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Posted: 7/19/2013 6:52:44 PM EST
I am not at all an expert in pistols, so I came to ask for an advice from more knowledgeable people here. If you were a rather poor person and need to have a budget pistol as a concealed carry piece, which one would you rather have: the Hi Point or the Tokarev?

The reason I ask is because I have a friend who is rather poor. His concealed carry pistol right now is a 9mm Hi Point (not sure which model; striker fire, straight blow back, single stack magazine @ 9 rounds). I have a Chicom Tokarev in 9mm Luger that has been extremely reliable based on my experience shooting it over many years.

I was thinking about offering my friend to carry the Tokarev instead of the Hi Point. This friend of mine often works in "less than desirable" areas and I really think that if he must fire in self defense, the Tokarev is a more reliable pistol than the Hi Point.

Thank you all so very much for your advice and thoughts.

PS - I have a Smith and Wesson in .357 Magnum (Model 686), but this friend of mine can't hit the side of a barn yard with a revolver, so it is not an option. I also have a 1991 Colt, but that's my primary pistol, so I'm keeping that one
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 7:00:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2013 7:00:45 PM EST by Mister-Z]
I would personally much rather carry the Tokarev.

It's a very flat, low profile handgun that's much more conducive to concealed carry than the Hi Point.
I also suspect it's a better quality pistol mechanically, although I know there are guys that swear by the Hi points.

Link Posted: 7/19/2013 7:20:04 PM EST
Tok because it is not a hi point ,, but seriou;y as the poster above stated its flat and easy to carry,
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 7:35:52 PM EST
Thanks, guys. I really think (although I can't prove it) that the Tokarev is mechanically more sound than the Hi Point. I've had thousands of rounds through it without having malfunctions that were not "operator induced".

Now I need to convince my friend that the Tokarev is indeed a more reliable pistol. Maybe a trip to the range with a few hundred of rounds would convince him.
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 7:41:31 PM EST
I would find a used Glock 19/26 or even a Ruger P89 (although a bit large). They will be be super reliable.
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 7:59:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By les_strat:
I would find a used Glock 19/26 or even a Ruger P89 (although a bit large). They will be be super reliable.
View Quote


Hmmmm......I need to Google the price of those things. When I say "poor"........I mean "poor" - this friend of mine is a very responsible, hard working fella, it's just Lady Luck often leaves him with Mr. Murphy, instead. The Hi Point that he is carrying about, he bought it USED If he could be a decent shot with a revolver, I'd happily let him carry my .357 S&W.
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 8:06:19 PM EST
In regards to the Tok, IIRC you can't carry those (safely) with a round in the chamber. The hammer rests on the fireing pin, the fireing pin is long enough to rest on the primer, just like an old single action revolver. I could be wrong
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 3:58:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AASG:
In regards to the Tok, IIRC you can't carry those (safely) with a round in the chamber. The hammer rests on the fireing pin, the fireing pin is long enough to rest on the primer, just like an old single action revolver. I could be wrong
View Quote


They have a half-cock position on the hammer, the original military models had no safety. The imported Chinese and Yugo have added safeties, I do not trust the Chinese safeties and use the half-cock.

As the owner of both, the Hi-Point has been more reliable for me with the Tok being more accurate and easier to carry.

Look into a CZ-82 or Makarov pistol, they can normally be picked up for around $200 and are both extremely reliable and accurate while being cheap to feed.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:15:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:31:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By DoTheLindyHop:
I am not at all an expert in pistols, so I came to ask for an advice from more knowledgeable people here. If you were a rather poor person and need to have a budget pistol as a concealed carry piece, which one would you rather have: the Hi Point or the Tokarev?

The reason I ask is because I have a friend who is rather poor. His concealed carry pistol right now is a 9mm Hi Point (not sure which model; striker fire, straight blow back, single stack magazine @ 9 rounds). I have a Chicom Tokarev in 9mm Luger that has been extremely reliable based on my experience shooting it over many years.

I was thinking about offering my friend to carry the Tokarev instead of the Hi Point. This friend of mine often works in "less than desirable" areas and I really think that if he must fire in self defense, the Tokarev is a more reliable pistol than the Hi Point.

Thank you all so very much for your advice and thoughts.

PS - I have a Smith and Wesson in .357 Magnum (Model 686), but this friend of mine can't hit the side of a barn yard with a revolver, so it is not an option. I also have a 1991 Colt, but that's my primary pistol, so I'm keeping that one
View Quote


Your friend should trade the Hi-Point in and pay the difference and get a Kel Tek PF-9. They are only about $230 - 280 retail, hold 8 rounds, and kills a travyon first time, every time. Not a bad pocket pistol at that.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 6:03:54 AM EST
AIM is selling BRAND NEW Zastava built Yugo M-70 9mm Toks, with real safety mechanisms for $249.

