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Posted: 8/19/2005 8:20:33 AM EDT
This probably has been brought up before but a search yielded nothing so...

I was looking scanning the handgun display cases at the local Gander Mountain and I noticed that the price of a new HK USP was maybe $100 more than a new metal framed Sig. I always hear about how great the USP is but the drawbacks are the price and availability. Gander Mt. has maybe 4 USPs in stock and priced not much higher than a SIG. So which is better?

I think both are probably excellent handguns but what are the pros and cons of each. If I had the money I would own both but I have no money so I will have to own neither for now.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 8:32:54 AM EDT
First, you are shopping at Gander Mountain for a gun. Very seldom have I ever seen a reasonable price on a gun at Gander. You'd probably be better off going to a gunshow and getting it there. I prefer Sig to HK, it just feels better. You need to evaluate your needs, what do you plan on using the gun for? Caliber? Sigs can be had fairly reasonably especially if they're certified pre-owned. Most are LE trade-in guns that have been carried much and shot little. I got my 220 (.45 ACP) for $490 out the door. It's the best handgun I have, it truly is. If you like an external safety then get the USP, if not, Sig might be for you. How many magazines do you want? HK mags are pretty darn expensive, usually about $40 a piece. Sig 220 mags and 226 mags can be had for $20. Try to find somewhere to shoot them both and make your decision by which one works best for you. MJD
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 8:51:56 AM EDT
Oh Gee...

BMW = HK

Mercedes = Sig

Um.... I ... guess if it were I... I'd go BMW.


It really comes down which you shoot / feel best with handling. For me.. I shot in the Police Academy with the Sig 226 - 585 out of 600 and the H&K USP - 593 out of 600. In general I perfer the H&K but you know what... they are both fantastic handguns.

In my book the con to the USP is the safety selector (Unless you change it out to a variant 3 / Which makes it Sig like) Though you can also cock & lock a USP like a 1911; also the USP geometry follows that of a 1911. From my experience with Sigs (220, 226, 229s) all have / can get ammo finky. Especially with hard primers such as are used in Subgun ammo. (Click no bang)



Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:05:25 AM EDT
I have never owned a USP. I currently own 4 Sigs. I shoot both well. I prefer the Sig for 3 reasons:

1. No external saftey
2. Natural pointability in my hand
3. Cost

In the end you need which ever one is the "extension of your hand" and that you shoot well (and that you can afford). Go to a range where they rent them, and rent them and shoot them back to back and you will know which one is right for you.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:17:30 AM EDT
I had a USP in 9mm and it was a great gun. If I had the money and went out now though I would probably get a SIG in .45.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:48:37 AM EDT
I think both are great handguns. That is why I am a very happy SIG and HK owner.
If your on a budget look into the refurbished SIGs that CDNN is selling. Used SIG 220s for $379!!!

They also have SIG 229s and 226s if you are looking for a 9mm or .40.

Don't buy at Gander unless you want to pay full retail. Shop around, check out a gun show, and if you can't find a SIG or HK for a good price take the CDNN catalog to a FFL and ask them to order you one.


Link Posted: 8/19/2005 12:42:52 PM EDT
I have a USP 45 fullsize and a Sig 229 in .40S&W. I really cant pick one over the other. I think that you will be happy with either. Though my favorite is my Walther P99
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 12:47:58 PM EDT
Both are extremely high quality handguns. Go with whichever suits your hand best. For me it's the Sig (226 series).
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 12:58:31 PM EDT
both are great guns

the SIG is more old school (overall) with thier old school all-metal (except for the polymer line) frames that just feels good to hold while shooting

the trigger pull is also VERY nice and smooth (for a DA)

the HK i fired was not as smooth on the trigger (they say that the tac and competition modles w/ match triggers are great though) and the polymer frame and nicer controls made it very nice

overall, i would get the HK

you can get used, excellent condition SIGs just about anywheres, but HKs are tough to get for a good price

h/w, SIG mags ARE cheaper and more available.........

get BOTH!
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:04:32 PM EDT
I owned a Sig P-220 & sold it.

I own three H&Ks & won't part with any of them.

