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Posted: 10/5/2004 8:44:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 8:46:13 AM EST by TheRedGoat]
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 8:46:51 AM EST
g23 cuz i like my bullets to do terrible things
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 8:48:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 8:48:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 9:03:53 AM EST
I assume the 23 is a .40.

A .40 with FMJs vs a 9 with ball? Man, that's a slam dunk decision.

Why do people think that a large capacity magazine makes any difference with this sort of thing?

Some math:

Most shootings < 7 yards.

7 yards gives you 1.5 seconds or less.

If you are decent, you can react, draw, and fire 2 shots in 1.5 sec with ~7 yard accuracy--from an open carry holster.

Conclusion: 15 rounds of 9mm ball will give your attacker something to shoot you with after he's beat the crap out of you.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 9:16:25 AM EST
If all I could choose between was two Glocks, I'd have to be unarmed.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 10:39:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 10:41:03 AM EST by I-M-A-WMD]
Well It's 6-0 in favor of the G23.

I would pick the 23 over the 19. Since both guns IMO are equal in the carry department as far as pistols go and I don't factor magazine capacity over 10 rounds to be important for carry.... The main difference is the type of ammo. I ain't carrying FMJ ammo in my carry gun. IMHO, FMJ just isn't carry ammo unless it's found in a 45. I don't feel comfortable packing my 19 w/ HPs. (Weird, I know, especially since my G19 is spooky accurate)

So what did you choose TRG?

Sly

Link Posted: 10/5/2004 10:59:21 AM EST
What kind of defensive ammo do you usually carry in your G19?
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:14:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By _DR:
If all I could choose between was two Glocks, I'd have to be unarmed.



+1

Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:17:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:20:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:21:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4arc:
What kind of defensive ammo do you usually carry in your G19?



Who, me

FWIW, 124 Grain Hydra-Shok. IIRC, it was 124 grain... I don't carry it much. In fact I should rotate those rounds as they've been around a year or two.

Sly
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:22:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

If it had been an especially cold day, I might have chosen the FMJ in 9mm.

TRG



Why?
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:25:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:
Well It's 6-0 in favor of the G23.

I would pick the 23 over the 19. Since both guns IMO are equal in the carry department as far as pistols go and I don't factor magazine capacity over 10 rounds to be important for carry.... The main difference is the type of ammo. I ain't carrying FMJ ammo in my carry gun. IMHO, FMJ just isn't carry ammo unless it's found in a 45. I don't feel comfortable packing my 19 w/ HPs. (Weird, I know, especially since my G19 is spooky accurate)

So what did you choose TRG?

Sly






G23.

If it had been an especially cold day, I might have chosen the FMJ in 9mm.

TRG



You leave your house when it's cold! It gets to -30 *F here during the winter.... That's an especially cold day.



Sly
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:26:20 AM EST
the G19.......because I'm an idiot and I didn't realize that the 23 was a .40...I thought it was a .45...no .45 glocks for me.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:26:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 11:30:48 AM EST by I-M-A-WMD]

Originally Posted By DonS:

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

If it had been an especially cold day, I might have chosen the FMJ in 9mm.

TRG



Why?



ETA: "My guess is" The cold usually calls for added layers. Sweat shirt, vest, parka, etc. etc. FMJs will give added penetration whereas HPs might/could/will fill with clothing and fail to contact those "sensitive inards"....ETA If you're layering up, so is your advisary.

Sly
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:29:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:

Originally Posted By M4arc:
What kind of defensive ammo do you usually carry in your G19?



Who, me

FWIW, 124 Grain Hydra-Shok. IIRC, it was 124 grain... I don't carry it much. In fact I should rotate those rounds as they've been around a year or two.

Sly



Sorry, the question was meant for TRG but I'm glad you answered too! I usually run the same thing you do but lately I've been running the Carbon Pow'R Ball...I haven't formed an opinion on it yet
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:56:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:38:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:

Originally Posted By DonS:

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

If it had been an especially cold day, I might have chosen the FMJ in 9mm.

TRG



Why?



ETA: "My guess is" The cold usually calls for added layers. Sweat shirt, vest, parka, etc. etc. FMJs will give added penetration whereas HPs might/could/will fill with clothing and fail to contact those "sensitive inards"....ETA If you're layering up, so is your advisary.

Sly



When HPs plug with clothing, they act like ball; including increased penetration. Cold weather means your 9 is even less likely to expand, more reason to switch to a .40 or better yet a .45.

A choice between a 9mm with good JHPs vs a .45 with ball is more difficult. Good 9mm JHPs definitly outperform .45 ball when they expand, but that doesn't always happen. And heavy winter clothing would probably reduce the probability of the 9s expanding.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 3:45:55 PM EST
Big holes makes invisable souls. Ball ammo is for range time. Sucked having to carry ball 9mm in military. Mostly passes right through with little knock down.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:12:59 PM EST
G19, because Glock + .40S&W = KB.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:47:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By _DR:
If all I could choose between was two Glocks, I'd have to be unarmed.



+1

The biggest issue here is your ammo choices aren't great anyway. The performance numbers on the 135 Hydroshocks are not great. Bad penetration numbers. Then with 9mm ball you've got no expansion. Plus, I'm just not a Glock fan......... Get yourself some gold dots or rangers. Check out the ammo section in the AR15 forum for decent carry loads that meet FBI specs.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:27:26 AM EST
G23 with Hydra


If I need more than 10, maybe i shouldn't have been there in the first place


- BG
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:36:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:24:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
IMHO, a defensive round should NOT exit the target. If it does, then you havea round travelling downrange that you are NOT in control of.

If you hit someone with that round, you are liable.
TRG



Yet you were considering 9mm ball?

I don't believe that you can obtain a round that will deal with every individual (say, a large body builder at a bad angle with his arm between you and the center of his chest) that will not overpenetrait on some other individual (a skinny little guy face on, chest exposed). That's to say, I don't believe the "no exit" requirement is realistic.

Furthermore, the biggest issue is missing the target, not overpenetration, IMO.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:28:26 AM EST
Neither.
1. I would never have a plastic pistol in my house.
2. I don't believe either of those pistols is chambered in .45ACP?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:32:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:33:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:42:46 PM EST
Screw it!

I'd grab a shotgun or a rifle.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:30:54 PM EST
Get both!

Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:25:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By tivoli410:
Get both!




He's got your there.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:27:05 AM EST
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