Link Posted: 7/20/2013 8:11:17 AM EST
A guy brought a 9mm high point to our bowling pin shoots and it couldn't fire 3 rounds in a row without a failure of some kind. Absolute trash

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 8:21:55 AM EST
Find a bersa thunder instead. They really are very underrated quality pistols.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 9:33:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gabeowp:
Find a bersa thunder instead. They really are very underrated quality pistols.
View Quote


Another good recommendation.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 10:19:43 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By les_strat:


Another good recommendation.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By les_strat:
Originally Posted By gabeowp:
Find a bersa thunder instead. They really are very underrated quality pistols.


Another good recommendation.


+1
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 10:41:52 AM EST
Used Glock 19
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 12:21:36 PM EST
I would even find a used taurus or keltec over either of those options
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 2:03:21 PM EST
neither

I'd go with a CZ-82, while its chambered in 9x18 Makarov not 9x19 Parabellum, you have a DA/SA 12rd pistol with a good trigger that is easily concealable

Link Posted: 7/20/2013 2:17:17 PM EST
Old used police trade smith and Wesson 39 series gun- with trading in the high point you could probably get a used one for around 200 bucks and the best option yet. Get him practicing with a revolver until he can shoot one well and find a used police duty model ten- most look beat on the outside but are lightly used on the inside - carried a lot shot a little- my last one cost me 165 bucks not too long ago and he will be much better off than with a low quality auto.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 3:30:33 PM EST
buy a good pocket knife
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 6:10:53 PM EST
Thank you all for the very helpful responses - I will discuss those options with my friend. He said that he tried out the Hi Point a couple of boxes of ammo and he said as long as he didn't "limp wrist" the gun, it functioned well. Still, I think he needs to have a better pistol considering he works in not so desirable areas.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 6:11:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bills2961:
buy a good pocket knife
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A pocket knife will not do well in places where he must work at
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 7:14:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coyotesilencer:


They have a half-cock position on the hammer, the original military models had no safety. The imported Chinese and Yugo have added safeties, I do not trust the Chinese safeties and use the half-cock.

As the owner of both, the Hi-Point has been more reliable for me with the Tok being more accurate and easier to carry.

Look into a CZ-82 or Makarov pistol, they can normally be picked up for around $200 and are both extremely reliable and accurate while being cheap to feed.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coyotesilencer:
Originally Posted By AASG:
In regards to the Tok, IIRC you can't carry those (safely) with a round in the chamber. The hammer rests on the fireing pin, the fireing pin is long enough to rest on the primer, just like an old single action revolver. I could be wrong


They have a half-cock position on the hammer, the original military models had no safety. The imported Chinese and Yugo have added safeties, I do not trust the Chinese safeties and use the half-cock.

As the owner of both, the Hi-Point has been more reliable for me with the Tok being more accurate and easier to carry.

Look into a CZ-82 or Makarov pistol, they can normally be picked up for around $200 and are both extremely reliable and accurate while being cheap to feed.



If he is very poor and you are not, consider helping him out. Take him to the gun store and pay the difference he was going to spend on a cheap handgun.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 8:01:14 PM EST
Layaway is your friend's friend. Slap something on layaway and pay it off over a few months. A good quality used 9mm like XD or CZ should be relatively inexpensive unless the area you live in is full of panic buyers and flippers who keep the prices artificially high.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 3:32:27 AM EST
LOTS better options out there for the low price range. hell, he should even look at a Makarov. Cheap, small, goes bang every time.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 9:06:05 AM EST
The Tok is actually a very effective handgun. That said I would also look at a used Taurus, Smith and Wesson Third Gen, used Kahr.
But if this is what I could get I'd carry the Tok and put some practice rounds through it.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 4:31:31 PM EST
Used or new KelTec PF9

We just had a used one in our shop that went for $175

New they are at $300 or less. If it were a family member or really good friend that was truly struggling for money, I might go with him and let him trade in the Hi Point and I would pay the difference, give him some practice rounds and maybe have him buy a box of hollow points and a holster.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 5:57:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:



If he is very poor and you are not, consider helping him out. Take him to the gun store and pay the difference he was going to spend on a cheap handgun.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
Originally Posted By coyotesilencer:
Originally Posted By AASG:
In regards to the Tok, IIRC you can't carry those (safely) with a round in the chamber. The hammer rests on the fireing pin, the fireing pin is long enough to rest on the primer, just like an old single action revolver. I could be wrong


They have a half-cock position on the hammer, the original military models had no safety. The imported Chinese and Yugo have added safeties, I do not trust the Chinese safeties and use the half-cock.