Not to say Sigs are a POS or anything, but H&K is a cut above, IMO. As for availibility, they're easily found at gunshows & gun shops.

My .o2
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:51:10 PM EDT
Only buy pistols at Gander when they have a sale and you have priced them elsewhere

Personally , I'm goin shoppin for a SIG tomorrow - will let you guys know how I do
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:11:58 PM EDT
I like the decocking controls of the Sig better, I like the non brick like grip of the Sig better, I like the rails on the Sig better, I like the mag release of the Sig better. I like the price of the Sig better. I sold a USP Tactical for P226R and could not be happier. Both are accurate and reliable and too big and wide. Both have too high a bore axis.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 5:52:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 5:54:28 PM EDT by dullh]
Both are TOO big and TOO expensive...my vote is:


NEITHER! Get a GLOCK!
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 7:59:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dullh:
Both are TOO big



Odd I find my fullsize USP 9mm as easy to carry as the Glock 19 I used to have and I find my USP .45 much easier to grip and carry than the Glock 20 I had.

How are they too big again (HK's at least)?
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 8:01:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 8:08:06 PM EDT by Death_006]

Originally Posted By dullh:
Both are TOO big and TOO expensive...my vote is:

NEITHER! Get a GLOCK!







Jesus. Thats the most BS I have ever seen in my entire time on this board.

A Glock doesn't even compare to the beauty of an HK or SIG. A Glock would be like a Chevy/Ford while the HK and SIG are your German luxury cars, BMW. When my parents said that they would buy me a pistol in 2003, I had narrowed the choices down quickly, HK and SIG.

I had the choice between a SIG P220, P226, and an HK USP all new. While I didn't have the chance to fire all three of my choices I did spend three trips to that local gun shop fondling all of them. In the end I chose the HK USP in .40 S&W, based purely on the following;

1. Grip. The USP offers a very, very secure grip with the use of rough texturing in the polymer. You also get a extended trigger guard for gloves. The result? You ain't gonna let go of this bad boy.

2. The Variant. I can configure my USP nine, count nine different ways. Using only variant one I can carry my USP cocked and locked. I can carry my USP in DA first shot mode like the SIG, with or without a safety, all with only ONE (1) single variant, and there are eight (8) more.

3. Sight. This is very objective since some find the dot and stripe quick on the SIG. The USP features pyramid sights to sub-consciously align the sights quicker.

4. Recoil Reduction System. This helps counter the polymer frame and the high bore axis of the USP. However, more importantly, it extends the service life of the pistol greatly.

5. The USP is actually made in Germany with REAL German proof marks. The SIG P226 I handled didn't have them and that also helped make my decision.

Both are excellent pistols. When you are comparing such excellent firearms it becomes really difficult to determine a clear cut winner. You have to become really nit picky. In my opinion, the USP comes out just a teeny tiny bit above the SIG because it has just a few more extra features than the SIG. But you get what you pay for and it is really true, both SIG and HK make perhaps some of the finest production handguns.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 8:02:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dullh:
Both are TOO big and TOO expensive...my vote is:


NEITHER! Get a GLOCK!




I have SIGs and HKs and like them both very much.
I found Glocks to be awkward and too bulky for me.
As for cost ........ you get what you pay for.

Link Posted: 8/19/2005 9:00:54 PM EDT
I've got a Sig P220 and a H&K USP C, both are .45 ACP. I like the feel and handling of the Sig the best. Also I don't care for the bobbed hammer on the H&K. But, I'm keeping both of them.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 9:45:37 PM EDT
I like HK USP's a lot. I'd love to get a USP Tac in .45 someday. Heres why I probably won't anytime soon though. A Sig P220R or ST is less expensive new (though still pretty expensive), mags are MUCH less expensive, and its just as accurate.

Sigs fit my hand better, though I like the way both feel in the hand. None of my Sigs has EVER had a weapon or ammo related malfunction of any kind, and I am not good to them as far as regular maintenence.

New factory mags for all Sigs costs about $20 less per mag than HK.

Used Sigs that perform every bit as well as new can be had in abundance for under $500. So now you can have the gun, 5 extra mags, 2 holsters and ammo for the cost of new.

The polygolal rifling in the HK can lead to problems if you ever shoot cast bullets.

