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9/16/2019 10:09:13 PM
Posted: 3/20/2009 11:49:38 AM EDT
Hey all, Im sure this topic has been hit like a drunken mule,

I go to school in upstate NY, I have a valid CCW and regularly carry. However due to the policy that campuses are "Gun Free Zones",

If i am heading to class or campus, i have to leave my shit at home. the problem this poses is that to go home get my pistol, then head out
to do errands is a rather large nusiance.

I can understand (not agree with) the policy of gun free campuses. However being prudent towards the law, i wont even have my shit locked
up in my trunk, ammo either for the fear that I will be prosecuted for having an "arsenal" in my vehicle and have to go through a legal shitstorm.

This happened to someone I knew who the day after the VT tragedy, was caught in dual purpose housing (RIT owns a hotel that is dorms as well as for
patrons) with an AR-15, an AK-47, and what was later described as an exorbitant amount of ammunition in his vehicle (150 rounds). The grand jury ultimately
refused to indict him and he was off scott free, less thousands in legal expenses and being thrown out of school.

Has anybody ever had any experience with requesting permission to store their firearm in their vehicle on school property? is this advisable?
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 12:43:41 PM EDT
I would say fuck it and put it in your car. locked with your standard amount of ammo. Just realize stupid things happen to stupid people. I just saw a video on youtube of a lady who testified to the brady camp. Her parents were victims in a spree killing. She left her pistol at home for about the same reason. She said she'd rathe be in jail with a felony weapons charge then dead. I happen to agree. Your buddy was lucky. Be reasonable and smart and ytou shouldnt have a problem.
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 5:25:38 PM EDT
My solution was to find off campus parking. Before that, I left it in my car. It was a violation of school rules, but not illegal. I also sent a letter to the school and participated in the empty holster day. http://concealedcampus.org/readmore.php?nid=40


My suggestion? Obey the law but work to change it.

That reminds me, I've got to send letters to several schools and remind them to fix this.
Link Posted: 3/21/2009 11:32:40 AM EDT
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that he should NOT write a letter to the school while he is attending.

Here in WI at the college I attend, that would give the over-anxious administration something to search your vehicle for.
We can't carry at all, so I don't. (aside from some large nasty knives.) In preperation for a presentation, I wrote a letter to the campus safety department. For the most part they don't carry weapons A few of them are deputized officers just getting overtime from the county - those guys carry their personal piece, from the one i've seen, a Glock 26, I doubt the ability to shoot any kind of distance. I asked what their procedure was for an active shooter scenario, and what their feelings on CCW for students/faculty was. After getting back a rather one sided letter about how people carrying guns endangers the safety of all students, they wrote that in the case of an active shooter, the campus safety officers duty was to locate the individual and call for backup. They assured me that they had my safety and well being in mind. A few months later, the school released a video produced by some "survival" hacks where they tell you to evaluate the situation and take immediate action. The 2 recommendations given: run in zig-zags or if cornered, throw heavy textbooks at the perp. I wanted to laugh, but I walk those halls daily and wonder.

A week or two after my letter, I got an email to my campus account from a concerned safety officer (parking enforcement with a badge!) expressing that it was illegal to leave firearms in your car on campus.

My feelings on this state as a whole:
Link Posted: 3/21/2009 6:18:00 PM EDT
The college I attended had a policy of no guns on campus. It wasn't a state law, just a school policy. You could be "written up" and have administrative discipline, but no state laws were broken. I didn't carry when I was in college because I didn't understand the laws or the responsibility back then. Now, if I did it over again, I think I would carry and deal with the admin if I got found out. I am not advocating breaking any laws if they are different in your state.

Link Posted: 3/21/2009 8:16:17 PM EDT
You may want to check local laws but here in MO it is 100% legal to enter school grounds w/ a gun in your vehicle. The gun MAY NOT leave the vehicle, but it is not against the law to just have it in your vehicle. This ONLY applies to CCW holders.
Link Posted: 3/22/2009 8:00:23 AM EDT
Here in CT firearms are only prohibited in "Primary and Secondary schools", so that does not include colleges and universities. Our campus police are state paid and trained officers that do carry all the time as well as dress in plain clothes, at least on my campus. Our student hand book states that firearms and ammunition are not permitted on campus. One of my main problems about this, other than the fact that I have a CCW and I am a veteran so there for I am very familiar with firearms and proper target acquisition is that where the hell does campus start exactly? Where is the imaginary line located? Is it on the streets where the kids live in houses, it is in the class rooms, in the parking garage? Thats the problem with imaginary lines you cant see them.
Link Posted: 3/22/2009 3:23:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2009 3:24:27 PM EDT by zfk55]
I have no experience with this, but I do have one of my father's chronicles about someone he knew. He wrote if for my sister, but it sorta fits here I think.
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Copied.

