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Link Posted: 11/13/2020 1:13:20 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
@NCPatrolAR
@03RN

I <3 G19s, ... but If someone gave me this gun, I would shoot it, a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEBMDjpiwR0
View Quote



Ive been tempted to send a slide to LTT but that front sight.............
Link Posted: 11/13/2020 8:30:57 PM EST
To many Glocks in this thread..............



cp
Link Posted: 11/13/2020 8:34:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2020 8:34:51 PM EST by Bradd_D]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eaglecp:
To many Glocks in this thread..............

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/IqLVX2.jpg

cp
View Quote
Get out!


Link Posted: 11/13/2020 9:15:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Get out!


View Quote


cp
Link Posted: 11/13/2020 10:06:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eaglecp:
To many Glocks in this thread..............

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/IqLVX2.jpg

cp
View Quote
That's ... a clue
Link Posted: 11/14/2020 9:10:38 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:



Ive been tempted to send a slide to LTT but that front sight.............
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
@NCPatrolAR
@03RN

I <3 G19s, ... but If someone gave me this gun, I would shoot it, a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEBMDjpiwR0



Ive been tempted to send a slide to LTT but that front sight.............


I wish he'd mill non vertec slides. I understand why but still
Link Posted: 11/14/2020 1:53:55 PM EST
I used to be in the "muh irons are just as gud" camp. After experience with red dots, I realized I was wrong. They are superior. The technology is now there for the needed reliability. I waited, now it's time to take action and make the upgrade. Why limit yourself with just irons? Get both and move on.

Link Posted: 11/14/2020 3:55:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
That's ... a clue
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Fooboy:
Originally Posted By eaglecp:
To many Glocks in this thread..............

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/IqLVX2.jpg

cp
That's ... a clue


GLOCK Guys......
cp
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 5:01:55 PM EST


One big happy dotted family
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 5:39:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2020 10:05:55 AM EST by SiGfever]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eaglecp:
To many Glocks in this thread..............

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/IqLVX2.jpg

cp
View Quote

The RMR looks good on your P320 XCompact, (XCarry) I have toyed with getting a plate for mine. The milled slide on my G19.3 looks like the RMR grew there.
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 7:14:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2020 7:16:01 PM EST by eaglecp]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SiGfever:

The RMR looks good on your P320 XCompact, I have toyed with getting a plate for mine. The milled slide on my G19.3 looks like the RMR grew there.
View Quote


Thanks! That is Actually a Carry. Has the Pro Cut Slide. 3.9" bbl. It actually has a Wilson Grip Module on it now. Was letting a buddy try my Wilson over the weekend, But had just RMR on and wanted to take a pic.
cp
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 7:44:58 PM EST
Yesterday I had my OZ9 w/RMR at the range, and I decided to try the 9 inch gongs at 105 yards from a rest. It took me two shots to get proper range, and from then on, I was able to hit the gongs almost every time. While this is no endorsement of my marksmanship, it was actually pretty fun.
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 8:09:17 PM EST
Is this even under question still? Not a trend or opinion, it's simply better. Now, if you like running irons on your rifle and/ or are just an old dog, run what you're good at. Who cares.
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 11:14:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2020 11:16:01 PM EST by StowaNewb]
Well I guess I'm going to mill my slide and buy an RMR. It is concerning that some people in thread have gone through 7k+ rounds and are not seeing the benefit and are slower on presentment.

Because the slide milling and RMR are going to cost a little over $800, this is going to be an expensive test.

I'm still young, but I figure my eyes will eventually go, and I don't want to try and learn to use a pistol red dot when I'm 65.
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 11:22:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StowaNewb:
Well I guess I'm going to mill my slide and buy an RMR. It is concerning that some people in thread have gone through 7k+ rounds and are not seeing the benefit and are slower on presentment.

Because the slide milling and RMR are going to cost a little over $800, this is going to be an expensive test.

