gross muscle movement.

Pulling the slide to the rear, and letting it go is much more like how the weapon cycles when fired. Glock has said that doing that makes all the movalbe pieces in the weapon line up more like they do when the gun is fired. They have said they suspect that "flyers" in groups fired from pistols are oftent he first round because 1 round is loaded using a slide stop, and the next for are loaded when the weapon cycles.

Next, since you brought it up, if you have to change your grip on the weapon to use the slide release, that means you have to adjust your grip twice. Once to release the slide and once before resuming firing. Again in real life that could be very bad.

Excuse me for giving a suggestion, that most people like once they try. Excuse me for bringing up a technique that will solve you problem without costing any $$$$$$$$$.



I know you didn't ask for that juicy tid-bit of info Hardshell but I could not agree with him any more on this subject. It's something that I "re-trained" myself to do a few months ago and something that was reenforced at a class I took at Blackwater yesterday. The guys fumbling around with slide releases took considerably longer to do their tac reloads that those that did the sling-shot. Just give it a try, don't rule it out until you try it. Make your support hand do all the work so you can get back in the fight sooner!
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:16:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 7:22:23 PM EST by HardShell]
Guys,

I didn't mind the "sling-shot" suggestion at all, it has been suggested to me once or twice before - it just isn't the way I do things. I've been carrying every day of my life for 20+ years and practice more than your average "non-operator" (one of the advantages of having your own private range ). Some old dogs may be able to learn new tricks... this one's going to keep doing what has served him well for the last couple of decades (and what muscle memory almost dictates at this point ). YMMV (and apparently does).

I'm not offended at your suggestions - please don't be offended that I don't adopt them.


As to my having to change my grip with the G21, that is only because I can't quite reach the slide stop as it is now without changing my hold - an extended slide stop should make that unwanted grip-change unnecessary. FWIW, I can reach the slide stops on my other 3 (9mm) Glocks without changing my grip at all & none of them have an extended slide stop - the larger grip "girth" of the G21 is what's causing my problem. (That, and my aforementioned freakishly small hands... )


ETA: FWIW, I've never had a FTF from any of my Glocks from releasing the slide stop manually, after 10+ years and thousands of rounds. It may happen tomorrow, but it hasn't yet. (And yes, I HAVE had it happen on other pistols & realize it is a possibility.)
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:22:09 AM EST
Sweet deal! Much like the tires on your car are the only link to the road, skin on the grip is your only control measure/link to the gun. You can get lots of skin on a G21 grip!

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:23:17 AM EST
Looks like a great 1st Gen to me. My primary CCW is a 3rd gen Glock 21 with the finger groove frame, and the accessory rail. True that some people feel they're too big for CCW, but with the right body type (read wide chest,wide hips, narrow waist) it will disappear. The Glock 21 in a kydex or Bianchi accumold holster, and a Fobus double mag carrier on the weak side, even a reasonably light cover garment does the job. I wear a standard BDU top, or a "Ranger vest".
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