Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/10/2005 5:14:35 PM EDT
i just built up a pretty little HD shotgun (win 1300, choate folding stock, extended mag, sidesaddle, and oddly enough, full choke...) and gave it to a co-worker, originally intended to be a trade for an exercise machine.

harumph.

i have become one with my beer-belly, and since he said he's got a s&w 4506 and wanted to get rid of it, i'd be interested. never owned a 4506. i like 1911s, have 3 of 'em, couple of sigs, 3 or 4 wheelguns, but i'm intrigued with the smith.

input? anyone have yays or nays for it? i'd probably give him boot, say, 200 or so cash. stainless steel gun, which i normally don't like due to reflection possibilities in the dark, but other than that, do you guys have any input?

thanks for your .02!
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:46:24 PM EDT
I build custom 1911's for clients, but, I really like S&W automatic pistols. The 4506 is very durable, strong and somewhat 'clunky' in feel compared to a 1911. They can be made to shoot very well and will last a very long time. I have 1 S&W model 59 that I have owned for amost 30 years. I have fired a lot of ammo through it and it has never failed to feed, fire or function. A Gunsmith.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:15:36 PM EDT
$200 plus the shotgun is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy too much, IMO. While the 4506 is indeed a decent little gun, they are a dearth on the market, i.e. slow sellers.

At best, even up for the shotgun; at worst shotgun + $100, no more.

My .o2
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:08:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 2:09:52 AM EDT by Sukebe]

Originally Posted By tommygs:

i have become one with my beer-belly, and since he said he's got a s&w 4506 and wanted to get rid of it, i'd be interested. never owned a 4506.

input? anyone have yays or nays for it? i'd probably give him boot, say, 200 or so cash. stainless steel gun, which i normally don't like due to reflection possibilities in the dark, but other than that, do you guys have any input?

thanks for your .02!



Run, don't walk, run from the S&W 4506. It was my Dept's standard issue sidearm for the last 13 years. We had many problems with them. They are too heavy, the trigger sucks in both double and single action and they are unreliable. Some individuals might say good things about their 4506. I'm speaking from the experience of seeing a sampleing of 200 of them in use over several years. They were so bad that we twice had factory reps come from S&W and perform modifications such as installing double operating springs. Eventually S& no longer would warranty our pistols. They are junk.
Last year, we traded them in for Glock 22's. Our armorer inspected every 4506 we had. Our officers had the option of purchasing their weapons at the trade in price so our armorer made any reapirs for the officers who wanted to purchase them. Many needed repairs. Several had cracked frames and most of those had only been fired during annual qualification. They crack at the slide stop hole.

Stay away.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 3:32:57 AM EDT
I have and shoot S&W handguns all the time and love the SS guns. I have not had a single FTF or FTE on any of my guns.

Join the www.smithandwessonforum.com to get additional information on the 4506. I only hear good things about them. I would offer him 150 with only two mags and 10 more for each additional mag!
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:30:39 PM EDT
My 4506-1 has been a superb pistol that feeds everything put through it (even the wide mouthed CCI shot loads). It is big but very sturdy. The frame was designed to handle the 10mm.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:51:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Run, don't walk, run from the S&W 4506. It was my Dept's standard issue sidearm for the last 13 years. We had many problems with them.





No offense, but the police would be the last bunch I'd take gun advice from, generally speaking.

As for your cracked frames, that's almost impossible to do on a steel framed gun around the slide pin hole, IMO.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:59:35 AM EDT
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=16&t=18412

Another recent thread about the 4506 with some more feedback for you.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 11:22:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Run, don't walk, run from the S&W 4506. It was my Dept's standard issue sidearm for the last 13 years. We had many problems with them.





No offense, but the police would be the last bunch I'd take gun advice from, generally speaking.

As for your cracked frames, that's almost impossible to do on a steel framed gun around the slide pin hole, IMO.



Well, like I said, I've observed 200 examples of the 4506 in service over a period of 13 years. I've seen just about everything that can go wrong with them including several cracked frames. What's you're experience with them? What qualifies you to give advice? And I'm not talking about S&W auto's in general. The subject is the 4506. The man asked for input. Yay's or nay's. I've qualified my opinion of these pistols. If you own one and have been somehow insulted, by the fact that they are junk, I'm sorry about that.
I've got no axe to grind with S&W. I've had good service from a couple of 9mm S&W auto's that I have owned. But they just couldn't get the .45ACP right. At least not in the 4506.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 4:18:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

What's you're experience with them?
Sold them, shot them & know several owners. BTW, "you're" is a contraction of "you are"; "your" is possessive.


