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Posted: 12/16/2003 7:31:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 8:27:37 AM EDT by Langadune]
I'm thinking seriously about trading my Glock 27 in for a 1911. Anyone have any suggestions for a good one I can pick up on as close to an even trade as possible. BTW, it's just over a year old, less 1000 rounds through it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:46:49 PM EDT
Welcome to the light

Look at the base model Springfields and Colts.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:56:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:36:12 PM EDT
Kimber makes good guns

best idea is too head to the gunstore and handle a few

stick to colt, springfield, kimber, wilson($1800 for the base model)

www.1911forum.com
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:19:53 PM EDT
Thanks for the input guys. I haven't been out to price and compare in a couple of years...

I love the look and feel of stock Kimbers but not sure it they're in my price range for a trade in. I never really looked at SA before but I hear alot of good about them!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:51:00 PM EDT
Exchange it for a G21.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:11:25 AM EDT
Why is it that whenever anyone wants a recommendation on a 1911 the first to toot their horns are the Kimber and Springfield owners? Kimber and SA make tons of cheap guns, and that's about the last kind thing I would say about them. My advice: anything BUT a Kimber or SA.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 3:38:49 AM EDT
I have been very happy with my SA Micro-compact 1911.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 4:35:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 4:35:58 AM EDT by dbshabo]
Check out the S&W1911. Priced in between the Kimber and the SA. Very accurate, well made, tight fit, and American made. S&W is American owned again. They caved to the Klinton crap under British ownership. It's a good gun that a lot of people won't touch because of past indiscretions of the previous owners. Their loss.

Shabo
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 4:37:58 AM EDT
I have 3 1911's all Colt. My fav for CCW is a 1991 New roll mark Commander. Fit and finish are better than any other mass produced 1911 I have see out there. Nice grips from the factory. Nice and tight, shoots very accurate. All for 579 out the door.

Can't beat it.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 5:29:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 8:13:58 AM EDT
I'm fairly new to the 1911 arena, so the bigger names are obviously the first ones that come to mind.

I'm curious about the B List versions (maybe even C and D list) such as Auto Ordinance, Firestorm, Charles Daly, and Armscor. Are they just lemons or is there something to them.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:53:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Langadune:
I'm fairly new to the 1911 arena, so the bigger names are obviously the first ones that come to mind.

I'm curious about the B List versions (maybe even C and D list) such as Auto Ordinance, Firestorm, Charles Daly, and Armscor. Are they just lemons or is there something to them.



If you're looking for a good gun for less money, consider the Argentine Systema. You can find them for around $350 and they are essentially a Colt copy. I've heard good things about them.

I would also not hesitate to buy a quality used 1911. Another way to get a good gun for less money. Many times the used guns have already had their "teething" problems ironed out and are ready to go (though, of course, you should always put 500 rounds or so through a pistol before trusting your life to it).
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 1:10:37 PM EDT
1911Shootist, just as a curiosity point, what do you have against the SA and Kimber model 1911's. I too am new to this style gun and would appreciate it if you would expand on your point a bit more with some specific problems that you've encountered with these guns. Also, why do you consider them to be cheap guns, I got the impression from reading this forum that they were a pretty sure thing as far as quality goes, with the occasional lemon.

thanks
Dan
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 1:17:03 PM EDT
May I ask whats wrong with your Glock 27 that you want to trade it in?
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:12:52 PM EDT
Everyone needs some experience with the 1911.

It teaches you how to clear malfunctions and keep on shooting.

Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:25:18 PM EDT
So keep the Glock as a fail safe, and get toe 1911 to learn how to deal with "jams"
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:26:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 3:42:51 PM EDT by Dodgeram]
So keep the Glock as a fail safe, and get the 1911 to learn how to deal with "jams"
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 4:03:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dodgeram:
May I ask whats wrong with your Glock 27 that you want to trade it in?



Nothing "wrong" with it... it's a good gun. My main complaint is, although it shoots like a dream, it's pretty small in my hand.
I already have a G22 which I love. I have always liked 1911 platform and would like to have one for personal use. On a small town cop's salary, I can't really afford to buy a new gun on a whim without trading out.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 5:17:51 PM EDT
If it’s going to be your first 1911 it’s always my recommendation that you buy a NRM Colt Series 80. Springfield and Kimber make pretty decent guns but if you start with a base Colt you’ll be able to shoot the gun in a ’pure’ form a figure out what your likes and dislikes about the piece are. From there, should you decide to stay with the gun, a stock Colt will make the best platform for a custom gun or parts upgrades/changes.... or at least that is what my experience has been. Fat chance trading straight up for your G27 though.

