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Posted: 9/15/2004 7:11:55 PM EST
Sounds weird I know, but I work at the University of Utah which has essentially an illegal policy banning permit holders from carrying on campus which basically makes it so I can't protect myself to, while at, and from work 5 days a week as well as when I come in at night occasionally. At any rate, myself and a few co-workers have thought about just tweaking the liberal administrator's. The case is actually in court right now as the state DA is suing the school to comply with the law (legislature passed a law that state entities must follow state law in creating their policies basically). None of us can afford the risk of being canned, but there's no policy that I know of (need to check before I implement of course) about carrying a chunk of metal in the likeness of a firearm.

So my question is, where can I get a fairly good-quality concealable firearm look-a-like that I can carry in a sort of civil disobedience? Any suggestions will be helpful.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 7:17:59 PM EST
why risk it at all?
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 8:33:31 PM EST
I agree with twonami. It would be better just to carry a baseball bat or the like. The sight of a gun is not always a deterrant. What happens if you stick a hunk of metal in a guys face and he just says "F U?" No one messes with a guy with a bat and if they do you have a viable weapon. Just remember that a gun isn't the only answer but the last one, and fight that school for your rights!
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 11:58:04 PM EST
I know a guy who was born and raised in NYC. His dad was first generation Italian. He says his dad always carried a hatchet in his belt, and NOBODY fucked with him!
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 12:56:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:38:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 7:39:48 AM EST by wolffie]
Be careful even with the "fake guns." I'm not sure how the whole "zero tolerance" bull**** affects your university, but I get dirty looks wearing a Dillon Precision t-shirt around my school. And I know at the primary educational level, a squirt gun can get you suspended or expelled. Hell, I'm in graduate school. I get to play with bone saws, syringes full of narcotics, scalpels, high speed handpieces with cutting burs,... all on people, and they gave me a little doo-dad we call the "death wheel" for trimming stone models. Yet some folks will get bent out of shape over a pocket knife... it aint right.

When I was living overseas, there was a company that made high quality umbrellas with carbon fiber rods, and weighted wood and steel handles. It wasn't advertised as such, but it was kind of "a wink wink nudge nudge," as to why one would carry such a nice umbrella in all types of weather. Ya know, the hot Australian sun and all. It balanced like a driver if you grabbed the non-handle end. They were too expensive for me to bring one home. But wouldn't that make a hell of a good idea for one of us "yanks" to produce a good quality umbrella like that?

Edited to add - They've probably outlawed them by now in Australia.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:58:45 PM EST
the sight of a gun may just start the shooting

which is not good if you can;t shoot back

then your fucked

pardon the expresion but well yea

MadMan

Stay safe man
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:09:50 PM EST
Don't carry a fake gun. It can not help, and may very well cause you harm, physically or professionally.

Check legality of pocket knife, stun gun, mace, or "walking stick".

None of these have the standoff capability of a firearm, but they sure beat being unarmed.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:11:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:15:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:16:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:29:45 PM EST
You're better off with some OC spray. Get some Fox Labs 5.3, they'll beg to be shot next time.
Fake guns belong with airsoft shit, at the bottom of the channel.
-Steve
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 9:03:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
No offense, but this is possibly one of the most retarded, future-Darwin Award ideas Ive heard all day....



+1
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 9:11:00 PM EST
I'll add my vote to the bad idea school of thought.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:44:59 PM EST
I hate that it takes me so long to reply to even threads I start myself! To answer a lot of your questions, it honestly would be more to make a statement than serve as actual protection. What no one seems to understand around there is that you can indeed be near a firearm and not actually die from it. If I encountered a situation like shotgun suggests, I wouldn't be pretending as though the gun actually works. I think I at least alluded to this in my original post mentioning I was interested in doing it to show my disgust at their current policy (civil disobedience). I appreciate the concern however.

wolffie - You'd be surprised how many students I see carrying umbrella's in the summer... Hmm... ;-) Thanks for the head's up about the possibility of the toy gun aspect. I've read the corrosponding sections of the PPM (Policy and Procedures Manual) and it doesn't say anything about items that look "like" a firearm, just a firearm itself. When I looked up the info, I was trying to see if it specified whether loaded or unloaded had any affect, which it doesn't. But you're still right. Utah is an at-will employment state, which essentially means they can "let you go" anytime they'd like. Granted, they probably wouldn't use the gun as the stated reason, but I'm sure I've ruffled SOMEONE in the past few years ;-)

So everyone thinks it's a bad idea, man that sucks. No worries though Lumpy, I'd have to actually respect someone before they'd be able to offend me very much, so it's all good. Most of you seem to think I wanted to do this to serve as some form of real protection; that's not the case. If that's what my concern was, stevenb's suggestion would be perfect.

