Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 12/22/2003 1:17:00 PM EDT
...whenever I'm asked by someone "You know guns, what pistol should I buy."

I've owned both, prefer carrying the Sig, but if I had to choose one pistol to own for the rest of my life I think it would be a Glock. I can't quite put my finger on the reason why though. Just a gut instinct I guess.

Anyone else feel the same?

Link Posted: 12/22/2003 1:29:12 PM EDT
Sigs are some of the best pistols made. They are a good reliable design and if you own one you are well armed.

I would not trade my Glock for ANY Sig.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 2:46:24 PM EDT
The Sig quality is hard to beat. Maybe some of the HK stuff will do it. I would love to own a Sig, however they do nothing for the left handed shooter. As a result I have standardized on Glock and HK P7M8. As a lefty I have different requirements than most. Being able to just pick up a pistol and shoot under pressure is a big advantage. With a Glock or a P7 the safety features are more inherent to the shooting of the gun as opposed to worrying about external safeties, etc.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 3:21:50 PM EDT
Sigs and Glocks are both excellent choices,they both have advantages and disadvantages neither is better than the other,buy and carry the one you prefer,Sigs are definately safer ,the only time I dare carry my Glock is in a Quality Holster.But I can shoot my Glock accurately faster because of its shorter trigger reset.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 4:10:36 PM EDT
For someone asking, having never fired a gun...Sig.
To me, a gun designed to be carried cocked and unlocked with no visible hammer may be harder for a new gun owner to understand.
To see a hammer cocked and have the ability to decock it, plus being able to see the hammer in it's travel for the DA pull, IMO, gives more visual input as to what is happening.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 4:39:09 PM EDT
How about a Browning HP or a CZ75? There are many guns out there that are VERY RELIABLE. Sig.'s, HK's, amoung others. I am just not a Glock person. I shot a couple of glocks owned by friends and they are just not my favorite.
I would take my P99 in .40 over a Glock.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 5:48:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 5:54:44 PM EDT by snailfan]

I would love to own a Sig, however they do nothing for the left handed shooter.


I too am a lefty (as evidenced by the photo) & find the Sig as easy to operate as a Glock. Both have reversible mag releases & the only difference I see is with the decock lever found on the Sig. I have small hands and would not be able to decock the pistol with the thumb of my shooting hand anyway, so I have learned to use my index finger.

Link Posted: 12/22/2003 5:52:30 PM EDT
Glocks are my first choice but if I had to carry a DA auto it would be a SIG.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 5:59:00 PM EDT
...whenever I'm asked by someone "You know guns, what pistol should I buy."

Pistol? I suggest that the newbie be advised to buy a revolver. A K-frame or L-frame S&W. New, or used. A Glock can be tricky and arguably unsafe for a newbie.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 2:39:01 AM EDT
I'm the opposite - I respect Glock quality and the design, but for many small reasons I trust my life to a Sig220, nothing else.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:25:14 AM EDT
I sold all my Glocks and am now buying Sigs. Guess I need to change my username.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 6:39:07 PM EDT


I would take my P99 in .40 over a Glock.



Me too. The P99 is what a glock wishes it could be. It is more ergonomic, offers a second strike ability, has an ambi mag release (dont believe the whiners who say it is tricky or hard to use), is adaptable to differant size hands without permenant alteration, has a trigger that is 1000% better, looks sexy as hell and is made by walther. The only thing I dont like about it is it's non-industry standard acc. rail. Over 600rds to date with no cleaning and not onse single solitary problem, gun, mag, or ammo problem.

As far as Sigs and HKs....

I think Sig makes awsome guns, it's just to bad they have the ergonomics and look of a masonary brick, same for the USPs. The USPs controls are all out of sync and place with what I have ever shot. Not up to par with Walther, they even copied walthers idea for the grip/frame inserts in the P2000. IMHO, the last REAL guns HK makes/made are the P9S and the P7 series. The USPs are just oversized, chunky, ugly assed pistols.....that also work great.