I'm still young, but I figure my eyes will eventually go, and I don't want to try and learn to use a pistol red dot when I'm 65.
View Quote
It's all presentation and can be done via dry fire at home ... confirm at the range.

It took me one box of ammo because I had a good presentation.

buy a box of snap caps and enjoy the ride.
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 11:54:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StowaNewb:
Well I guess I'm going to mill my slide and buy an RMR. It is concerning that some people in thread have gone through 7k+ rounds and are not seeing the benefit and are slower on presentment.

Because the slide milling and RMR are going to cost a little over $800, this is going to be an expensive test.

I'm still young, but I figure my eyes will eventually go, and I don't want to try and learn to use a pistol red dot when I'm 65.
View Quote


You can learn 90% of the dot before firing a single live round.

Start off with the gun in hand, raise it your shooting grip and point it at a target on the wall.  Focus on the target and let the gun come into view without focusing on it.  What helped me was to think of bringing the rear plate up in line with your nose (got that bit from Sage Dynamics I think).  Do this until the dot comes into view as you put the gun on target.

Next, do the same drill but start from a holster.  Do it until the dot lands on the target as the gun comes up without you having to shift your grip after presenting the gun.

Third, add in trigger squeeze.  Watch the dot, it will immediately betray any issues with your trigger squeeze because it is tied to where the bore is pointed.  If your trigger squeeze and grip isn't perfect the dot will jump when you pull the trigger.

Lastly, practice transitioning between two or more targets.  Put the dot on the first target, then move to a different target at least a few feet away.  Think about where your eyes are going and what you're focusing on while you do this.  The goal is to make the gun an extension of your body so your focus can be 100% on the targets and the dot naturally falls into view when you point the gun.

You should be able to pick all this up in less than 5 cumulative hours of practice.  Spread it out over a few days in 30 minute sessions.  Then go to the range. I bet you'll shoot just fine with the dot.
Link Posted: 11/16/2020 9:23:32 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StowaNewb:
Well I guess I'm going to mill my slide and buy an RMR. It is concerning that some people in thread have gone through 7k+ rounds and are not seeing the benefit and are slower on presentment.

Because the slide milling and RMR are going to cost a little over $800, this is going to be an expensive test.

I'm still young, but I figure my eyes will eventually go, and I don't want to try and learn to use a pistol red dot when I'm 65.
View Quote


If they are expending 7k rounds and still not seeing the benefit.
List the Dot on the EE it will sell quick

I was FIRMLY in the it’s a fad camp.As many here will testify to..
I went all in Zev Slide Suppressor Hight sights and an RMR
Figured if I was going to do it may as well do it right.
Dry fire is the key IMO.If you cannot in a few hours start to get the for quickly. You may have never been that great with a pistol before trying a dot. But even if that’s the case you can without firing a shot or leaving the comfort of your home.
Get the basics down.
And you will discover as I did I am sure. Your accuracy will improve.
Now I’m not claiming to be a master ninja pistol shooter. But with some effort and reading up on dots I now can use one effectively.
And I’m sure you will have the same or better results in less than 7 thousand rounds
Hell where can you even find that much ammo in stock!
Link Posted: 11/16/2020 9:01:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2020 9:06:05 PM EST by PhilDNice]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StowaNewb:
Well I guess I'm going to mill my slide and buy an RMR. It is concerning that some people in thread have gone through 7k+ rounds and are not seeing the benefit and are slower on presentment.

Because the slide milling and RMR are going to cost a little over $800, this is going to be an expensive test.

I'm still young, but I figure my eyes will eventually go, and I don't want to try and learn to use a pistol red dot when I'm 65.
View Quote


You have to listen to experienced reddot shooters.  Take any tips they can provide.  Dry fire also helped me a lot.    Also you have to be able to diagnosis any bad habits you have because a dot is not as forgiving as irons if you have bad habits.  