The Lost Prairie Chronicles: Side trip 10
He had been watching the news stories on violence since high school, and now he was on his own. His parents had offered to keep him at home through college, but he was determined to find his own way without help, and his parents were secretly proud.
He knew that the local community college was the right place to begin, and he quickly found employment in a local harware store. His willingness to work and learn impressed his employer and he was soon given more responsibility. He wasn't quite sure of a major yet, but he was headed in the direction of business management with a class on biology thrown in to keep things interesting.

He lived in an apartment complex not far from the college and soon came to know his neighbors. He was considered a level headed youngster and gained their respect for being polite and helpful when asked. He was no saint, but he had a logical approach to his dealings with those around him.
He began dating a young lady in his biology class and they grew close. Neither was prepared for a lifetime commitment, but their feelings about each other grew strong and secure. She had the financial support of her parents and between the two of them they were able to afford a comfortable relationship, dating and an occasional evening out.

Things went smoothly until the night they returned to her apartment complex and were accosted in the parking lot. The two intruders were armed and demanding her purse and his wallet. He could see no advantage to resisting two armed men and quickly handed over his wallet. She asked the thugs to allow her to keep her rings as they were passed down from great grandmother to grandmother to mother and were now hers. Clenching her left hand she refused to give up the rings. One of the thugs threw her to the ground, forced her hand open and roughly pulled the rings from her fingers. She fought to retrieve them and was hit in the face for her trouble.
In a fury her young man charged the offending thug and was promptly knocked to the ground by the second accoster. With two pistols now trained on him he pulled his girlfriend close to him and waited. The two thugs ran into the night without further incident.

The following day his girlfriend's parents showed up to remove her from her apartment. She resigned from the community college and returned to her home town, too far away for a relationship, so he was now alone. Alone but not without a plan.
His police report was done at the local station, and he was unable to help with recognition but a female officer gave him the name of a local indoor shooting facility that could qualify him for a carry permit. She also recommended a few good books on legality, repercussions and advantages to obtaining a carry permit. She strongly stated the necessity of solid training, mental state and the potential dangers of carrying a firearm. He listened, understood and began the process.
The range had optional classes in the psycological preparation of carrying and confrontations. He purchased the recommended books and studied them exactly as if they were a part of his college curriculum. Once that aspect was under control he began the basic familiarization and function of his chosen firearm course offered by the range. He selected a range-owned standard .45 1911 type.

Within an ten week period and forty practical pistol classes later, he was ready to purchase his own pistol. He selected a Detonics .45 compact pistol and began using it for his defensive pistol classes.
A major part of his education involved how to handle a confrontation and how to avoid having to use his pistol at all. He learned never to discuss his carry pistol, never to show it, never to threaten with it and to do everything in his power to extricate himself from the confrontation without having to take defensive action. He understood completely that the pistol was last resort reserved for the gravest extreme.

Fact is that to the day he moved on he had not had another situation occur requiring defensive force of arms, but he rested secure in the knowledge that he was prepared, and he maintained his preparedness with weekly range time, but now it was out of pure pleasure and not necessity.
His friends had no real idea that he carried, and he seldom thought about the weight behind his hip.It became a natural part of dressing each day and he eventually graduated junior college without a single person on campus aware of his sidearm. He went on to a major college and I lost track of him, and I suppose that the tolerance laws on college campuses changed since then, but knowing him, if there were zero-tolerance laws on his chosen campus he'd not have observed them.

This young man was Trained and Quiet, and yes, I knew him, Pooh.

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Latigo
Link Posted: 3/22/2009 7:04:08 PM EDT
I asked one of the "Cops" on University of Florida campus how they dealt with the new Florida law that allows a person to keep their CCW in their car at work even if the place of employment has a no gun policy.