Not saying I don't like HK, I do, and when a good deal for one comes along, I will snag it, but Sigs are better pistols, even if money isn't an option. And when money is a concern, used Sigs are much easier to find, and very good values.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:59:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dullh:
Both are TOO big and TOO expensive...my vote is:


NEITHER! Get a GLOCK!



At this point, I'd like to turn this around, and point out the fact that they are not too expensive...you're just too cheap.

I perfer HK simply because of the versatility.

You can carry hammer cocked or decocked...with the safety on or off in any position.

Sigs...well, they only have a decocker, and I like a consistent trigger pull. Therefore, HK gets my vote, hammer back safety on.

Scott
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:11:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Marksman14:

Originally Posted By dullh:
Both are TOO big and TOO expensive...my vote is:


NEITHER! Get a GLOCK!



I perfer HK simply because of the versatility.

You can carry hammer cocked or decocked...with the safety on or off in any position.

Sigs...well, they only have a decocker, and I like a consistent trigger pull. Therefore, HK gets my vote, hammer back safety on.

Scott


Well said the same reasons why I prefer H&K. Also it came down to just personal preference. I have shot different types of sigs and they don't feel as nice as the USP.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:23:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 9:05:00 AM EDT by warhorse]
I just picked up this gem yesterday, took it strait to the range, and I'm estatic. Accurate and smooth. I paid $672 from CDNN + $10 for shipping and $25 for the transfer.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 10:40:51 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 11:30:28 AM EDT
HK and Sig make completely different pistols. So to compare them to eachother in the better than the other sense is point less.

Let me break it down:

HK:
A gun with a saftey and polymer lower.

SIG
No saftey all metal.

Depends on the person. I like a safe on my weapons. HK wins
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:47:21 PM EDT
Nothing beats a Sig.

I like HK's too, but sigs have my vote.
Love meh p228
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 2:55:38 PM EDT
According to the members on 10-8Forums.com, SIG has been experiencing significant production issues lately.

www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5917&an=0&page=1#5917

A pre-owned SIG (by that I mean the older production models) should be fine though.

In my opinion, go with the one that you feel most comfortable with.

This is a question that you have to answer for yourself.

Regards,

Justin
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:24:44 PM EDT
HK is a $550 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:28:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 3:42:29 PM EDT by twonami]
get both, it's the only way to be sure

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:31:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 3:32:09 PM EDT by nationwide]

Originally Posted By twonami:
get both



I haved owned both.

The only factor that will make me choose one over the other is how I feel at that moment. You cannot make a legitimate argument that one is better than the other.

It's simply a matter of personal preference, and of course, how they fit your hand.

I look forward to buying more of each later on down the road...
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:39:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:
HK is a $550 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.




I seemed to have missed the memo that made you the deciding poobah on H&K values & pricing. Care to post it for all of us to read, please????
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:46:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By lu380:
HK is a $550 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.




I seemed to have missed the memo that made you the deciding poobah on H&K values & pricing. Care to post it for all of us to read, please????



Oh, I forgot - YMMV.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:23:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 4:24:30 PM EDT by Death_006]

Originally Posted By lu380:
HK is a $550 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.



No it is your opinion and until your produce proof that it is fact, it will remain so. Go play with your GLOCK and let the intelligent people with actual experience post their opinions so the topic starter can make a better informed decision. I posted some actual information on page one in my post so that I could help someone out. You have posted nothing at all aside from an opinion that is likely to stir up the flamming. Great job!
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:36:41 PM EDT
I have been predominantly a SIG guy, but I'm thinking seriously of adding a fullsize USP to the collection if I run across a good deal on one.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:40:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death_006:

Originally Posted By lu380:
HK is a $550 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.



No it is your opinion and until your produce proof that it is fact, it will remain so. Go play with your GLOCK and let the intelligent people with actual experience post their opinions so the topic starter can make a better informed decision. I posted some actual information on page one in my post so that I could help someone out. You have posted nothing at all aside from an opinion that is likely to stir up the flamming. Great job!



I base my opinion on my personal experience with HK. I have owned four HK's over the years (I keep selling them and buying them again), and have had some issues with their pistols. I don't own a Glock right now.