What qualifies you to give advice?
Years & years of gun experience. What qualifies you to determine whether or not I can or cannot give advice?


If you own one and have been somehow insulted, by the fact that they are junk, I'm sorry about that.
Wrong on all counts. But they are not "junk", despite your assurances otherwise. While they're not a H&K, they're certainly no POS.


But they just couldn't get the .45ACP right. At least not in the 4506.
Right is subjective. Certainly S&W didn't set any sales records with them but S&W hasn't set any records with any centerfire auto in their catalog, AFAIK. Given the fairly low pressure generated by the .45acp rd, it would take a defective frame or too weak recoil spring or overpowered ammo or a combo of all three to crack a steel frame, generally speaking. Could be your dad's dept had a bad batch of frames, I don't know, I wasn't there nor have I seen the guns so I can't say what happened to them. But this is by no means an across the board failure of the 4506.


Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:34:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 9:18:33 PM EDT by Sukebe]

Originally posted by BobCole:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

What qualifies you to give advice?


Years & years of gun experience. What qualifies you to determine whether or not I can or cannot give advice?



I never said you were unqualified to give advice on anything. The subject however is the 4506. The question referred to your experience with the 4506 and your experience with them which would qualify you to give advice on them. I ask again. If you're going to denounce what I have said as nearly impossible or some kind of fluke or simply untrue, at least give your experience with a larger sampleing of the 4506 over a greater amount of time. How about a sampleing of even half that amount over any significant period of time? Perhaps some real technical studies. Even anecdotal evidence. Something. Otherwise just be polite, state your opinion and move on. That's what I intended to do. Act like you've got some sense.


If you own one and have been somehow insulted, by the fact that they are junk, I'm sorry about that.
Wrong on all counts. But they are not "junk", despite your assurances otherwise. While they're not a H&K, they're certainly no POS.



We were very pleased to get the .45ACP when we made the transition. We had high hopes for the 4506. Over time we developed zero confidence in that pistol. S&W abanonded us form any further technical support. They gave up on their own pistol. I'll put it this way;
S&W 4506 = 1974 Ford Pinto. Glock, Sig, H&K = 2005 Honda Accord. The 4506 is so miserable and such a POS, it can not be compared to it's contemporaries. Except perhaps Ruger Semi autos.


Could be your dad's dept had a bad batch of frames, I don't know, I wasn't there nor have I seen the guns so I can't say what happened to them. But this is by no means an across the board failure of the 4506.


My dad has never been a Police Officer. Read everything this time. Slowly so you get it all. Try concentrating less on grammatical errors and more on content. I was there. The defective parts are varied and numerous and I'm only going to say it one more time. We had several cracked frames. Your experience with the 4506 is about nill.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:54:46 PM EDT
One of our local PD's issued them, currently they issue the 4566(4 1/2 inch version). The only complaints I have heard from a few of them on the 4506 was that it was a bitch to carry due to the size and weight. Couldn't really sit the the Vic with it holstered very comfortably.

I had the 4566, and though not as trendy as a Sig or HK, it was a great shooter, ate everything including empties (malf drills). They are extremely stout pistols, had about 300 rounds of .45 super through it with a heavier recoil spring and mag spring only. Seems like all of the 3rd generation Smith autos go for between 3-400$ and are worth it IMO. They are not flashy but are well made, durable (every one I have seen) and reasonably accurate. The triggers do suck, but trigger jobs are relatively cheap.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:02:04 PM EDT
If it was good enough for Sonny Crocket...





www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/miami-vice-1.htm

www.bren-ten.com/id5.html

"SMITH & WESSON is going great guns with many new products this year. The New Generation 9mm autos are back-ordered at the moment, so great is their acceptance by both the police market and the public. The Model 4506 is perhaps the finest .45 auto for defense on the market, all things considered."

www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_n9_v34/ai_7988701

www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/SW_4506.htm

Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:54:10 PM EDT
I don't know why you'd be interested in a S&W auto pistol if you have 3 1911's.

I also don't know why you'd bother with a 9mm when you have 3 .45 ACP 1911's.

I do know that nobody will give you squat for the S&W when you realize you made a mistake and try to dump it.



Link Posted: 8/12/2005 10:09:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 10:10:28 PM EDT by SilverState]
I have a few 1911s in 45acp including a Wilson Combat CQB, STI Trojan, and a Kimber Eclipse.

Despite that, I still bought a Smith and Wesson 1006 (10mm) and would buy a 4506 (45acp) if I could get one for about $300-$350 depending on condition and/or mags, box, manual, etc.