I made a bunch of mini targets and put them in my living room.  When I got my dot I practiced drawing from a holster and picking gun up from a table for about 30 min a day.  


 
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 12:01:35 AM EST
I can finally join the party! Slide milling and Cerakote was done by BattleWerx.

Link Posted: 11/17/2020 4:54:21 PM EST
Joining the party. Have had an FNX45T with an RMR for a while, but it isn't terribly practical as a carry gun. This, however, just arrived back from Agency Arms today and, when paired with the 507c I picked up at a smoking price on Veteran's Day, is completely practical for EDC...


Link Posted: 11/17/2020 4:59:23 PM EST
@triburst1

join us.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 6:40:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
@triburst1

join us.
View Quote


@Fooboy thanks for the invite.

I checked in last week with pics on page 20.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 7:07:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eaglecp:
To many Glocks in this thread..............

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/IqLVX2.jpg

cp
View Quote

AgreedAttachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 7:09:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2020 7:11:09 PM EST by Henny]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PhilDNice:


You have to listen to experienced reddot shooters.  Take any tips they can provide.  Dry fire also helped me a lot.    Also you have to be able to diagnosis any bad habits you have because a dot is not as forgiving as irons if you have bad habits.  

I made a bunch of mini targets and put them in my living room.  When I got my dot I practiced drawing from a holster and picking gun up from a table for about 30 min a day.  


 https://i.ibb.co/h2fw1wc/20200813-203113.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/yS2hSWp/20200815-145019.jpg
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I’m glad I’m not the only one with targets around the house!  

It’s acceptable because my wife does a lot of dry firing too.

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We both use MantisX devices. It did wonders for cleaning up my trigger pull!

By the way there’s an ARFCOM group in the app, if anyone wants to join.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 7:38:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By triburst1:


@Fooboy thanks for the invite.

I checked in last week with pics on page 20.
View Quote
Oops

saw your thread bringing sound doctrine to the heathens of GD and figured you'd need a home after the thread ran its course.
Link Posted: 11/17/2020 7:40:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PhilDNice:


You have to listen to experienced reddot shooters.  Take any tips they can provide.  Dry fire also helped me a lot.    Also you have to be able to diagnosis any bad habits you have because a dot is not as forgiving as irons if you have bad habits.  

I made a bunch of mini targets and put them in my living room.  When I got my dot I practiced drawing from a holster and picking gun up from a table for about 30 min a day.  


 https://i.ibb.co/h2fw1wc/20200813-203113.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/yS2hSWp/20200815-145019.jpg
View Quote
Phil is local to me. I remember the day I handed him my first milled G19 after a match.

Now he's posting in my thread. *snif*
Link Posted: 11/18/2020 9:27:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
Phil is local to me. I remember the day I handed him my first milled G19 after a match.

Now he's posting in my thread. *snif*
View Quote


I'm sold on the dot.  Waiting for black friday to get my M&P shield cut for a 407k/507k, and start carrying with a dot.


Link Posted: 11/21/2020 6:32:08 PM EST
For a nightstand gun, or indiscreet /open carry gun, or competition gun, sure. For a CCW EDC, no thanks
Link Posted: 11/21/2020 6:41:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pebble:
For a nightstand gun, or indiscreet /open carry gun, or competition gun, sure. For a CCW EDC, no thanks
View Quote
Autobots ... ASSEMBLE
Link Posted: 11/21/2020 6:47:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pebble:
For a nightstand gun, or indiscreet /open carry gun, or competition gun, sure. For a CCW EDC, no thanks
View Quote
Is your concern comfort when carrying iwb?
Link Posted: 11/22/2020 7:44:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2021 5:45:04 PM EST by SiGfever]
My new EDC.... I modified my JM Custom Kydex "Wing 2.5" holster, installed Discreet Carry Clips and cut the holster for the red dot.