Let me rephrase what I said in my last post.

I don't believe that HK makes a product that is superior in any way to other pistols that are available for $500.

Now I'm off to play with my Glock
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:45:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:

Originally Posted By Death_006:

Originally Posted By lu380:
HK is a $550 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.



No it is your opinion and until your produce proof that it is fact, it will remain so. Go play with your GLOCK and let the intelligent people with actual experience post their opinions so the topic starter can make a better informed decision. I posted some actual information on page one in my post so that I could help someone out. You have posted nothing at all aside from an opinion that is likely to stir up the flamming. Great job!



I base my opinion on my personal experience with HK. I have owned four HK's over the years (I keep selling them and buying them again), and have had some issues with their pistols. I don't own a Glock right now.

Let me rephrase what I said in my last post.

I don't believe that HK makes a product that is superior in any way to other pistols that are available for $500.

Now I'm off to play with my Glock



Well at least you corrected yourself, thats a start.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:58:46 PM EDT
I sold my H&K USPC .40 to buy a Sig P229 in .40. I simply shoot it better. I am so so with the H&K on a combat course. Too much muzzle flip. I am much better with the Sig.

Bob
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:24:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By lu380:
HK is a $550 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.




I seemed to have missed the memo that made you the deciding poobah on H&K values & pricing. Care to post it for all of us to read, please????



Oh, I forgot - YMMV.




That's silly... Okay lets play this goofy game. The price of a mill steel handgun such as the 1911 is $295 .... Thats a fact. Then they sell it for $750. So what...

I think the fact is this topic really ended on page 1.

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:36:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 7:39:35 PM EDT by dullh]
youz guyz is soooo sensitive...I must have hit a nerve! Here's my apology:

BOTH SUCK! GET A GLOCK!



Originally Posted By lu380:
HK is a $5.50 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.




There fixed it for 'ya!
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:16:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 10:40:58 PM EDT by adair_usmc]

Originally Posted By dullh:
youz guyz is soooo sensitive...I must have hit a nerve! Here's my apology:

BOTH SUCK! GET A GLOCK!



Originally Posted By lu380:
HK is a $5.50 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.




There fixed it for 'ya!






Now there is a person who has never seen a quality handgun in his life

Don't compromise, and get an HK. Cant say anything about a SIG, never shot one personally, but definately stay away from a Glock hand grenade

Anyone who would say that a Glock is a superior weapon would not know a quality firearm if it bit them in the ass.

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:38:44 PM EDT
My vote right now is for the HK P2000. I like it better than the USPs and Sigs.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:53:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 9:53:46 PM EDT by MST2]

Originally Posted By dullh:
youz guyz is soooo sensitive...I must have hit a nerve! Here's my apology:

BOTH SUCK! GET A GLOCK!



Originally Posted By lu380:
HK is a $5.50 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.




There fixed it for 'ya!



+1


Glock is the superior weapon.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 12:16:12 AM EDT
Weapons I will get in the next year:

H&K USP .45ACP (either full size or compact)

H&K G36C 5.56mm (form 1 SBR'ed / semi only)

Nuff said........
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 8:02:20 AM EDT
This debate is more intense then Ford v Chevy H&K
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 8:52:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mark71:
This debate is more intense then Ford v Chevy
H&K > All



Ok, here is an analogy for that then


Glock -



SIG -


HK -


Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:29:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 9:30:09 AM EDT by warhorse]

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:

Originally Posted By Mark71:
This debate is more intense then Ford v Chevy
H&K > All



Ok, here is an analogy for that then


Glock -
www.sannaranch.com/Car-Explosion.JPG


SIG -
www.autobytel.com/images/previews/05MB-SLK/400/2005-mercedes-benz-slk-front.jpg

HK -
nfs.hosted.game7.de/nfs2/fahr/nfs2-mclaren-f1.jpg





Aw c'mon. I just bought an H&K full size .45 and I agree it's awsome. But I also have a Glock 30 I use as my carry weapon and it's a great weapon too. Very accurate and very dependable. The sub compact Glock conceals very easily with shorts and a tee. And it's hard to beat the 10 rd capasity for a .45.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:30:33 AM EDT
Thanks for your replies guys, eventually I will get both. For now the most realistic next handgun for me is a Sig Pro. I'd love a real Sig or an HK but the money just isn't there.

