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Posted: 3/23/2020 10:39:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2020 10:59:03 AM EDT by Stylz]
.357 mag is a beastly round for a handgun, but when it's fired from a 16" barrel it becomes something truly marvelous. We shoot .357 mag Remington 158gr semi jacketed hollow point from a 16" Rossi M92 into clear gel to assess penetration, expansion/fragmentation, and retained weight.


Why .357 Can Be Sometimes Be More Than Magnum: Remington 158gr SJHP 16" Gel Test



Results:
Penetration: 20.1"
Retained weight: 109.4gr
Max expansion: 0.611"
Min expansion: 0.496"

Velocities in fps:
1724
1727
1725
1688
1684
A­verage: 1709.6
StdDev: 21.62
Min: 1684
Max: 1727
Spread: 43
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 11:05:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 11:06:10 AM EDT
Awesome and thanks!  I've always loved the .357 carbine.
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 11:30:23 AM EDT




16" Rossi 92 handload data

22gr win296 125SJHP 2241fps

19.6gr Win296 140XTP 1963fps

17.3gr Win296 158xtp 1748fps

6.4gr win231 158swc 1338fps
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 11:39:34 AM EDT
Thank you!
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 11:51:10 AM EDT
my favorite caliber
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 12:20:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2020 12:22:13 PM EDT by konger]
Owning and hunting with both .357 carbine and revolver, I really appreciate you doing the .357 videos that you do. It's fun and it reinforces what I see in the field. I've tried lots of bullets out of both on animals but I haven't tried everything. So it's good to see you try some that I haven't. This Remington load is one that I've never used and I'm glad that you made a video about it. If I see it on the shelf in the future and I need to buy ammo, I won't hesitate to grab a box.

ETA: almost forgot, yes caliber does matter as well as bullet shape (meplat).
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 12:31:04 PM EDT
Awesome!
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 12:51:55 PM EDT
Good stuff.  I have often thought that packing with a .357 carbine and revolver would be a great combo.
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 12:56:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BMWBIKR:
Good stuff.  I have often thought that packing with a .357 carbine and revolver would be a great combo.
View Quote

Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 3/23/2020 1:00:29 PM EDT
Probably pretty close to the 158jsp in organic gel.

I dont have penatration numbers but these were fired from the 2 guns posted above into water. 140gr xtp over 9gr unique. They open up and hold together.
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 1:22:29 PM EDT
My 357 lever action is still one of my favorite rifles and its one that I like taking new shooters out on, loaded with 38's.
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 1:35:36 PM EDT
Makes me want to go buy a lever gun in .357!
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 2:33:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2020 2:41:11 PM EDT by N2CH_556]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thebert:
Makes me want to go buy a lever gun in .357!
View Quote




ETA: great video as usual
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 3:23:22 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thebert:
Makes me want to go buy a lever gun in .357!
View Quote

me too

any good deals out there on one?
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 3:27:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stylz:
This guy is legit. I watch all his videos!
View Quote


lol...
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 3:37:06 PM EDT
Are there comparable videos on the 30 carbine, 44-40, or the 44 magnum?
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 4:18:35 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By discworld717:
Are there comparable videos on the 30 carbine, 44-40, or the 44 magnum?
View Quote


I've seen ones on the .30 Carbine and its performance with a good expanding bullet is amazing. This is something I suspected many years ago, that if you took the FMJ away from the .30 carb it would be a good personal defense round. Even a decent short range deer carbine.
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 4:19:29 PM EDT
And for us old guys....

I got a Rossi 92 in 357 years ago that had a 4" rail in place of the rear sight.

Threw a PA Red Dot on there and no more reading glasses!

I think it's Steve's Guns or something that makes the kit.
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 5:03:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 03RN:
Probably pretty close to the 158jsp in organic gel.

I dont have penatration numbers but these were fired from the 2 guns posted above into water. 140gr xtp over 9gr unique. They open up and hold together.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/433221/20200305_124403_jpg-1329465.JPG
View Quote
9 gr. that's a stout load
impressive results!
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 6:44:55 PM EDT
Attachment Attached File


Henry Carbine in 357 threaded for a 3 lug mount so I can shoot surpressed. Love this thing more than most of my firearms!
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 6:53:33 PM EDT
I killed a lot of deer with 158 gr. Remington SJHP fired from .35 Remington Contender with 16" barrel.
I could SOMETIMES  get 5 shot groups of 1  1/4" at 100 yards with a 4x scope but usually groups were closer to 2".
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 7:47:20 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bigtard:
9 gr. that's a stout load
impressive results!
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bigtard:
Originally Posted By 03RN:
Probably pretty close to the 158jsp in organic gel.