Link Posted: 11/22/2020 9:10:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/23/2020 12:54:45 PM EST by Fooboy]
Did some shooting today with some buddies for a little friendly match (5 stages).   Of the 7 of us, 6 have dots now

8 inch plates at 50Y

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Link Posted: 11/22/2020 9:15:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pebble:
For a nightstand gun, or indiscreet /open carry gun, or competition gun, sure. For a CCW EDC, no thanks
View Quote


@pebble what makes you hesitant to conceal carry a red dot equipped gun, but doesn't prevent you from thinking it would be fine for open carry or competition?
Link Posted: 11/22/2020 9:30:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sonoran_Tj:


@pebble what makes you hesitant to conceal carry a red dot equipped gun, but doesn't prevent you from thinking it would be fine for open carry or competition?
View Quote


Because its a trade off that reduces concealability (the most important thing in concealed carry) for improved target acquisition speed for small targets, which is not relevant in any realistic defensive scenarios.

For open carry, concealability is not an issue so it has no downside..and for target shooting, target acquisition speed and precision is obviously the primary focus
Link Posted: 11/22/2020 9:40:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pebble:


Because its a trade off that reduces concealability (the most important thing in concealed carry) for improved target acquisition speed for small targets, which is not relevant in any realistic defensive scenarios.

For open carry, concealability is not an issue so it has no downside..and for target shooting, target acquisition speed and precision is obviously the primary focus
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By pebble:
Originally Posted By Sonoran_Tj:


@pebble what makes you hesitant to conceal carry a red dot equipped gun, but doesn't prevent you from thinking it would be fine for open carry or competition?


Because its a trade off that reduces concealability (the most important thing in concealed carry) for improved target acquisition speed for small targets, which is not relevant in any realistic defensive scenarios.

For open carry, concealability is not an issue so it has no downside..and for target shooting, target acquisition speed and precision is obviously the primary focus


I personally have had no issues with concealing an RMR on my Sig P320 compact.  I carry appendix and the red dot sits just above my belt buckle.  Even if I carried 3 o'clock the red dot sits against my hip and doesn't protrude enough to limit concealability.  I'm curious to see if others have this issue.

I'm also faster at all ranges with the red dot than I am with iron sights.  A red dot allows me to remain threat focused and still accurately aim where iron sights require at some point for me to focus on the sights and not the target.  Range to target doesn't factor into this.
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 6:34:14 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Fooboy:
Did some shooting today with some buddies for a little friendly match (5 stages).   Of the 7 of us, 6 have dots now

Afterward we moved back to 50Y. These are 8 inch plates. I shot it clean first time and then wanted to get it on video ... with typical results (dropped 2 shots).  I can do better but whatever ... no cherry picking.  Plus 5 seconds for vertical vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghLUTX1sysI
View Quote

Nice job!

Back on page 11 I posted a video of me shooting at a distant target. I’m still doing the same drill. Red dots make shooting  distant targets FUN!  By the way my target is a full sized IPSC.

A newer video of the same drill:

Link Posted: 11/23/2020 7:37:39 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sonoran_Tj:
I'm also faster at all ranges with the red dot than I am with iron sights.  A red dot allows me to remain threat focused and still accurately aim where iron sights require at some point for me to focus on the sights and not the target.  Range to target doesn't factor into this.
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I think Appendix carry holsters allow you to conceal the largest weapons so that doesn’t surprise me. I’ve tried it, but did not find it comfortable. I like to be able to wear my belt a little bit looser than works with a wing.

After trying every type of holster under the sun, by far my favorite method of carry is using a techna clip. I find that no extra material just makes the overall package that much thinner, more comfortable and concealable. The techna clip carries it deeper than most holsters which helps to bury the handgrip into my body and not print when I bend over.
I like not having any extra weight. I clip onto my pants under the belt so the clip itself is hidden. I like being able to quickly remove the gun and have no trace of a holster left behind. It keeps it very secure no matter how much jumping or running I do.