Another thing, why do Glock snobs feel they need to hijack every thread about handguns. I ask a question about HK and Sig and I get people in here telling me to get a Glock. That fine if you like Glocks, but this thread has nothing to do with Glocks. I already have made my choice about internal hammer DAO pistols, and that is why the only centerfire pistol I currently own is a Springfield Armory XD-9.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:35:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By --bullseye--:


Another thing, why do Glock snobs feel they need to hijack every thread about handguns? I ask a question about HK and Sig and I get people in here telling me to get a Glock. That fine if you like Glocks, but this thread has nothing to do with Glocks. I already have made my choice about internal hammer DAO pistols, and that is why the only centerfire pistol I currently own is a Springfield Armory XD-9.



Thats a good question. I did my best to help fight them off for ya though, didnt want your decision to be clouded by idiocy.

Hope you like your new Sig Pro.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:36:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MST2:

Originally Posted By dullh:
youz guyz is soooo sensitive...I must have hit a nerve! Here's my apology:

BOTH SUCK! GET A GLOCK!



Originally Posted By lu380:
HK is a $5.50 gun being sold for $700-$800 dollars. This is a fact, not an opinion.




There fixed it for 'ya!



+1


Glock is the superior weapon.



Please support your claim with facts.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:16:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 10:20:14 AM EDT by MST2]

Originally Posted By --bullseye--:
Thanks for your replies guys, eventually I will get both. For now the most realistic next handgun for me is a Sig Pro. I'd love a real Sig or an HK but the money just isn't there.

Another thing, why do Glock snobs feel they need to hijack every thread about handguns. I ask a question about HK and Sig and I get people in here telling me to get a Glock. That fine if you like Glocks, but this thread has nothing to do with Glocks. I already have made my choice about internal hammer DAO pistols, and that is why the only centerfire pistol I currently own is a Springfield Armory XD-9.



Becuase HK and Sig snobs hijack all the Glock threads. Overall value and quality compared to any other handgun on the market. Glock is it. HK and SIg are fine weapons, but Glock is better IMHO and I have been shooting guns for 22 years. And yes, I have shot and/or owned a HK and a Sig. So all you airsoft HK fanatics can learn something here. Im out and done with this thread.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:14:33 AM EDT
I have shot both the USP and a Sig 226 both in .40S&W and I personally like the Sig better. The grip is not as rough on the Sig so for my purposes ( indoor range trips) I do not see the real need for something rough. The Sig does have enough texture though that you will not drop it. I also have no real need to carry cocked and locked so I do not need that feature. The recoil reduction system of the USP feels to me like the gun recoils twice for every one shot which makes target aquisition for follow up shots harder. The way the USP is made to "lead the eye" toward the sights actually draws my eye up and over the sights. The dots are nice but I shoot better with the Sig sights. I think both are good quality handguns. Since I recently purchased a Sig 226 I would probably buy a USP next just to complete the collection of fine handguns. As for the German thing, you have some serious mangina problems if you think that everything from cars to guns needs to be made in Germany. The Berettas are not made in Germany and neither are Colts and apparently our government thinks that they are good enough to supply our troops with them.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 1:01:49 PM EDT
I don't think anyone is surprised that the Glock fanatics have the lowest reading comprehension out of all gun lovers.hould
Glock lover:
"Glock 19 is the best gun ever!!11!"

If only there was a way to trap them in the Glock forum.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 1:09:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 1:18:17 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By KillAgain:
HK and Sig make completely different pistols. So to compare them to eachother in the better than the other sense is point less.

Let me break it down:

HK:
A gun with a saftey and polymer lower.

SIG
No saftey all metal.

Depends on the person. I like a safe on my weapons. HK wins



For the same reasons, Sig wins for me.
I don't like a thumb safety, I like all metal. Have had a few HKs and Sigs. Both reliable, excellent pistols. I still have the Sigs, don't have the HKs anymore. I like the HK pistols in general, but the Sigs ergo's suit me more. Just more natural.
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