He said that the University was exempt. He said that technically the proper procedure for employees and students was to check your firearm in at the police station as you enter campus and pick it up as you leave. He said that you’d be surprised how many people actually do this. He also implied that the practical enforcement of the “gun in car in University parking lot/streets” was not really enforced. You simply state that you are on your way to the police station to check your weapon.

Haven’t actually found my way to the police station yet, but if the day ever comes I sure will be eager to ask our friendly civil servant if he could please direct me to the nearest police station as I was just on my way there to check my weapon in.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 6:40:56 PM EDT
You probably need to ask in your home town forum, as every state is unique.

For example, in AZ there is no LAW that makes carry on campus illegal. It is however against the RULES.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 7:05:31 PM EDT
There is a time for civil disobedience but I don't get the impression you want to go that route and I don't blame you. There are laws and rules that suck and we have to either not follow them and risk the consequences or follow them and be annoyed. I think a college campus is a place where CCW is a huge benefit. The academics in charge however, are major hypocrites in their expressed love of freedom of this and freedom of that but when it comes down to it, no real personal freedom. So, if it were *me* and I would get a locking case that doesn't look like a gun case but requires a key to get in to. Keep that in your trunk and don't access it under the watchful eyes of parking lot security. There are bored people watching those security camera screens with nothing better to do than send security over. You can transfer your pistol off campus.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:42:00 PM EDT
It depends on your state. In LA your car is your property and anyone can have a gun in their car CCW or not, even within 1000 ft of a school. However, a group I'm actively involved in at LSU has gotten legislation up for vote in the house to remove the gun free zone restrictions from college campuses as well as allow CC on campus. Last year it was HB 199 and we lost by only a handfull of votes. This year its HB 27 and we're cautiously optimistic. Read up on your state laws and join Students For Concealed Carry on Campus.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 2:44:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HKChad:
You may want to check local laws but here in MO it is 100% legal to enter school grounds w/ a gun in your vehicle. The gun MAY NOT leave the vehicle, but it is not against the law to just have it in your vehicle. This ONLY applies to CCW holders.


Ohio too.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 3:54:40 PM EDT
This DID happen to me and I'd like to state to all of the people who say, "fuck it, it's worth having your gun," that it was, in fact, not worth it.

I was keeping my two guns off campus at a friend's house. He and I had a falling out, so I kept them for a few days in my trunk. The plan was to take them home (about an hour away) on the weekend. This friend had apparently already been involved with a judicial affairs investigation, and told the University that I had guns on campus and had training with them.

The campus police WILL illegally search your car and/or on campus housing. They WILL seize your property - including so much as a pocket knife. They WILL give you absolute hell about trying to get your property out of their custody. You WILL be escorted off campus by armed police officers, possibly handcuffed in a patrol car. You WILL have a criminal trespass warning put out against you. You WILL be kicked out of school for at least a year. You will have sacrificed your work from that semester, and if you attend another school it is likely that you will go from attending on scholarship to having to foot the whole bill yourself. The campus judicial process is long, convoluted, and one sided: only infrequently following due process. You will be vilified by campus administrators and campus police. Your friends will be put under close scrutiny by the university. If you have a funny accent all they will talk about is "maladjusted immigrant" this and "VT shooter" that. Your private information is likely to be released illegally in contravention of educational and health privacy laws. As a condition for readmission they'll want you to subject yourself to an inquisition by mental health professionals and social workers to prove to them you aren't a psychopath. Your guns are likely to be fingerfucked, and your knives used for some cop's personal use.

All of this happened to me. I was on a full scholarship. I had hundreds of friends, none of whom ever saw my gun ownership as something to be scared of. I introduced dozens of people to shooting. I was involved in multiple campus groups (and was a charter member of the pro life group). I volunteered to teach math to 2nd graders at a crummy school and work at a couple Cub Scout daycamps. I worked my way all the way up to Eagle Scout many, many years ago. I've never had so much as a parking ticket.

And they still treated me like a criminal, asking, "What were you planning?" over and over again.

Do not fuck with them. They have an entire establishment behind them, and they will fuck you over. FIRE wont be able to help because there isn't a free speech or due process angle. The ACLU will not help you because they're most likely in agreement with the university. You likely wont have been arrested so the NRA can't be counted on.
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