If I want to carry one in the chamber, I have a trigger guard that ties into the belt. I don’t like this though because it’s can only be unholstered using a fast draw which makes a snapping sound, and I think it’s equally likely I might want to use a stealthy draw, so I just carry it with an empty chamber.
Where it rides the rmr would be below the waistline, printing, uncomfortable and a snag hazard.

Long story short, what’s best for one person isn’t always best for the other cause we all have different priorities

One more con to the rmr I have noticed though is that my instinct is to present the gun looking down the iron sights. Do this with an rmr and the dot is off the glass. I have to consciously tilt my head up from what feels natural to find the dot. I’ve handed it to some friends and they could not find the dot and handed it back confused. Iron sights will never have that issue. I am sure this can be overcome with training, but in a stressful situation I could see someone not finding the dot and just panicking and shooting without a visible point of aim. With iron sights, the equivalent would be not aligning the front and rear.
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 7:55:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/23/2020 12:52:22 PM EST by Fooboy]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pebble:


I think Appendix carry holsters allow you to conceal the largest weapons so that doesn't surprise me. I've tried it, but did not find it comfortable. I like to be able to wear my belt a little bit looser than works with a wing.

After trying every type of holster under the sun, by far my favorite method of carry is using a techna clip. I find that no extra material just makes the overall package that much thinner, more comfortable and concealable. The techna clip carries it deeper than most holsters which helps to bury the handgrip into my body and not print when I bend over.
I like not having any extra weight. I clip onto my pants under the belt so the clip itself is hidden. I like being able to quickly remove the gun and have no trace of a holster left behind. It keeps it very secure no matter how much jumping or running I do.

If I want to carry one in the chamber, I have a trigger guard that ties into the belt. I don't like this though because it's can only be unholstered using a fast draw which makes a snapping sound, and I think it's equally likely I might want to use a stealthy draw, so I just carry it with an empty chamber.
Where it rides the rmr would be below the waistline, printing, uncomfortable and a snag hazard.

Long story short, what's best for one person isn't always best for the other cause we all have different priorities

One more con to the rmr I have noticed though is that my instinct is to present the gun looking down the iron sights. Do this with an rmr and the dot is off the glass. I have to consciously tilt my head up from what feels natural to find the dot. I've handed it to some friends and they could not find the dot and handed it back confused. Iron sights will never have that issue. I am sure this can be overcome with training, but in a stressful situation I could see someone not finding the dot and just panicking and shooting without a visible point of aim. With iron sights, the equivalent would be not aligning the front and rear.
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Ha.  You cast doubts on something that by any metric makes you a faster / more accurate / more effective shooter and you carry an empty gun with a technaclip?

This is like a someone from the 1800s who shoots a blunderbuss lecturing on the downsides of low power variable optics.
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 8:57:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/23/2020 12:52:08 PM EST by Fooboy]
...

Link Posted: 11/23/2020 9:40:37 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pebble:


Because its a trade off that reduces concealability (the most important thing in concealed carry) for improved target acquisition speed for small targets, which is not relevant in any realistic defensive scenarios.

For open carry, concealability is not an issue so it has no downside..and for target shooting, target acquisition speed and precision is obviously the primary focus
View Quote





Only advantageous for small targets at distance?  You've never been under real force on force stress, have you?  I suggest you take a real force on force class with airsoft  or simunitions, then report back with what you've learned.  Hint: You'll learn that you're going to point shoot and stay target focused, not focusing on your front site, even at a human target less than 6 feet away.

Regarding concealment - an RMR or H-Sun don't add that much to the footprint with respect to printing and concealment.  Your grip length is what really drives concealment and printing factor.  The RDS is positioned at the part of the slide that is already in the same location as the bulk of the gun and holster.  

Honestly, your post comes across as someone with no experience who is trying to justify his choices - or more specifically, insult the choices of others - by attempting to down-talk them.  Frankly, it comes across as a little bit ignorant.
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 9:46:02 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pebble:


I think Appendix carry holsters allow you to conceal the largest weapons so that doesn’t surprise me. I’ve tried it, but did not find it comfortable. I like to be able to wear my belt a little bit looser than works with a wing.