You all make it sound like if you carry a gun, you EXPECT to be shot at. That's rediculous. At any rate, I was really just trying to solicit some information, which none of you have been able to provide. I never said I intended on doing this anyway, I'm just exploring several options we might be able to pursue while this is being tossed around in the courts.

Thanks at any rate and nevermind :) Cheers!
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 10:24:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bear_B:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
No offense, but this is possibly one of the most retarded, future-Darwin Award ideas Ive heard all day....



+1





Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:36:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
No offense, but this is possibly one of the most retarded, future-Darwin Award ideas Ive heard all day....



only today?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:38:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 5:13:44 AM EST
If you must carry a fake gun then get a "red gun". It is a training tool used to practice things like hand to hand, disarming, tactics, and stuff like that. Red (or sometimes blue) guns are shaped exactly like the real gun of your choice. They even fit perfectly in the holster. If you don't want it to be red (or blue) then just paint it black. Before I got my CCW I carried one just to get used to the feel of having it on me all the time. You can get them from Shomer I think.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 5:16:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:04:09 PM EST
I read more then I post. I find this site has a wealth on information
and a steady crew. However I will post today.

“Concealed” Is just that. As not to be seen. No one is to know!
My vote is it is a bad idea and will serve no purpose.
What I would suggest is educate the ones around you.
Pro gun flyers left in wash rooms, Flyers promoting gun safety
on the walls in the halls. Advertisements for you local gun store
safety course or when the next competition is at your local range.

If you can inspire one, You might start a trend.

Ill go back in my cage now.


Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:44:04 AM EST
Budweiser - Thanks for the suggestion. Actually, that's more where I've been headed recently. Just last week they were running Innocents Betrayed by the JPFO and so me and another guy in my department encouraged some people to go to see it. We went to two of the three screenings and we easily brought half of the people there each time. Most of the people we brought were gun friendly to begin with, but after watching that, they were energized.

Thanks for the advice.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:52:09 AM EST
I personaly would just cut one out of wood and leave it its natural color. by doing so your letting everyone know where you stand on the position but your not violateing any rules since its only a piece of wood.............
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 12:18:42 AM EST
I drew down a kid during a traffic stop over a BB gun. Looked just like a Taurus PT-99. I don't think I would mess with a fake gun that looks real. Especially with the way people freak out over guns. Be careful man. The wood idea isn't bad and maybe it would help get your point across (hopefully wouldn't get a real one pulled on you!)

and

If you should ever have to pull a real gun, you should plan on using it. That makes it really serious at that point. Hopefully the BG will turn and run and not stand and fight.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:35:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 8:35:52 PM EST by Big_Gay_Al]
I get the feeling that MOST of you are missing the point. The idea is NOT to carry a fake gun for defense. The idea, if I understand xtremist correctly, is to flaunt the rules that the University set down, in violation of state law.

THAT is what I believe he has in mind.

Xtremist, have you looked at the airsoft guns? They're pretty realistic looking, specially when in a holster.

Yes, I hate small print.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 7:11:00 PM EST
I like the idea of a wooden gun. I know of people that openly carry just holsters because they can't carry guns. It gets the point across. Just get a nice holster that cant be mistaken for anything else but a holster. But I suppose if they had to ask "what is that?" you would have a chance to tell them.
Good Luck
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 10:11:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 10:22:56 PM EST by WSmac]
Someone beat me to the holster idea.

If you want to make a statement, I thought you might wear a holster also.
Possibly like a western rig.
Get yourself a shirt printed with something like...

THE STATE OF UTAH TRUSTS ME TO CARRY A FIREARM ON MY PERSON
BUT,
THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH PREFERS THAT I LEAVE IT OFF CAMPUS INSTEAD OF UNDER MY DIRECT CONTROL
FEEL SAFER?

OR

I'VE BEEN TRAINED,
FINGERPRINTED,
BACKGROUND CHECKED,
AND FOUND TRUSTWORTHY TO CARRY THE FIREARM THAT BELONGS IN THIS HOLSTER
THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH LIKES TO SEE THAT I'VE LEFT MY GUN
OUT OF SIGHT
OUT OF THIS HOLSTER
AND
OUT OF MY CONTROL

OR

on the front:
UofU
Empty
Holster
Club

o­n the back:
UTES
U-nable To E-ffectively S-top
ASSAULT
RAPE
AND
MURDER
FEEL SAFER NOW?
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