My .02
SorryOciffer
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:50:59 PM EDT
SIGs have better ergonomics, at least to me. Glocks and USPs never fit my hand right, whether it is a full size or a compact. The Glocks are too square and the USPs are too clunky. Berettas are a little too fat, but not terrible. The P99 isn't too bad, just not to my taste. I prefer a 1911, but for a DA, I'll take a SIG anyday.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:51:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By knightone:
SIGs have better ergonomics, at least to me. Glocks and USPs never fit my hand right, whether it is a full size or a compact. The Glocks are too square and the USPs are too clunky. Berettas are a little too fat, but not terrible. The P99 isn't too bad, just not to my taste. I prefer a 1911, but for a DA, I'll take a SIG anyday.



No argument here, I love the ergos of an 1911, most everything is well placed and easy to reach. I only wish it had a P99 style mag release. Of guns with manual safties I dont think anything is faster than a 1911 style gun to get into action. For an all steel DA I like the S&W autos. The slide mounted controls aren't the most handy but they have very quick trigger resets and can have one of the best non-1911 trigger pulls when tuned.

SorryOciffer
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 5:36:33 AM EDT
Sig over glock 90% of the time UNLESS he wants a pocket pistol then I give the nod to Glock.

Full size P220 or 226 over glock everytime for a newby or oldie
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 6:27:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By anothergene:
For someone asking, having never fired a gun...Sig.
To me, a gun designed to be carried cocked and unlocked with no visible hammer may be harder for a new gun owner to understand.
To see a hammer cocked and have the ability to decock it, plus being able to see the hammer in it's travel for the DA pull, IMO, gives more visual input as to what is happening.



Yeah but Sigs have more confusing controls that a newbie may not be able to keep straight and any lever that drops a hammer will probably scare the hell out of those with marginal understanding. Glock controls: Trigger and slide release. HEY NEWBIE! DON'T TOUCH THE DAMN TRIGGER UNLESS YOU WANT THE GUN TO GO OFF! This of course is true for every gun, but things like hammers and levers are invitations for the uneducated to "play."
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 6:57:21 AM EDT
I'm a novice when it comes to handguns but I'll put my 2 cents in any how

I currently own a Glock 19 and a USPc 9mm and I love both. Both have their pros and cons but both are great, reliable handguns. I'm not a big guy so I don't have big hands but I like the feel of each one.

I also love the Walther P99 but I can't get used to that looooonnnnnnnnnngggggggggg trigger pull. I've put about 600 rounds through my buddies P99 and it's absolutely the most comfortable feeling handgun in the world (for me) but I can't hit the broad side of a barn with it so it wouldn't do me much good if I needed it. However, I'll still buy one

I also like the few Sigs that I've fired and I'd love to have one of the new P229s with rails.

The moral of this post? Own one of each!
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:38:24 PM EDT
No one ever talks about how a pistol points anymore. Shotgunners learned a long time ago that its a lot easier to get a shotgun that fits rather than practice until you overcome the handicap of a gun that doesn't point well. Glocks and Sigs have a different grip angle. I like the glocks, loved my 23, but gave it away because everytime I opened my eyes on a blind point, I was looking at the top of the slide. The sigs don't point as high and now I fondle a 220 or a 1911.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 3:59:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 4:25:14 PM EDT by M4C]
As good as SIG are, I have three big issues with them.

1) I will dare say UNSAFE. Why, because most all (or all?) have the dumb decocker lever. Decocking levers are the most senseless 'innovation' in modern firearms to come in a while. It teaches shooters to rely on a LEVER to drop the hammer and NOT CONCENTRATING on simply just keep the finger off the trigger if you don't want to fire, such as on a Glock or any dangerous weapon. I realize SIG is not the only gun manufactured with a decocker, but still I don't subscribe to this new false notion of 'safety' gadgets galore for the feeble-minded.

2) Height of bore over the frame. Contributes to increased recoil and more wear on parts than on a Glock, which is lower to the frame. To me, it is also unappealing and unnecessarily bulky, which is why I also can't grip/carry a SIG as comfortably. There is still an issue with finish on some SIGs.

C) SIG are overpriced. Yes I said it. When the price of a 9mm or .40 popgun gets to be the same as, for example, or almost the price of a NIB Bushmaster AR15, I won't be a fool to pay it. Same goes for H&K.
Glock, Beretta, CZ, SA-XDs, can do the job just as well for far less money and for a price that resembles that of a handgun, not a fine rifle.

Glock is simpler, more durable, safer and cheaper.