After trying every type of holster under the sun, by far my favorite method of carry is using a techna clip. I find that no extra material just makes the overall package that much thinner, more comfortable and concealable. The techna clip carries it deeper than most holsters which helps to bury the handgrip into my body and not print when I bend over.
I like not having any extra weight. I clip onto my pants under the belt so the clip itself is hidden. I like being able to quickly remove the gun and have no trace of a holster left behind. It keeps it very secure no matter how much jumping or running I do.

If I want to carry one in the chamber, I have a trigger guard that ties into the belt. I don’t like this though because it’s can only be unholstered using a fast draw which makes a snapping sound, and I think it’s equally likely I might want to use a stealthy draw, so I just carry it with an empty chamber.
Where it rides the rmr would be below the waistline, printing, uncomfortable and a snag hazard.

Long story short, what’s best for one person isn’t always best for the other cause we all have different priorities

One more con to the rmr I have noticed though is that my instinct is to present the gun looking down the iron sights. Do this with an rmr and the dot is off the glass. I have to consciously tilt my head up from what feels natural to find the dot. I’ve handed it to some friends and they could not find the dot and handed it back confused. Iron sights will never have that issue. I am sure this can be overcome with training, but in a stressful situation I could see someone not finding the dot and just panicking and shooting without a visible point of aim. With iron sights, the equivalent would be not aligning the front and rear.
View Quote



Whether the rest of your post has credibility or not (and much of it doesn't particularly your complaints about picking up the dot), you lost every ounce of credibility you had when you insinuated that you carry without a round in the chamber.

Have you really ever put yourself on a timer at the range?  I mean time yourself with how you actually carry everyday?  Clear your cover, get your gun out of the holster, uh sorry, clip, chamber a round and get off 1 or 2 GOOD shots on target?

Let me guess, you think that you'll always have time to be stealthy?  You'll always see the threat long before it is in your face, right?
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 12:00:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pebble:


I think Appendix carry holsters allow you to conceal the largest weapons so that doesn’t surprise me. I’ve tried it, but did not find it comfortable. I like to be able to wear my belt a little bit looser than works with a wing.

After trying every type of holster under the sun, by far my favorite method of carry is using a techna clip. I find that no extra material just makes the overall package that much thinner, more comfortable and concealable. The techna clip carries it deeper than most holsters which helps to bury the handgrip into my body and not print when I bend over.
I like not having any extra weight. I clip onto my pants under the belt so the clip itself is hidden. I like being able to quickly remove the gun and have no trace of a holster left behind. It keeps it very secure no matter how much jumping or running I do.

If I want to carry one in the chamber, I have a trigger guard that ties into the belt. I don’t like this though because it’s can only be unholstered using a fast draw which makes a snapping sound, and I think it’s equally likely I might want to use a stealthy draw, so I just carry it with an empty chamber.
Where it rides the rmr would be below the waistline, printing, uncomfortable and a snag hazard.

Long story short, what’s best for one person isn’t always best for the other cause we all have different priorities

One more con to the rmr I have noticed though is that my instinct is to present the gun looking down the iron sights. Do this with an rmr and the dot is off the glass. I have to consciously tilt my head up from what feels natural to find the dot. I’ve handed it to some friends and they could not find the dot and handed it back confused. Iron sights will never have that issue. I am sure this can be overcome with training, but in a stressful situation I could see someone not finding the dot and just panicking and shooting without a visible point of aim. With iron sights, the equivalent would be not aligning the front and rear.
View Quote


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Link Posted: 11/23/2020 12:43:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Fooboy:
Ha.  You cast doubts on something that by any metric makes you a faster / more accurate / more effective shooter and you carry an empty gun with a technaclip?