I dont have penatration numbers but these were fired from the 2 guns posted above into water. 140gr xtp over 9gr unique. They open up and hold together.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/433221/20200305_124403_jpg-1329465.JPG
9 gr. that's a stout load
impressive results!


Max load per sierra.

I bought a bunch of cheap 130gr jsp that im going to test with the same load. They shoot good. I just want to see if they open up from the 2.75" and hold together from the 20.
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 8:34:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2020 11:55:39 AM EDT by konger]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By myhatinthering:

me too

any good deals out there on one?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By myhatinthering:
Originally Posted By thebert:
Makes me want to go buy a lever gun in .357!

me too

any good deals out there on one?


Attachment Attached File


ETA: .357 carbines are as rare as hen's teeth right now. Marlin 1894's are practically unobtainium. I've read online that the Henry 357 carbine is very difficult to find in stores or online as well. Your best bet might be finding a new old stock Rossi somewhere in a store. Prices are through the roof for anything you might stumble upon. I conducted an all-out search for a Marlin 1894 a couple months ago. The 1894 was my very first centerfire rifle and I hunted with it for many years before needing to sell it in a divorce about 10 years ago. Nobody had one online save for GunBroker and they were crazy prices. Checked every gun store within an hours drive including Cabela's and Bass Pro and there was nothing even in the pipeline of distribution networks. Finally located one in Charlotte at Hyatt's, so I made the two-hour drive. It's worth the search because these are fantastic guns!
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 8:38:06 PM EDT
Nice!  Do .44 mag next.
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 9:30:03 PM EDT
O3RN,
Please take video and @me when you do. Most of my revolvers are 357 and I've been thinking of a lever gun to go with.
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 10:26:11 PM EDT
Prior to the fateful canoeing accident

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 3/23/2020 11:57:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2020 12:02:30 AM EDT by rotorblade]
Boy let me tell ya what.
My son came in the office and saw me watching this and he was all "YEAH I wan't a lever gun" after shooting a guys Marlin 3030 at the range back around christmas.  
Then saw yours and its 357 and what it can do.
NOW he's all HELLLLLL YEAHHH   I WANT A LEVER GUN.  
357 is Cheaper than 3030.
I don't know whether to cuss you or thank you.



Originally Posted By chopinbloc:
.357 mag is a beastly round for a handgun, but when it's fired from a 16" barrel it becomes something truly marvelous. We shoot .357 mag Remington 158gr semi jacketed hollow point from a 16" Rossi M92 into clear gel to assess penetration, expansion/fragmentation, and retained weight.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrSPXFfjjWg


Results:
Penetration: 20.1"
Retained weight: 109.4gr
Max expansion: 0.611"
Min expansion: 0.496"

Velocities in fps:
1724
1727
1725
1688
1684
A­verage: 1709.6
StdDev: 21.62
Min: 1684
Max: 1727
Spread: 43
View Quote
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 7:00:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 10:11:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 11:09:17 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By twodeucetrey:
Prior to the fateful canoeing accident

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/90628/IMG_0093_jpeg-1330457.JPG
View Quote


That is absolute class right there.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 12:12:45 PM EDT
Darn, you done it.
Now, I am planning to buy a lever action 357 magnum carbine, to partner with my S&W revolver.

Will you please do the same video with 44 Magnum?
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 12:19:11 PM EDT
.357 has become my favorite caliber lately! With cast bullets it's amazing! Plus super cheap to shoot!
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 12:23:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 2:02:40 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Derek45:


https://i.imgur.com/o65YpYx.jpg


16" Rossi 92 handload data

22gr win296 125SJHP 2241fps

19.6gr Win296 140XTP 1963fps

17.3gr Win296 158xtp 1748fps

6.4gr win231 158swc 1338fps
View Quote



That Win231 is pretty economical.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 3:07:44 PM EDT
That's a 16 inch barrel.  How much velocity is gained with a 20 inch?
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 7:10:31 PM EDT
Tnoutdoors9 tested this one in a 3" revolver I believe. Did quite well there also from my memory.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 7:42:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chris_in_TX:



That Win231 is pretty economical.
View Quote


@Chris_in_TX

It's a great old classic pistol powder.

so is UNIQUE....aka combustible dirt

.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 7:45:42 PM EDT
I started using 231 when I learned to reload and never saw any reason to use other powders.   Works well in .40 S&W  and .45ACP.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 7:51:32 PM EDT
Thanks a lot!
I have wanted a 38/357 lever gun for years now but can't find one.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 5:24:20 AM EDT
I have a Ruger 77/357 with an 18" barrel run it suppressed.   Handloaded Hornady 158 XTP's chronic at 1805 fps with 16 grains of 2400 powder.   Its safe in a locked breech, but it's probably too hot for most revolvers.    Very stout load!
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 12:11:05 PM EDT
+1 for do 44 mag
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 12:26:47 PM EDT
So 5"-6" more penetration, with less retained weight and much less expansion than many self defense pistol rounds, fired from handguns.

