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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/26/2005 10:42:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2005 10:46:07 AM EDT by FN-TPS]





New S&W Pistola Porn

Why do I get the feeling that the "Strategic Partnership" is about to come to an abrupt , screeching halt?

Link Posted: 7/26/2005 11:42:37 AM EDT
It's astounding that the SW1911 line and this abortion come from the same company.

Hideous.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 11:58:49 AM EDT
A few observations from what I can see:

- Mag catch is not ambidextrous.
- While it appears there is no external hammer, there is a huge pointy hand guard at the rear of the pistol
- Picatinny under barrel mount
- Polymer frame
- Polymer trigger
- All releases/buttons are protected by frame ridges.
- Trigger safety ala Glock
- Slide comes off similar to USP (pull slide back halfway and pull pin)
- Adjustable backstrap
- Loaded chamer indicator
- Backstop for trigger (can't pull so hard you break it).
- 9mm/.40 S&W sized frame (particular model is a .40)
- Maybe an optional side safety/decocker (USP style)
- Grip angle is really up&down, not a raked as a 1911 or so.

Interesting. I hope the trigger take up is revised much more from the P99. I hate that trigger dearly.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 12:03:07 PM EDT
I think the mag catch is reversible - the raised area and cutout looks to be exactly the same.

I also think it will takedown like a SIG, lock the slide back, rotate the lever, then pull the slide off the front.

The "tail" is sure odd looking.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 12:34:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2005 12:35:10 PM EDT by FN-TPS]
The Mag catch is reversable.

Looks like they've incorperated the dreaded "gun safety lock" lock as well...it's that hole with the arrow around it twards the rear of the frame.

Smith says the trigger is supposed to be greatly improved (possibly the reason for the break with Walther.)

It's going to have interchangable grip panel's, that are rubber overmolded, like a hogue grip.

There's supposed to be a .40 version released first...followed by a 9mm, a .357 sig and...A .45.

Mag capacity for the .40 is going to be 15+1
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 1:12:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 1:15:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2005 1:15:47 PM EDT by PBIR]
looks like they retained that crappy sigma trigger.


It's astounding that the SW1911 line and this abortion come from the same company.

Hideous.



+1
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 2:21:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 2:40:29 PM EDT
It is a brave thing to come out with a design. S&W is due a good semi auto; how long have they been trying? Anyhow... what are the chances S&W will have a 45 ACP or a 10mm?
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 2:54:41 PM EDT
If they tame that "beavertail" and maybe add a little more agressive checkering or something to the grip, I'd buy the 9mm in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 2:58:43 PM EDT
...
Sure is hard to look at.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 3:23:09 PM EDT
Not a damn bit uglier than any other polymer framed unit and in my opinion a damn sight better than some. The woodpecker looking frame extension needs to go though and the mag release should be ambi instead of reversible. Slide looks like it dismounts sig-style to me .15 rounds of .40 means 10+ rounds of .45. I'd buy one.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 3:27:06 PM EDT
I'll take one, provided it works!



I could care less what my gun looks like.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 3:27:43 PM EDT
What's with the waves on the slide? That looks retarded.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 3:46:38 PM EDT
Looks like they moved the trigger guard back far enough to take Everybodies taclight.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 3:52:13 PM EDT
Those guys cannot make a good looking semi-auto to save their lives.

Bob
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 3:58:45 PM EDT
Yep...that definitely does not look good. It came from Massachusetts
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 3:58:46 PM EDT
Why is it that nobody can design a gun with a low bore axis anymore?

And yes, that's the Sigma trigger, and yes its crap. Dammit put a decent trigger on there at least.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 4:05:52 PM EDT
Gaston Glock, speaking from a luxurious and secluded resort villa in Austria, had this to say:

"No comment!"
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 6:11:38 PM EDT
It has some good looking sights.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 6:19:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2005 6:21:27 PM EDT by RSF45]
Nice FN clone.
Why the fuck does S&W copy everybody's design?
First Glock, then Walther, now FN.
Doesn't look too "stainless' to me either....
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 6:29:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2005 6:30:41 PM EDT by wolffie]
It's interesting. I'll withhold comment until I get to see one in person. It doesn't look like a clone, but they have incorporated a lot of the recent trends in handguns. If they can finally get a decent trigger, than they may have something. So the real question... Is that a SuperOcean on that wrist?
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 7:51:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2005 7:59:58 PM EDT by FN-TPS]
It may look like the Sigma trigger, but the question is, what kind of spring work and moving parts is it attached to? As I understand it. It's not the Sigma trigger internaly.

It's supposed to have a lower barrel axis than the 99's as well.

As for not looking like Stainless...It's Melonite over Stainless, just like the S&W 99 and Sigma Slides. Try googling up Burlington's Melonite process some time and you'll see, that the version they do on stainless steel is some tuff stuff....they use it on high corrosion risk parts in nuclear reactors.