Link Posted: 12/17/2003 6:45:21 PM EDT
I understand your need to trade instead of buying.

I can't afford to buy all the toys I would like to have so I trade sometimes also.

Too many times I have traded a known good pistol for one I thought I wanted only to find out the one I just traded for was a POS.

If you are not carefull that is what may happen to you on this deal.

If I was going to make the trade you are I would look at the new Dan Wesson line of 1911s. Their cheaper Pointman is one of the best 1911s made for the money and they sell for close to what your Glock is worth.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 9:38:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
Why is it that whenever anyone wants a recommendation on a 1911 the first to toot their horns are the Kimber and Springfield owners?


Try cutting back on your medication. If that doesn't work...double it. The reason so many people on this board recommend Kimber and Springfield is bacause they are completely satisfied with their firearms. When you are satisfied with the performance of your gun then you tend to recommend it to others.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 9:31:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2003 9:32:19 AM EDT by 1911Shootist]
Well, shucks, I'm all out of meds.

I have not owned a ton of SAs and Kimbers, but have owned some. Everyone was a sub $1000 gun and everyone was a jam-o-matic. I had an SA Operator that I bought new, and out of the box it would jam every 50 rounds or so. After break in that increased until I was experiencing an FTF or FTE at least once in every mag. A trip back to SA reduced the jams to every other mag. (And yes, I know about mags.)

Now, if I had unlimited time and money I would be glad to buy dozens of SAs and Kimbers and develop a statistical model of their reliability. But I don't, so after getting burned a few times I stopped trying, and like most shooters, now offer my obviously biased opinion. It is, however, based on actual experience with the guns.

There are plenty of good 1911s out there, I'm sure. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Colt (I own a couple) or a Systema, or any of the inexpensive milspec guns. I personally prefer 1911s from Wilson Combat and Les Baer, but we're talking $1500+ for a basic pistol. My Wilson Protector and Les Baer TRS have been 100-percent reliable and incredibly accurate. If I could say the same for the SAs and Kimbers I've owned I would still own them and sing their praises. But I can't.

Naturally, YMMV.

I sure hope my prescription is refillable.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 5:29:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
I personally prefer 1911s from Wilson Combat and Les Baer, but we're talking $1500+ for a basic pistol. My Wilson Protector and Les Baer TRS have been 100-percent reliable and incredibly accurate.




So one has to spend over $1,500 for a 1911 that is as reliable as a $450 Glock.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 5:44:13 PM EDT
Good point cornbread. I have had ZERO problems with either of my Glocks... but you have to admit, there's just something about the 1911...it's a beautiful thing. I'll still be carrying a Glock for my duty weapons but I really wanna 1911, but one worth having.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 6:16:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2003 6:22:23 AM EDT by cornbread2]
I like the 1911 as much as anyone I have owned some of the best of them and I have been working on them for about 20 years.

One thing is for certian. The Glock is a more reliable pistol.

If you get a good 1911 you will have a fine pistol but there is a very good chance that even if you buy the most expensive Kimber or Springfield it may not be worth a damn out of the box. That is also true with most all brands of 1911's except for the high dollar Wilsons and Les Bher type guns. Even then they will not have the reliability of the Glock in very bad conditions and that is a fact known to to all those with a lot of experience with BOTH designs.

As a part time gunsmith I know how to correct most any problem they could have but if you lack this experience you will not be happy if you you get a lemon.

Link Posted: 12/21/2003 7:30:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cornbread2:

Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
I personally prefer 1911s from Wilson Combat and Les Baer, but we're talking $1500+ for a basic pistol. My Wilson Protector and Les Baer TRS have been 100-percent reliable and incredibly accurate.




So one has to spend over $1,500 for a 1911 that is as reliable as a $450 Glock.



:sigh: Did I say that? I said I *prefer* LBs and WCs. I have a wonderful Colt Lightweight Commander that has been 100 percent reliable too, and I paid about $500 for it.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:25:33 AM EDT
I have an ORM (Old Roll Mark) Colt 1991 which I bought in '98 for $350 (new). I now have around 3000 rounds through it. The loads varied from 200 gr SWC target loads to 260 grain "hunting" loads and everything in between. I've have yet to practice my function failure drills because it never fails. The only thing I've done is replace the stock grip safety with a beaver tail and a commander hammer to match.