Overdriven projectile. Try it with a better bullet, if you want to see the capability of .357 out of a 16" barrel. Something bonded, or a copper bullet like a Barnes. Hardcast if you're just looking for penetration. .357 out of a carbine can indeed be a beast, but not with most bullets designed for handguns.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 12:44:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By konger:


/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/landing-page-double-take-354.gif

ETA: .357 carbines are as rare as hen's teeth right now. Marlin 1894's are practically unobtainium. I've read online that the Henry 357 carbine is very difficult to find in stores or online as well. Your best bet might be finding a new old stock Rossi somewhere in a store. Prices are through the roof for anything you might stumble upon. I conducted an all-out search for a Marlin 1894 a couple months ago. The 1894 was my very first centerfire rifle and I hunted with it for many years before needing to sell it in a divorce about 10 years ago. Nobody had one online save for GunBroker and they were crazy prices. Checked every gun store within an hours drive including Cabela's and Bass Pro and there was nothing even in the pipeline of distribution networks. Finally located one in Charlotte at Hyatt's, so I made the two-hour drive. It's worth the search because these are fantastic guns!
View Quote


Marlin wasn't really making them for the last several years according to the guy at the Marlin booth at SHOT. He said they were coming off the line now, or at least at the time. Not sure if that's changed with all the manufacturing changes going on at their parent company, but I do see them on Gunbroker, so I know they've made some.  I have a couple of the older blue ones, but I'd really like one of the 16" stainless .357's they have been advertising for a couple years, (if they had figured out how to make them right).... I passed on one of the special run 16" stainless .357's that Davidson's did years ago, because it was something like $700 at the time. I had bought several others in that series, but thought that price was too high.  Later on I saw them change hands on Gunbroker for 3K+.  Not my smartest move.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 12:59:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WI_Bill:
That's a 16 inch barrel.  How much velocity is gained with a 20 inch?
View Quote


Hard to say. Hopefully somebody can chime in with some data but I would expect that .357 has to be running out of gas by about that length.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 2:12:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARinID:
So 5"-6" more penetration, with less retained weight and much less expansion than many self defense pistol rounds, fired from handguns.

Overdriven projectile. Try it with a better bullet, if you want to see the capability of .357 out of a 16" barrel. Something bonded, or a copper bullet like a Barnes. Hardcast if you're just looking for penetration. .357 out of a carbine can indeed be a beast, but not with most bullets designed for handguns.
View Quote

Both bonded and Barnes bullets will simply bend all the way back against the shank of the projectile, so by the time they are done they are like a wadcutter. Not much unlike the heavy bullet in the above test.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 3:59:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By konger:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/landing-page-double-take-354.gif

ETA: .357 carbines are as rare as hen's teeth right now. Marlin 1894's are practically unobtainium. I've read online that the Henry 357 carbine is very difficult to find in stores or online as well. Your best bet might be finding a new old stock Rossi somewhere in a store. Prices are through the roof for anything you might stumble upon. I conducted an all-out search for a Marlin 1894 a couple months ago. The 1894 was my very first centerfire rifle and I hunted with it for many years before needing to sell it in a divorce about 10 years ago. Nobody had one online save for GunBroker and they were crazy prices. Checked every gun store within an hours drive including Cabela's and Bass Pro and there was nothing even in the pipeline of distribution networks. Finally located one in Charlotte at Hyatt's, so I made the two-hour drive. It's worth the search because these are fantastic guns!
View Quote


The last two lever actions that I bought were made in the same factory, decades apart, and both are still in production;
1. I got rid of my Win 94 Trapper in 45 Colt to get a used but unused Win 92 Trapper take-down in 45 Colt. Made for Win by Miroku
2. Liked that '92 so much that I asked around and was lucky to find a gun I knew of but had not seen, a Browning B92 in .357, made by Miroku.
If anything the B92 is slicker than the '92 Trapper

It's only my 2nd 357 carbine, the first was an Italian revolver (Mateba)

Neither of my 92 models cycle my favourite cast bullets (Keith design) - though I found that if I loaded the Keith bullet into a .38 Special case, it cycled and fed 100% - so I now do this as a way to ID indoor target ammo & outdoor ammo (RN or RNFP, in .357 brass)

So - IF you are after a nice smooth cycling carbine, look for one of the Miroku made models as they are slicker than goose*hit on glass
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 6:50:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARinID:
So 5"-6" more penetration, with less retained weight and much less expansion than many self defense pistol rounds, fired from handguns.