BTW, if it has a trigger, then it is already "tricky" and "arguably unsafe for newbies" and everybody else. Period.
Practice finger control and all will be fine. I'll go with a pistol that lets me concentrate on that and nothing else (as far as safety goes).


My two cents
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 10:13:27 PM EDT
Well I got a G21 here. I have nto fired a sig but I would like to.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:22:02 AM EDT
I like Glocks ,But there is no way they are safer than a Sig,Or anything else for that matter.They are on par with carrying a cocked and unlocked 1911(at least the 1911 has a grip safety).I installed the heavy NY trigger in mine and I still think my Sig is safer,I am not worried about an accidental discharge due to my trigger finger, as much as a loose piece of clothing or a set of keys in my wifes purse etc,etc.
Mike
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:43:39 AM EDT
If you pull the trigger and the firearm fires, that is not an accident. The firearm did what it was designed to do. It could be an unintentional or negligent discharge if the sights were not aligned with a target when it fired.

An accidental discharge occurs when something in the firearm breaks (ie: the sear) and causes the firearm to discharge.

Just trying to set everyone straight so you don't sound like the liberal media.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:56:51 AM EDT
An accidental discharge occurs when something in the firearm breaks (ie: the sear) and causes the firearm to discharge.

your right, I should have worded it "negligent discharge"
Mike
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:10:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4C:
1) I will dare say UNSAFE. Why, because most all (or all?) have the dumb decocker lever. Decocking levers are the most senseless 'innovation' in modern firearms to come in a while. It teaches shooters to rely on a LEVER to drop the hammer and NOT CONCENTRATING on simply just keep the finger off the trigger if you don't want to fire, such as on a Glock or any dangerous weapon. I realize SIG is not the only gun manufactured with a decocker, but still I don't subscribe to this new false notion of 'safety' gadgets galore for the feeble-minded.




What the heck does having a decocer have to do with not resting your finger on the trigger? One has nothing to do with the other. The 1911 has a manual safety and I still keep my finger off the trigger. I have nver heard of anyone depending on a safety or a decocker to prevent the gun from discharging. That was not what they were desinged for. They were mainly for added safety when the weapon is holstered.

If someone is placing their finger on the trigger just because the weapon has a safety or the trigger is in DA mode, they are highly enexperienced and in need of a quick lesson in firearms handling. An AR has a safety, that doesn't mean I rest my finger on the trigger.

i personally feel the decocking lever is a great innovation. It allows the hammer to be dropped safely, thus allowing it to be carried in the safer DA mode. It allows a faster presentation because it does not require a safety to be manipulated for the first shot to be fired. With a trigger job, the first DA pull can be smooth as butter.

The Glock is actually the most unsafe of handguns, not that it is unsafe at all. However, with all the hype of its 'safe action trigger" it is really a single action without a safety. It has a shorter trigger pull other DAO pistols and has a lighter pull from the factory than other factory DAO pistol.

Their marketing hype is convincing, but once you look at it from a logical standpint, it doesn't hold water. Not that it is unsafe. The misconception of "unsafe' handguns is perpetuated by the anti-gunners. If one knows what one is doing, a quality gun is as safe as any item around the house that can be used as a weapon.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:51:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 7:56:08 AM EDT by 1911Shootist]
The 1911. There can be only one.

Gaston Glock is not worthy enough to wash John Moses Browning's feet.

The Glock is an incredible hoax, and I just don't understand how otherwise sensible people think it's a great pistol. Reminds me of the "Emperor's New Clothes" story. Marketing BS can apparently convince some people of anything.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:17:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
The 1911. There can be only one.

Gaston Glock is not worthy enough to wash John Moses Browning's feet.

The Glock is an incredible hoax, and I just don't understand how otherwise sensible people think it's a great pistol. Reminds me of the "Emperor's New Clothes" story. Marketing BS can apparently convince some people of anything.



I love religious zealots.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:29:47 AM EDT
1911 too. I've had about 6 different Glocks and ended up selling or trading them all. My last Glock was a 30, that I just could not get comfortable with. I could hold it okay, I could hit with it very well, but I never felt I had full control of the gun, it never felt secure in my hands. I traded it for a custom Springfield 1911. Being left-handed, I too gave up on SIGs after the first one, a P-220. Not left-hand friendly in my opinion (the only one that really matters). I've always had at least one 1911, now I have two, they always feel "right", and point where my hand points them, not high like the Glocks did. Just a personal preference, I guess..==Bob
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:31:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
The 1911. There can be only one.