It's not a tack driver (5-6" at 50 yards), but for a defense pistol rather than a target pistol it can't be beat.

Kent
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:48:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2003 10:48:45 AM EDT by bear3351]
KIMBER, enough said.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 11:20:03 AM EDT
bait.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:46:44 PM EDT
As a former glock owner you could sell your gun separate from your hicap mags. I saw a deal on gunauction.com for $375 for a glock 17 with 3 hicaps. I sold my glock 17 with 2 10 round mags i got off ebay and sold the 3 hicaps separate. I was able to get $350 for the glock 17 with 2 standard mags and an additional $260.00 for the hicaps. That put me in the range for a new kimber. I loved my glock but if you can only have one handgun it is possible to afford a quality .45 just sell your glock smartly.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 1:29:35 AM EDT
What's with the Glock Nazi's?? The guy is asking about 1911's not why Glocks are the end all pistol. Yeah, yeah, I own two Glocks-- so what.

Langadune just head down to the local shop and handle all the 1911's you can. There are all kinds of materials and wieghts to each that will make a difference in the way the final product feels.

Frankly you are better off saving up a bit and going with any of the "name" makers who also offer the all important WARRANTY. Any gun from any maker can have problems and used guns generally don't come with them.

Cheers
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 6:04:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
Why is it that whenever anyone wants a recommendation on a 1911 the first to toot their horns are the Kimber and Springfield owners? Kimber and SA make tons of cheap guns, and that's about the last kind thing I would say about them. My advice: anything BUT a Kimber or SA.



Say what?

I have two Kimbers and one Colt along with two Norincos and a Ballester. The Colt I have broken twice. The Kimbers are "smoother" and just keep on running. What's wrong with that?

Advice to original poster: Keep the Glock AND get the 1911. You will have a hard time sticking a 1911 in your pocket.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 7:51:36 AM EDT
Be careful, 1911s are like potato chips. You can't have just one.

I think I'm up to eight.

G23c
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 11:05:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 1:49:06 AM EDT by acslick]
At the risk of ridicule for my cheap .45, I picked up a new Llama C/F for $200. Just over 1500 rounds through it and no problems, even after dropping it in the river on a float trip.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 8:41:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Langadune:
I'm thinking seriously about trading my Glock 27 in for a 1911. Anyone have any suggestions for a good one I can pick up on as close to an even trade as possible. BTW, it's just over a year old, less 1000 rounds through it.



1911Shootist, if you'll notice the above question no where in there does it say "Which 1911 can you guys recommend I trade my Glock plus $1000 in cash for?", hence that is why Kimber and Springfield were recommended. Not to mention they both make a damn fine 1911.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 9:23:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dbshabo:
S&W is American owned again. They caved to the Klinton crap under British ownership. It's a good gun that a lot of people won't touch because of past indiscretions of the previous owners. Their loss.
Shabo



As far as I have been able to tell, they either have not or have refused to rescind the agreement they made with the government. Although it appears the current administration is not enforcing it, it remains enforceable for the next (or this) administration when they so choose.

I used to own a Colt Concealed Carry Officer's (CCO) model. It was a great pistol, but for some reason I decided to trade it for a Glock 30. I love my 30, but sometimes wish I still had the CCO. It was concealable, shot well, and a fine pistol. It was a "steal" at a local gun show...the dealer had a "demo model" for $450.

Good luck! Lots of good pistols out there.
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 5:03:45 PM EDT
I own a Kimber and a Springfield. I have several friends who also own Kimbers and Springfields. From my experience both companies make a very good pistol for the money, the Kimber being a better gun IMHO.

True, these do not compare to my Les Baer, but considering the nearly $1000 price difference, it's probably nt fair to compare them in the same setting.

I wouldn't hestiate to recommend either for a beginner.

Good luck and be safe.
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 5:12:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2004 5:16:29 PM EDT by W-W]
Look at the Dan Wesson's. Great value for dollar.

Edited to say...

It's SISTEMA no y in it. BTW-I'm selling I on the EE.
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 10:05:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2004 10:13:41 PM EDT by Green0]
"Kimber and SA make tons of cheap guns, and that's about the last kind thing I would say about them."

I have yet to hold what I consider to be a cheap Kimber. They are quality guns and every Kimber owner I've met at the range was a PROUD Kimber owner happy with his investment.

I bought a Custom Royal Series I used at a show with about 3500Rds through it. It shot 5-7inch 8rd groups at 25yds offhand from a weaver stance. It jammed probably once in 650rds I put through it (slide 1/8in out of battery) I simply pushed the slide forward with my thumb and kept firing.

