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Posted: 1/16/2008 9:34:18 PM EST
I've always been a fan of the 1911, but I'd like to have the higher capacity as well.. do Para Ordnance pistols still suck? Do I need to go up to the STI level to get a decent double-stack 1911 (OK, 1911 style, for you purists)? Does that ridiculous magwell on the STI come off?

Inquiring minds want to know.
cmmg
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 11:36:20 PM EST
[#1]
My last brush with Para Ordnance suckage was 2005, IIRC where I saw their customer service (which used to be excellent) go into the crapper. Forget Para. If you MUST get one, go with STI or find an old springer. I would sincerely ask if you really really want a staggered 1911 though. I got into serious shooting with a P-14, but they (and any staggered pistol I can think of) aren't worth dick for CCW, IMO. If you want to hold a very heavy gun at the range/nightstand, or have some competition bug then maybe the capacity makes sense. Otherwise, look at the stacked mag if you have any CCW ambitions -that's 8+1 with 10 rd spares if desired. The application should always dictate the purchase. And $35 for the most expensive mag out there beats the hell out of a STARTING price of $50.  
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 2:08:27 AM EST
[#2]
Magwell comes off and you can replace it with a DP ICE A much better magwell. The DP ICE is like a vacuum cleaner it just sucks the magazine in the gun.

For the money STI or SV is way better than para.

Lots of Custom Gunsmith build off the STI frame, for USPSA use.


Link Posted: 1/17/2008 7:32:25 AM EST
[#3]

Quoted:
And $35 for the most expensive mag out there beats the hell out of a STARTING price of $50.  


I don't have a problem paying that much for mags (I'm used to HK prices), as long as they're GOOD mags.. it's not like I can just swap it out for a Novak or Wilson if the mag has problems. Considering these are raceguns, are the mags pretty reliable?
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 7:39:49 AM EST
[#4]
The STI/SV guns are much better than the Paras - this is from a guy who has had multiples of both types. STI market guns specifically for CCW, without all the competition stuff that you don't want. Aside from the weight of the extra ammo, the STI guns are no different from a single-stack 1911 IMHO (about the same width, lighter unloaded weight)... if you are carrying the extra ammo anyway, what does it matter whether its in the gun or in a separate mag carrier ?

As for mags, my older STI mags ran like a top, but some newer ones I bought needed some tweaking... nothing major and still much better than Para mags. My current USPSA Limited pistol is in .40S&W, but the rounds have to be handloaded long to feed reliably in an STI. If you are going to CCW with it, I would suggest you go with .45ACP or 10mm Auto instead of .40, so you can run factory loads.
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 9:17:02 AM EST
[#5]

Quoted:
I don't have a problem paying that much for mags (I'm used to HK prices), as long as they're GOOD mags.. it's not like I can just swap it out for a Novak or Wilson if the mag has problems. Considering these are raceguns, are the mags pretty reliable?


STI and SV both make good mags straight from the factory.  The tuning and tweaking can get expensive when you're trying to get the maximum amount of rounds into the tube for competition, while still trying to get reliable feeding.  I've had excellent luck with the standard capacity 126mm STI mags in .40 for CCW.

If you're not trying to squeeze every millimeter of space out of the mag tube, you generally won't have problems.

The STI Eagle might be a good fit for you.  Basic doublestack without a bunch of competition doodads.  In the photo below you also see the plastic grip frame in its natural state, before the addition of a Huge Ass Magwell.  The stock grip frame has a decent mag well bevel from the factory.

Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:28:17 PM EST
[#6]
STI .40 will not feed factory ammo?  Give me a break.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 8:21:22 PM EST
[#7]
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 7:19:14 AM EST
[#8]
no contest, go w/ the STI

Link Posted: 1/19/2008 11:50:58 AM EST
[#9]

Quoted:
STI .40 will not feed factory ammo?  Give me a break.