Gaston Glock is not worthy enough to wash John Moses Browning's feet.

The Glock is an incredible hoax, and I just don't understand how otherwise sensible people think it's a great pistol. Reminds me of the "Emperor's New Clothes" story. Marketing BS can apparently convince some people of anything.



Colonel Cooper is that you?

I think the High Power was more along the lines of what Mr. Browning wanted. It was the US military that demanded the grip safety.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:55:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:

Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
The 1911. There can be only one.

Gaston Glock is not worthy enough to wash John Moses Browning's feet.

The Glock is an incredible hoax, and I just don't understand how otherwise sensible people think it's a great pistol. Reminds me of the "Emperor's New Clothes" story. Marketing BS can apparently convince some people of anything.



Colonel Cooper is that you?

I think the High Power was more along the lines of what Mr. Browning wanted. It was the US military that demanded the grip safety.



Really he's right. It's just a single action that is safer if it is dropped. It's no safer with an idiot at the controls.

In the SA category I would agree, the HP is the most wonderful feeling pistol I have ever shot. It just points like a dream.

In the DA/SA area, my P99 takes top honors in feel and poinability. Being a DA/SA striker fired pistol it NEEDS the decocker to be rendered more "safe" than it already is.

SorryOciffer
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 3:10:47 AM EDT
How about both???I carry a 229 .40 as my duty gun, and a G27 on my ankle. I'd stake my life on either. like comparing apples and oranges. Both Glocks and Sigs will do all that is asked of them...
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 4:43:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:


The Glock is an incredible hoax, and I just don't understand how otherwise sensible people think it's a great pistol.



Where is the hoax?

The average Glock is a good reliable and accurate pistol that will last anyone a lifetime and if you know anything at all about the subject you know this. If not you should stay out of adult conversations about firearms.

The same thing goes for the IDIOTS that assume the Glock is a single action. If you are that stupid you should keep quiet and possibly no one will know just how ignorant you are.

Link Posted: 12/29/2003 5:38:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
The Glock is an incredible hoax, and I just don't understand how otherwise sensible people think it's a great pistol. Reminds me of the "Emperor's New Clothes" story. Marketing BS can apparently convince some people of anything.



Let me preface this by saying that I’m not trying to be a smart ass. I’m a novice when it comes to handguns so I’m just trying to learn as much as I can. I really do want to hear why you made this statement.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 8:00:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cornbread2:

Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:


The Glock is an incredible hoax, and I just don't understand how otherwise sensible people think it's a great pistol.



Where is the hoax?

The average Glock is a good reliable and accurate pistol that will last anyone a lifetime and if you know anything at all about the subject you know this. If not you should stay out of adult conversations about firearms.

The same thing goes for the IDIOTS that assume the Glock is a single action. If you are that stupid you should keep quiet and possibly no one will know just how ignorant you are.




Care to explain how the glock is NOT a single action? I have read a detailed description of how it operates written by glock. In the simplest description that is what it is. It just has a "safety" built in in case it is dropped.

SorryOciffer
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 8:35:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2003 8:40:19 AM EDT by cornbread2]
The trigger pull on a Glocks performs a double action. It pulls the striker to the rear and then releases it firing the pistol almost exactly like most other DA and DAO auto pistols.

That is not so hard to understand.

There is no way the Glock can be called a SA.

The ATF call it a DAO. So do ALL LEO agencys that use them. The IDPA shooters also put it in this catagory.

Perhaps they know more than you.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 8:38:11 AM EDT
"Care to explain how the glock is NOT a single action?"

Because the striker is not under enough spring tension to fire with the trigger forward. As the trigger is pulled rearward, so is the striker (ie: double action).

This is why a Glock is drop safe.

If you don't pull the trigger they don't go bang.

Some will say that to be a true double action it must have second strike capability. A Glock does not have this.

I think it would be better for everyone if Glocks, Steyrs and the others that use a striker are called striker fired not double or single action.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 8:42:08 AM EDT
Unlike the Glock the Steyr and Springfield XD are single action. Their strikers are fully cocked with a round in the chamber.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 8:44:02 AM EDT
Also a lot of DAO autos don't have the second strike.