Overdriven projectile. Try it with a better bullet, if you want to see the capability of .357 out of a 16" barrel. Something bonded, or a copper bullet like a Barnes. Hardcast if you're just looking for penetration. .357 out of a carbine can indeed be a beast, but not with most bullets designed for handguns.
View Quote


Remember, its clear gel so is giving an exaggerated depth and expansion.

That first couple inches is boarderline rifle performance though.

Check out the ops youtube account (choppingblock) he has a ton of tests with organic gel. The 180gr jhp and 158gr jsp both do really well in gel. I think the 158 goes over 1800fps iirc.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 6:52:06 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Saddler:


The last two lever actions that I bought were made in the same factory, decades apart, and both are still in production;
1. I got rid of my Win 94 Trapper in 45 Colt to get a used but unused Win 92 Trapper take-down in 45 Colt. Made for Win by Miroku
2. Liked that '92 so much that I asked around and was lucky to find a gun I knew of but had not seen, a Browning B92 in .357, made by Miroku.
If anything the B92 is slicker than the '92 Trapper

It's only my 2nd 357 carbine, the first was an Italian revolver (Mateba)

Neither of my 92 models cycle my favourite cast bullets (Keith design) - though I found that if I loaded the Keith bullet into a .38 Special case, it cycled and fed 100% - so I now do this as a way to ID indoor target ammo & outdoor ammo (RN or RNFP, in .357 brass)

So - IF you are after a nice smooth cycling carbine, look for one of the Miroku made models as they are slicker than goose*hit on glass
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Saddler:
Originally Posted By konger:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/landing-page-double-take-354.gif

ETA: .357 carbines are as rare as hen's teeth right now. Marlin 1894's are practically unobtainium. I've read online that the Henry 357 carbine is very difficult to find in stores or online as well. Your best bet might be finding a new old stock Rossi somewhere in a store. Prices are through the roof for anything you might stumble upon. I conducted an all-out search for a Marlin 1894 a couple months ago. The 1894 was my very first centerfire rifle and I hunted with it for many years before needing to sell it in a divorce about 10 years ago. Nobody had one online save for GunBroker and they were crazy prices. Checked every gun store within an hours drive including Cabela's and Bass Pro and there was nothing even in the pipeline of distribution networks. Finally located one in Charlotte at Hyatt's, so I made the two-hour drive. It's worth the search because these are fantastic guns!


The last two lever actions that I bought were made in the same factory, decades apart, and both are still in production;
1. I got rid of my Win 94 Trapper in 45 Colt to get a used but unused Win 92 Trapper take-down in 45 Colt. Made for Win by Miroku
2. Liked that '92 so much that I asked around and was lucky to find a gun I knew of but had not seen, a Browning B92 in .357, made by Miroku.
If anything the B92 is slicker than the '92 Trapper

It's only my 2nd 357 carbine, the first was an Italian revolver (Mateba)

Neither of my 92 models cycle my favourite cast bullets (Keith design) - though I found that if I loaded the Keith bullet into a .38 Special case, it cycled and fed 100% - so I now do this as a way to ID indoor target ammo & outdoor ammo (RN or RNFP, in .357 brass)

So - IF you are after a nice smooth cycling carbine, look for one of the Miroku made models as they are slicker than goose*hit on glass


To bad. My m92 loves 158gr wn-swc. My .45 colt m92 loves 255gr swc as well.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 7:31:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2020 7:32:11 PM EDT by styles]
Please don’t tell the 45-70 guys.  They think they are the master race.  If they knew everything they shoot could be killed with a 357 or 45 colt they would require therapy!

Link Posted: 3/25/2020 8:33:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By styles:
Please don’t tell the 45-70 guys.  They think they are the master race.  If they knew everything they shoot could be killed with a 357 or 45 colt they would require therapy!

View Quote


Not quite there but i can push 325gr at 1900fps from my 16" .45 m92. Or a 180gr at 1900fps from my 20" .357.
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