Mine fed over 4k rounds of factory 180 ball, now I reload and keep then factory length.  
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:44:11 PM EST
[#10]
I had to tune a Para just to feed anything but TC 180 Factory loads.  Chamber was cut extremely tight.  Nothing but jacketed would fit.  I don't like the PXT at all.  

Other than that....Oh yeah and the finish is absolute crap.  Think Krylon.  Comes right off.

STI's have a better fit AND finish.  Bar none.  

As for weight, STI claims that they are the same loaded-to weight.  They are thinner (and for me much more comfortable).  

Caspian is another source you can shop for a wide body.
I prefer the STI as you can still use all 1911 parts (except trigger and mag release, which both come with the frames).
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 6:35:34 PM EST
[#11]
On STi they also require a different mainspring housing.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 6:43:38 PM EST
[#12]
STI without a doubt

Link Posted: 1/20/2008 9:31:11 AM EST
[#13]

Quoted:
On STi they also require a different mainspring housing.


I've heard that, but since the frames come with them haven't run into that issue.
Link Posted: 1/20/2008 2:21:33 PM EST
[#14]
I guess Im the only guy that has had not one, but two Paras that run like a top. Factory mags and factory ammo. My 200gr SWC reloads run pretty good with a lighter charge so long as I change out the recoil spring. These are both pre PXT guns one made around 96 and the other 98.
Link Posted: 1/20/2008 3:50:55 PM EST
[#15]
That would be consistent with the general consensus, older Para's good-newer Para's not so much.

I was really shocked at the lack of durability in the finish.
Link Posted: 1/20/2008 4:08:50 PM EST
[#16]

Quoted:
I guess Im the only guy that has had not one, but two Paras that run like a top. Factory mags and factory ammo. My 200gr SWC reloads run pretty good with a lighter charge so long as I change out the recoil spring. These are both pre PXT guns one made around 96 and the other 98.


The older ones are generally considered to be much better pistols.

My father had worlds of fun with Para's quality and customer service with a LDA he got in 2005. Went back the factory 3 times, each time they said the problem was "user error" and the gun was fine. After the third trip he informed Para that he had no option to but to ban his officers (he's a CLEO) from carrying Para products - they asked him to send it in again, and magically fixed the pistol that "didn't have anything wrong with it."
Link Posted: 1/20/2008 5:43:26 PM EST
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
On STi they also require a different mainspring housing.


I've heard that, but since the frames come with them haven't run into that issue.


True, some people like to run a steel mainspring housing for added weight.  If your going to swap out the part just make sure it is for a STI.

You could proberly file the magazine side of a std 1911 msh to work, I just never tried it.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 2:45:22 PM EST
[#18]

Quoted:
True, some people like to run a steel mainspring housing for added weight.  If your going to swap out the part just make sure it is for a STI.

You could proberly file the magazine side of a std 1911 msh to work, I just never tried it.


You could, and it would work, but wouldn't be what you'd call a perfect fit.



Link Posted: 1/22/2008 2:26:33 PM EST
[#19]
Are the Para's really that bad of a gun???

A guy at work has a few for sale. He claims they are new and unfired, but I have not seen to confirm. I made him a low offer on a P13 but he said he could not go that deep. Was I lucky not to have got it?
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 3:05:30 PM EST
[#20]

Quoted:
Are the Para's really that bad of a gun???

A guy at work has a few for sale. He claims they are new and unfired, but I have not seen to confirm. I made him a low offer on a P13 but he said he could not go that deep. Was I lucky not to have got it?


I dont know about the newer ones but the older ones were excellent pistols with great fit and so so finishes that caught a stigma with a large batch of crap hicap mags. Im a fan, theyre fun but they weigh a ton with a full mag and the factory mags run 40-50 bucks.
Link Posted: 1/22/2008 4:15:53 PM EST
[#21]
I'll bet TJ could of finished better if his para was working at the 2007 nationals.

Para pays TJ to shoot for them. If his gun was not working, just think how well a massproduced one will run.
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