The S&W DAO autos are like this but no one tends to claim they are SA.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 8:48:33 AM EDT
Alright, I will concede that it is a DAO. But is it any better than a SIG DAO? If reliability and function are even, I still have to go with the SIG for ergonomics and quality, and craftsmanship. What do you guys say?
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 9:04:11 AM EDT
I did not say the Glock was better than the Sig. If you like the Sig it will serve you well.

I just like the Glock better because of personal reasons and a lot of experience with both.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 10:23:43 AM EDT
Lets sum up what we have learned.

The Glock is the best DAO or striker fired.

The Sig is the best DA.

The High Power is the best SA. OK, maybe the 1911 too.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 1:37:48 PM EDT
I would certainly recommend a Glock to a new shooter. They are reliable, durable and relatively inexpensive as guns go. I have owned several. They have all worked well. The average person will never need anything better. With that said, for my own use I would prefer a Sig P226, HK P7M8, Browning HP, or especially a good 1911 to any Glock. That's just me. Watch-Six
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 2:27:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By knightone:
Alright, I will concede that it is a DAO. But is it any better than a SIG DAO? If reliability and function are even, I still have to go with the SIG for ergonomics and quality, and craftsmanship. What do you guys say?



I like the glock because it has one operating mechanism... the trigger. no de-cocker, safety, dial, switches, etc...
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 3:36:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:

Originally Posted By knightone:
Alright, I will concede that it is a DAO. But is it any better than a SIG DAO? If reliability and function are even, I still have to go with the SIG for ergonomics and quality, and craftsmanship. What do you guys say?



I like the glock because it has one operating mechanism... the trigger. no de-cocker, safety, dial, switches, etc...



Neither does a DAO SIG. That's double action only, not standard double action.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 11:33:22 PM EDT
right.. so immitation is the most sincere form of flattery. :) Glad Sig saw fit to make a DOA version just like a glock.

Link Posted: 12/30/2003 8:32:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:
right.. so immitation is the most sincere form of flattery. :) Glad Sig saw fit to make a DOA version just like a glock.




DOA...as in "dead on arrival"? DOA is right. Every Glock I have tried has been DOA in my opinion. Just picking on a Glock fan. It's all good.

Werent't there DAO pistols before Glock? Were there striker fired pistols before Glock? Hey maybe Gaston did come up with these things. I don't know. I still don't like the ergos though.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 8:58:16 PM EDT
LOL.... dao.. doa... potaeto potahto.

Yeah, if you don't like the grip angle you are hosed in glock land.

I actually like the larger framed 20/21 glocks than the skinny ones.
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 2:42:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snailfan:

I would love to own a Sig, however they do nothing for the left handed shooter.


I too am a lefty (as evidenced by the photo) & find the Sig as easy to operate as a Glock. Both have reversible mag releases & the only difference I see is with the decock lever found on the Sig. I have small hands and would not be able to decock the pistol with the thumb of my shooting hand anyway, so I have learned to use my index finger.




I am also a Sig-owning lefty. I had the mag release flipped around. I love my Sig. It was the first pistol I bought. BUT I carry a Glock when I carry. I like the Glock because the trigger has one weight, there are no externals (except mag release to mess with) and I can completely disassemble and gunsmith my Glock with confidence. I can't do the same with my Sig, but it has a special place in my safe
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 4:36:27 PM EDT
I like Glocks !
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 5:25:54 AM EDT
I have a P-226 and a P229, as well as the H&K USP Compact. They all have decockers. Really the only 2 times that I use them is 1) after I have cleaned and reassembled them to ensure everything is as it should be. The second time is when I am on the line at IPSC matches and told to "load and make ready."

Otherwise, I return to battery from slide lock by jerking the slide back with my other hand.

I don't like Glocks because 1) they feel like Mattel toys and 2) there is no visible hammer to tell me "Hey stupid !! you are cocked and are ready to fire in SA"

In fact, once I buy the P-220/.45 cal and a P-226/.40 cal., I will feel fulfilled !!
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:46:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sye5249:
I don't like Glocks because 1) they feel like Mattel toys and 2) there is no visible hammer to tell me "Hey stupid !! you are cocked and are ready to fire in SA"



The trigger being forward tells you the piece is "cocked".
Top Top