This is like a someone from the 1800s who shoots a blunderbuss lecturing on the downsides of low power variable optics.  

I am reminded of this comic. You are the chicken, and you have floated into the Pistol Optic Samuri Bar

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Not lecturing by any means! We just have different priorities for an EDC gun.  One can always be "more prepared," but being more prepared means carrying more weight.  You've made sacrifices too.  Your full sized handgun with extra mags and RMR is still going to be outgunned by just about any AR15...but do you make an AR15 pistol your EDC gun? Probably not.  You decided to take a handgun with RMR, sacrificing accuracy, capacity, lethality, and speed in favor of concealability and ease of carry...and there's nothing wrong with that.

I think it makes sense to carry according to one's perceived threat level and risk tolerance.  That really is different for every person.  For me, I'm at home or in my car the majority of the time and have multiple options within practically an arms reach.  A fully loaded AR pistol chambered in 300 blackout if I need it, a full sized Glock with RMR, and a lighter EDC gun on my person.  Given the proximity of larger guns, I don't feel the need to carry more in my waist band.
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 12:51:13 PM EST
I was going to respond to the “not for concealment” post until I got to the “empty chamber” post. At that point, I decided to spend my time discussing pistol red dots with my cat instead.
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 1:19:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By triburst1:
I was going to respond to the “not for concealment” post until I got to the “empty chamber” post. At that point, I decided to spend my time discussing pistol red dots with my cat instead.
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One day....ONE DAY... I will catch that red dot....
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 2:00:36 PM EST
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Originally Posted By CatSnipah:


Only advantageous for small targets at distance?  You've never been under real force on force stress, have you?  I suggest you take a real force on force class with airsoft  or simunitions, then report back with what you've learned.  Hint: You'll learn that you're going to point shoot and stay target focused, not focusing on your front site, even at a human target less than 6 feet away.
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Originally Posted By CatSnipah:


Only advantageous for small targets at distance?  You've never been under real force on force stress, have you?  I suggest you take a real force on force class with airsoft  or simunitions, then report back with what you've learned.  Hint: You'll learn that you're going to point shoot and stay target focused, not focusing on your front site, even at a human target less than 6 feet away.


Well, I agree with your "hint."  if I am caught in an engagement at close range and need to make a quick shot, I'm not going to be focusing on my front site or my micro RDS....I have enough muscle memory that hitting a man sized target at close ranges doesn't require an aiming device.  If I do need to shoot at smaller targets, or targets at a distance, that's when aiming is required, and a red dot will always be faster than irons. That's exactly why I said that the RDS is only advantageous for small targets at a distance.  

Funny you should mention Airsoft as I've been playing airsoft, mostly milsim, for almost 20 years now.  I recently picked up 3gun as well (haven't done either since the pandemic hit though).  I don't participate in either of these sports thinking that it's going to prepare me for real force on force.  I do them only because I enjoy the sport.  Do I learn something from it?  I think yes and no.  I've learned a lot of things that apply, and probably also picked up some bad habits that don't apply.  


Regarding concealment - an RMR or H-Sun don't add that much to the footprint with respect to printing and concealment.  Your grip length is what really drives concealment and printing factor.  The RDS is positioned at the part of the slide that is already in the same location as the bulk of the gun and holster.  


I've come to the same conclusion about grip length.  But in my case, the two are related.  I've found that the best way to conceal grip length on my body is by tilting the gun forward which would put the RDS under the belt line.  If I am running a RDS, I can't really do that, and it would force me to expose more of the grip.

Honestly, your post comes across as someone with no experience who is trying to justify his choices - or more specifically, insult the choices of others - by attempting to down-talk them.  Frankly, it comes across as a little bit ignorant.


Personal defense is a personal choice.  Some people choose not to defend themselves at all.  Other people may choose to carry a micro pistol, and others may choose to carry a full sized pistol with red dot and extra mags, still others may carry a full sized AR on their back.  To each their own.  I choose to carry less because I'm willing to sacrifice defensive capability for comfort, and because I have other more capable options at the ready.  My decision to carry less is in no wan in insult to your decision to carry more.  