Link Posted: 7/26/2005 7:57:17 PM EDT
looks sort of like a fish
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 8:05:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RSF45:
Nice FN clone.
Why the fuck does S&W copy everybody's design?
First Glock, then Walther, now FN.
Doesn't look too "stainless' to me either....






Yeah, I think you may be on to something there.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 8:40:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By RSF45:
Nice FN clone.
Why the fuck does S&W copy everybody's design?
First Glock, then Walther, now FN.
Doesn't look too "stainless' to me either....



img242.imageshack.us/img242/7827/detailstrip2full2af.jpg
radiant8.dyndns.org/49.gif

Yeah, I think you may be on to something there.



my thoughts exactly. the FN is ugly too, but at least it's original
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 9:12:09 PM EDT


kinda reminds me of an ultrastar/megastar as far as the level of sheer ugliness....

and it sure does look alot like the fn gun.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 3:53:40 AM EDT
looks like something that would be imported by Charles Daily...
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 5:02:33 PM EDT
The big "IF" is what the trigger pull will be like.

If it's 5 lb with minimal reset, like a Glock's, then Smith will finally have its Glock beater. The grip looks much more comfortable, the beavertail is a good thing (Glocks will chew your hand if you use a high hold), and steel magazines will insert/fall more freely than Glock's plastic.

I own a Glock 35 & 22 and if this M&P has a similar trigger, I'll be buying one.

Link Posted: 7/29/2005 6:06:35 PM EDT
OK, who has the ten foot pole to touch it and is fool brave enough to buy the first generation?

wganz

Link Posted: 7/29/2005 9:57:21 PM EDT
My Sig is certainly not worried about being replaced with it.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 12:29:25 AM EDT
They can keep it as far as I am concerned.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 10:19:03 AM EDT
I can't wait to see it in person.

I'll with hold my thoughts until then.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 11:03:02 AM EDT
Don't be surprised if this thread gets the panties of a guy from American Backyard forums in a HUGE bunch....

www.assaultweb.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=004211;p=0



Personally,
I think it's hideous. Not to mention calling it the M&P is pretty freakin' stupid since those are mighty big shoes to fill.


R
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 1:44:35 PM EDT
I think it looks interesting, and I like the serations and the beavertail. Its silhouette does bare a striking resemblance to the FN, hopefully it performs that well. It looks like they could have taken cues from a lot of pistols; I see some USP in the slide, and muzzle end reminds me of the Mauser M2. This is all just looks though; I'd like to get one to the range and see what's what.

Cheers
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 12:10:19 PM EDT


its got the HK trigger guard look too i think
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 1:10:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By p-dog:
The big "IF" is what the trigger pull will be like.

If it's 5 lb with minimal reset, like a Glock's, then Smith will finally have its Glock beater. The grip looks much more comfortable, the beavertail is a good thing (Glocks will chew your hand if you use a high hold), and steel magazines will insert/fall more freely than Glock's plastic.

I own a Glock 35 & 22 and if this M&P has a similar trigger, I'll be buying one.




When a gun can eat 180,000 rounds in torture testing with the same barrel and still maintain 2" groups at 25 yards, even after having been sunk in the ocean for a month, I will consider a competitive alternative, but it takes a lot to be a Glock beater
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 3:38:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By p-dog:
The big "IF" is what the trigger pull will be like.

If it's 5 lb with minimal reset, like a Glock's, then Smith will finally have its Glock beater. The grip looks much more comfortable, the beavertail is a good thing (Glocks will chew your hand if you use a high hold), and steel magazines will insert/fall more freely than Glock's plastic.

I own a Glock 35 & 22 and if this M&P has a similar trigger, I'll be buying one.




When a gun can eat 180,000 rounds in torture testing with the same barrel and still maintain 2" groups at 25 yards, even after having been sunk in the ocean for a month, I will consider a competitive alternative, but it takes a lot to be a Glock beater



Good I'd rather buy an American gun over a foreign one any way. I eagerly await the finalized product.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 4:29:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTwin60:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By p-dog:
The big "IF" is what the trigger pull will be like.

If it's 5 lb with minimal reset, like a Glock's, then Smith will finally have its Glock beater. The grip looks much more comfortable, the beavertail is a good thing (Glocks will chew your hand if you use a high hold), and steel magazines will insert/fall more freely than Glock's plastic.

I own a Glock 35 & 22 and if this M&P has a similar trigger, I'll be buying one.




When a gun can eat 180,000 rounds in torture testing with the same barrel and still maintain 2" groups at 25 yards, even after having been sunk in the ocean for a month, I will consider a competitive alternative, but it takes a lot to be a Glock beater



Good I'd rather buy an American gun over a foreign one any way. I eagerly await the finalized product.



So buy a Ruger.

I dont suppose you know how many Americans work at the glock plant in Smyrna, GA, and what is it they do.