If my 1006 is any indication, it is a well-built reliable weapon. Not exactly lightweight and not exactly small, but worth owning for the price I indicated. They are built like tanks.

Link Posted: 8/13/2005 2:45:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Otherwise just be polite, state your opinion and move on. That's what I intended to do. Act like you've got some sense.





You should take your own advice, sir.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:46:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 6:57:23 PM EDT
Sukebe,

Did your Dept ever change any of the springs in your guns on a regular basis?

IMO, with proper PM, steel framed SW handguns should last forever.

BTW, my Dept got rid of our barely used 4586s because they were "worn out". They never got new recoil or mag springs in over 10 yrs of use.

Dave Williams
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:05:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 10:54:33 PM EDT by Sukebe]

Originally Posted By Dave_Williams:
Sukebe,

Did your Dept ever change any of the springs in your guns on a regular basis?

IMO, with proper PM, steel framed SW handguns should last forever.

BTW, my Dept got rid of our barely used 4586s because they were "worn out". They never got new recoil or mag springs in over 10 yrs of use.

Dave Williams



One of the Mods that the S&W Reps. made was changing out the single recoil springs for double recoil springs. They also polished feed ramps. They also buffed the rails. These mods were supposed to alleviate battering and solve our problems with failures to feed. Aside from the cracked frames, the trigger play springs were a chronic problem They would break on almost every gun we had. We also saw a lot of broken safety lever springs and plungers. Then there was the magazine buttplate catches. The little sheet metal plate at the bottom of the Mags spring under the baseplate. The retaining tabs on those would break over time due to recoil. This would cause the Mag. base to slip off and spill your ammo all over the place leaving you with an empty gun. Imagine that happening at a criticle moment.

As far as the cracked frames go, I understand that these are hefty pistols. They appear to be over built, very stout. I don't know what kind of round count they are designed to take but none of our pistols could have more than 10,000 rounds through them and that would be the maximum on a very small few. Nearly all of them would have far fewer rounds than that. Most less than half that amount.

These pistols are O.K. for an occaisional shooter that will be sitting in a safe most of it's life. But for a person who carries it as an offensive/defensive weapon, a person who's life may depend on it some day, I would not recommend it. Not when much higher quality handguns are available at competative prices. That is just my opinion based on my experience.

Nobody could argue that S&W's revolvers are top shelf. I wish a gun maker like S&W could make a high quality semi auto pistol. The model 39 was state of the art in it's day but they haven't evolved much from there. I don't know if they are not motivated or simply incapable.


But to answer your question, other than the mods performed by the S&W Reps. we had no policy of routinely replacing recoil springs. With the round count of the vast majority of our guns, I wouldn't believe it would be necessary. The Mag. springs being under constant compression most of the time, should last much longer than 10 years. They were sold to us under the impression that they would last a lifetime. That from S&W.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 11:12:16 AM EDT
I don't know why some of you are going after Sukebe. An opinion was solicited. He gave his (rather well stated) opinion. He was not inflamatory, and used a sampling larger than most of us are exposed to. What is the problem here?

I for one find it interesting that his department had that many failures, and find it even more interesting that S&W abandoned them.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:41:56 PM EDT
Well I wasn't attacking him, I was just curious about the preventative maintenance.

To me, the idea that steel framed 45s wear out in 10K rounds is silly. But if it happened, it happened.

Leave it to Cops to fuck up a gun......................I feel I can say that since I'm a Cop too............Sorry if you don't like it.

Dave Williams
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:07:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theBUBBAMANcan:
I don't know why you'd be interested in a S&W auto pistol if you have 3 1911's.

I also don't know why you'd bother with a 9mm when you have 3 .45 ACP 1911's.

I do know that nobody will give you squat for the S&W when you realize you made a mistake and try to dump it.






Righhhtttt..... While S&W's are available in plenty on the market, i wouldn't hesitate to buy one.

My go to gun is a S&W 4006, well over 25K rounds, and one FTF (using crappy ammo at that). Gun has always been reliable and is well built. Trigger needs work. The triggers on my Sigs are much crisper, but they also cost much more $$$$.

I think a 4506 would be a great gun. If it is a TSW then the rail would be nice for a light.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:27:26 AM EDT
I have had good luck with S&W pistols. I've owned a 5903 and a 5906 (which I still have) 9mm's. Reliability has been good.

My biggest gripe with S&W pistols are their horrible triggers. They have a more gritty feel and more slack than in any pistol I've ever fired. I even prefer Ruger P-Series triggers over S&W. If they'd put a less shitty trigger in their guns, I'd own more of them.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:52:11 PM EDT
Top Top