Whether the rest of your post has credibility or not (and much of it doesn't particularly your complaints about picking up the dot), you lost every ounce of credibility you had when you insinuated that you carry without a round in the chamber.


I guess your definition of credibility = agreeing with the hive mind.  In that case, yes, I have zero credibility.  Again, the decision to carry, and what to carry, and how to carry it, is really a personal decision that depends on your own perceived risks and tolerances.  Anyone who insists that there is only 1 best way to carry and anyone who does differently is wrong is very close minded.  There are pros and cons to carrying in the chamber.  The pros are that you have +1 capacity and a faster first shot.  The cons are that you need to carry a holster that protects the trigger guard, and a higher risk for AD (obviously, an AD is impossible if you never make an accident, but accidents can and do happen).  I'm not going to push one over the other.  I think everyone should understand the pros and cons, then make a personal decision.


Have you really ever put yourself on a timer at the range?  I mean time yourself with how you actually carry everyday?  Clear your cover, get your gun out of the holster, uh sorry, clip, chamber a round and get off 1 or 2 GOOD shots on target?


Yes I have.  And I'm faster and more accurate with my RMR than I am with iron sights...and faster than that using my AR's.  Speed and accuracy of target acquisition is not my primary factor when selecting a EDC gun however.  It may be for you, and there's nothing wrong with that.  I just have different priorities I guess.

Let me guess, you think that you'll always have time to be stealthy?  You'll always see the threat long before it is in your face, right?


Not at all.  There are some situations where I may see the threat long before it's in my face, and there are other situations where I don't.  If I do see the threat long before it's coming, then draw speed does not matter.  I'm more concerned about the situations where the threat surprises me...and he pulls a gun before I do.  In this scenario, I'm not going to immediately draw my gun because he's got the advantage.  Sure, with enough training and practice, you may be able to draw, aim and shoot before the bad guy can just shoot, but he starts with an advantage.  My personal preference would not be draw until the threat is either distracted/looking away, or is attempting to disarm me.  There are risks to both approaches, and ultimately your decision of how to react, and how you prepare, is a personal one.  Not everyone has the same strategy, and that's not wrong IMO.
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 4:34:30 PM EST
If you don't carry with a round in the chamber...

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Link Posted: 11/23/2020 5:11:03 PM EST
No one in the history of ever has wanted to intentionally slow down their draw-to-fire time.  The only vaguely credible entity that advocates for empty chamber carry is the Israeli military and they only do that because its a conscript army and they don't trust conscripts to carry a loaded weapon without shooting themselves or others.

You've built up a strawman against a pistol red dot with the need to conceal deeper than apparently everyone else with your clip thing and exposed trigger, then determined you need to carry in a slow and inherently dangerous (to your preparedness) way by carrying with an empty chamber.  Further, you justify this argument by saying you have a layered defense with a nearby red dot-equipped handgun and/or AR.

So basically you haven't figured out how to carry in a concealed and prepared manner effectively, but that doesn't matter anyway because you have other guns you could use that are either rifles or do have a red dot.  Why the fuck would you carry an unloaded handgun around if you had an AR and a full size red dot-equipped handgun nearby?  You don't have to answer that because I'm concerned your answer will actually give me an aneurysm.


This whole thread is about how modern micro red dots are small enough and durable enough for real world use.  These aren't C-more dots on 2011s with frame mounts any more.  These modern dot equipped guns are not only durable and small enough to conceal carry, they are also the new standard in speed and accuracy.  You can accept that truth, or you can make an argument why that isn't true.
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 7:16:58 PM EST




....pardon the interruption
Link Posted: 11/23/2020 7:20:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Pleaforwar:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50639492676_833aff27cf_k.jpg



....pardon the interruption
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Id like to try a comp at some point
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