As the owner of both, the Hi-Point has been more reliable for me with the Tok being more accurate and easier to carry.

Look into a CZ-82 or Makarov pistol, they can normally be picked up for around $200 and are both extremely reliable and accurate while being cheap to feed.



If he is very poor and you are not, consider helping him out. Take him to the gun store and pay the difference he was going to spend on a cheap handgun.


Not a bad idea at all. I'll discuss this with him.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 6:00:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 92muddyXJ:
Used or new KelTec PF9

We just had a used one in our shop that went for $175

New they are at $300 or less. If it were a family member or really good friend that was truly struggling for money, I might go with him and let him trade in the Hi Point and I would pay the difference, give him some practice rounds and maybe have him buy a box of hollow points and a holster.
View Quote


I like the KelTec and Makarov option.

I'd like to once again thank everybody who replied to this thread. There are many good ideas here. Much appreciated.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 6:24:24 PM EST
FEG Hi-Power clone.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 6:57:31 PM EST
Any surplus Com-Bloc gun will be better than a modern offering in the same price range IMO.

P64, PA63, Makarov, Tokarev, CZ82, etc.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 1:24:48 AM EST
If I had to choose between a Hi-Point or a Tok for CCW... hold on, is there a 3rd option? Toks are cool, but are probably one of my last choices for a CCW. I'd rather get shot by a bad guy than try to explain how I shot my own butt off. Hi-Point? I'm not a gun snob, but jeez man, it's like the official gun of the welfare nation. Imagine how embarrassing it'd be for your friend next time he gets robbed when he realizes both he and the perp brought the same gun to the ball.

I'm poor as a church mouse, but I have enough guns & ammo to keep the hordes at bay for years. Sounds like your friends money problem isn't as big as his lack of seriousness towards CCW problem. CCW'ing a Hi-Point is kinda retarded. Low capacity and too clunky to lug around in a nylon Velcro holster.

There isn't a large gap in price between junk guns and good guns these days. S&W SD9 is like low $300's. I actually picked up a Sigma with 4 mags for $250 after rebate. Same deal with Bersas, Rugers and a whole gaggle of Turkish made clone guns. I know I'm probably making it sound easy, but eat rice & beans for a few weeks and save that extra $100 if you must. Cheaping out on your CCW is like using vet grade meds for your health care.

...I've actually used dog antibiotics before, but you get what I mean.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 2:19:23 AM EST
Tokarev over Hi Point any day of the week. Hi Points suck. However, you would be better served with a a used firearm by Glock, Sig or S&W.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 4:27:35 AM EST
Sell both and buy a SD9.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 9:05:42 AM EST
There are much better options for the price range

cz82
makarov
Bersa 380.
kel-tec
ect
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 11:37:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pacodutaco:
Tokarev over Hi Point any day of the week. Hi Points suck. However, you would be better served with a a used firearm by Glock, Sig or S&W.
View Quote


I carry a Hi Point 45 everyday and havent had any problems with it. ive put about 700 rounds thru it and its served me well. I bet all the people that bash Hi Point have probably never even shot one
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 2:58:43 PM EST
Tokarev.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 3:58:00 PM EST
CZ-82

Can be carried hammer cocked with the safety on like a 1911, or safety off with the hammer down (double action). One thing I really don't like is the lack of a decocker, so you have to manually lower the hammer if you want to shoot it double action. Better hope your finger doesn't slip.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 2:47:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/25/2013 2:53:14 AM EST by Makarov]
While the Tokarev design is dated and has its issues, I believe the current Zastava produced pistols are a GREAT bang for the buck. I have a surplus M57 that is well-built and functions flawlessly as a shooter. I will probably pick up a new production M70A in 9x19 based on this experience.


Would I take the Tokarev design over a GLock? - NO WAY!

Would I take the Tokarev design over a Hi-Point? - EVERY GODDAMN DAY OF THE WEEK!

The Zastava M57 and M70A are well built and offer a tremendous value at ~$250 for a new production handgun. Also, for those with a concern, the magazine safety is easily disabled.

ETA- Please note that I have only fired my M57 with FMJ ammunition. I have no first-hand knowledge of how these guns function with a modern hollow-point design.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 2:48:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/25/2013 2:50:14 AM EST by Makarov]
Sorry, double-tap
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