I still sent it for custom work and when it came back it would shoot 3.5inch 25yd offhand groups with 230grain ball through its Nowlin barrel. Not much of an improvement but hey I can't keep myself from doing it. What can you do? (It would keep them in the head of a silouette though which I like to see).

My TRP Operator would have a 3/8 out of battery FTF on the first round of every mag (using CM bulletproof 8RD mags and Wislon Rodgers 8RD mags.) It wasn't an issue of mag tension it was an issue of it simply would not cycle from slide release, it needed the added velocity of the slide cycleing to help it (probably too much extractor pressure- but why can't SA send them out running 100%?)

Buy a Kimber with a Steel frame, and you won't be sorry. (I have no experience with all the aluminum stuff out there and really don't like aluminum 1911 frames,)

You'ld be better off with a Systema Colt, USGI, or Norinco than a SA Mil-spec IMO




"Why is it that whenever anyone wants a recommendation on a 1911 the first to toot their horns are the Kimber and Springfield owners?"

Well if he said reccomend the best I would say a Hard Chrome plated Les Baer Premier II with S&A magwell, or Hard Chrome Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special, but very few have enough money to want to buy one. They are the best IMO they shoot ragged 1.25-1.75in holes at 25yds and won't jam for anything. But for half the price Kimber is the next best thing. It gives you 99% of the reliability and will shoot 3-5inches at 25yds. Why hard chrome? I HATE RUST. Guns are tools and if you need to use them they will rust- I can't baby the hell out of everything.

My used $1100 Les Baer Premier II with S&A magwell would shoot 1.25inch groups at 25yds with a full 8rd mag from a sandbag.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 5:34:04 AM EDT
If I were going to buy a high end factory production 1911 it would be a Kimber. I think they are much better than the Springfields.

They do tend to break slide stops but since I already know this I would replace it with a known good part and not worry about it.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 5:40:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By W-W:
Look at the Dan Wesson's. Great value for dollar.



I agree. A couple of guys I know have the cheaper Pointman models. They have around $450 in them.

They are quality. More so than most recent Springfields and Colts.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 3:49:19 PM EDT
Are you set on .45? I know, a non-.45 1911 will draw some flames, but consider a Delta Elite. 10mm is a good do-all pistol caliber, from light target loads like the short&weak, to full house medium game/defense loads.
I've heard lots of bad about the DW 10s, but lately they seem to have straightned them out, and they stand behind them. This is purely hearsay, not first hand.
Kimber also has a 10, but I think it is more of a target model, and the Kimber, MIM thing has been beat to death over on 1911forum.com
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 5:17:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2004 5:23:32 PM EDT by TomJefferson]

Originally Posted By acslick:
At the risk of ridicule for my cheap .45, I picked up a new Llama C/F for $200. Just over 1500 rounds through it and no problems, even after dropping it in the river on a float trip.



You know I bought one of these almost as a lark due to the low price. I totally expected to have to change out most of the parts with Colt part kits but the damn thing fires flawlessly. I mean it's no Colt, SA, Kimber or whatever but surprised the shit out of me. It's a little loose so would expect issues with time but so far, about 500 rounds, no complaints.

I own a SA 1911A1 and Kimber ProII both are fine guns but then I haven't found too many 1911s I don't like. Well maybe the bottom of the line SA Mil Spec which just looks cheap. The SA for the money surprised me in both recoil and trigger pull consitency. The Pro II is a honey but it better be for the money. I have friends with Para's and what can I say, they are fine too. I can say the same about the Smiths.

IMHO, it's a proven design and if built right regardless of who makes it, it will function fine. I shot my share of worn out base model Colts in the service and other than rattling like a tank and looking like shit, they worked fine. Though old they were maintained and properly cleaned and oiled.

Recommendation, look around and play with some and buy what you like. IMHO, it's hard to go wrong especially with a known brand name. Regardless of opinions, facts are facts and the 1911 is a battle proven design used and loved by service men for decades. For what it's worth, the SA's seem to be offering many features found in more expensive custom shop guns for less at the moment. Of course that could change.

IMHO, I had one or I had two and this is better cause I have it types, are not good sources for advice.

I'd give you an opinion on the Glock .45 but the only one I ever shot at length jammed every mag so IMHO not representative of the guns as a whole. Not my gun, I figure it was a lemon or had been damaged by the owner.

Tj
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