And lets not forget what good ol' American S&W did to undermine the rights of Americans to own guns during the Clinton era
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 5:31:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
And lets not forget what good ol' American S&W did to undermine the rights of Americans to own guns during the Clinton era



True.

Link Posted: 7/31/2005 6:48:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By p-dog:
(Glocks will chew your hand if you use a high hold)


Good point. This DOES happen to me every time, as I bury that Glock in the web of my hand. Gotta break myself of that habit.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:28:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wganz:
OK, who has the ten foot pole to touch it and is fool brave enough to buy the first generation?

wganz




The question remains who is going to be the guinea pig and buy the first one??

wganz

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:30:21 AM EDT
I'll reserve my opinion until I see one in use or get to shoot it myself. If it's reliable and has a decent trigger, I might get one, regardless of what it looks like.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:54:19 AM EDT
It's not sexy, but who gives a fuck? It's a black polymer pistol. They're ALL ugly, when you get right down to it.

If it runs, if it feels good in your hand, it's a good pistol.

I can't count the number of "pretty" pistols that feel like crap in my hand, so I'll wait and see.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:24:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CavalryJim:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
And lets not forget what good ol' American S&W did to undermine the rights of Americans to own guns during the Clinton era



True.




Those were different owners then!
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:45:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RSF45:
Nice FN clone.
Why the fuck does S&W copy everybody's design?
First Glock, then Walther, now FN.
Doesn't look too "stainless' to me either....



I'm glad I didn't have to ask a stupid question like, "why does it say 'stainless' while the gun is black?"

I love my old S&W 4006 and won't ever sell it. But I spent a few days with a S&W 1st gen Sigma, which is why I only trust Glock for polymer firearms.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 4:38:43 PM EDT

Good point. This DOES happen to me every time, as I bury that Glock in the web of my hand. Gotta break myself of that habit.


The high hold is the proper grip, so DON'T break that habit!

I live with my G22 chewing my hand. My G35 has a tang added by Robar.

Keep the high grip & get the tang/grip reduction by Robar, or get a 1911 with a beavertail, or wait for the new M&P.

Glock has received a lot of complaints about their grip shape, but they refuse to do anything about it. Reminds me of Colt in the late '80's & early '90's. They didn't listen & now there's 100 people making 1911's & giving the people what they want. It looks like Smith is looking to do the same thing to Glock by offering a better grip shape & sights. Some business lessons and history lessons are never learned.

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 4:47:31 PM EDT

When a gun can eat 180,000 rounds in torture testing with the same barrel and still maintain 2" groups at 25 yards, even after having been sunk in the ocean for a month, I will consider a competitive alternative, but it takes a lot to be a Glock beater


I agree that the M&P will have a lot to prove to be as reliable and durable as a Glock. All I'm saying that if it is, and the trigger pull is good (~5 lbs with minimal reset), then we have a winner.

By the way, while my G35 will group 2" at 25 yards with the right ammo, damn few Glocks are consitently anywhere near that level of accuracy. Try 3" +.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:38:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 5:39:03 PM EDT by JaketheSnake]

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By RSF45:
Nice FN clone.
Why the fuck does S&W copy everybody's design?
First Glock, then Walther, now FN.
Doesn't look too "stainless' to me either....



img242.imageshack.us/img242/7827/detailstrip2full2af.jpg
radiant8.dyndns.org/49.gif

Yeah, I think you may be on to something there.


THANK YOU, I counldn't picture the gun It looked like.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:18:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By VTwin60:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By p-dog:
The big "IF" is what the trigger pull will be like.

If it's 5 lb with minimal reset, like a Glock's, then Smith will finally have its Glock beater. The grip looks much more comfortable, the beavertail is a good thing (Glocks will chew your hand if you use a high hold), and steel magazines will insert/fall more freely than Glock's plastic.

I own a Glock 35 & 22 and if this M&P has a similar trigger, I'll be buying one.




When a gun can eat 180,000 rounds in torture testing with the same barrel and still maintain 2" groups at 25 yards, even after having been sunk in the ocean for a month, I will consider a competitive alternative, but it takes a lot to be a Glock beater



Good I'd rather buy an American gun over a foreign one any way. I eagerly await the finalized product.



So buy a Ruger.

I dont suppose you know how many Americans work at the glock plant in Smyrna, GA, and what is it they do.

And lets not forget what good ol' American S&W did to undermine the rights of Americans to own guns during the Clinton era



+1
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:19:35 PM EDT
I still think those Sigma style triggers are unsafe. Anything snagging the trigger from the side defeats the safety. At least on a Glock, a protrusion was to extend to the middle of the trigger.

Think of the all the tight fitting Kydex holsters or lose straps, do you really want that kind of trigger. Heck, someone supposedly had an AD with a jacket drawstrings in their holster with a Glock. This is even more prone to such bizarre issues.
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