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Posted: 7/17/2006 7:20:06 AM EDT
I have the HK P2k V2 model.  I'm looking to do the trigger job to reduce the trigger pull to 5.5lbs.  This is listed on the HKPro forums.  The 2 places suggested for getting the 2 springs is on backorder.  Anyone know of other places that have the 2 springs in stock.

Firing Pin Block Spring #214192
Trigger Return Spring #214164

Thanks
Link Posted: 7/17/2006 2:02:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Have you tried Numrich (www.e-gunparts.com)? The other place I know of is www.hkpartsonline.com.

I have done this exact conversion on my P2000 V.2. I think you will really like it. Good luck mate.
Link Posted: 7/17/2006 3:44:42 PM EDT
[#2]
I tried both and both were backordered.  I ordered the parts anyways, but it would be nice to find the parts in stock.

I shot it last night at 20m and it was pretty darn accurate with a rest.  Freehand is another story.  I'm hoping the less trigger pull will help out.
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 1:05:55 PM EDT
[#3]
I just ordered another set of springs from Numrich this weekend. They were mailed out today, so I guess they have them back in stock. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 3:41:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Well I got my Firing Block Pin Spring last week.  Hopefully I'll get my Trigger Return Spring this week.
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 6:19:38 PM EDT
[#5]
You try to call HK in Alabama yet? Dont get confused with the old HK Customer Service. This new place will take care of you and I have heard of them doing things like sending customers parts free of charge. Try it and let us know.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 2:08:07 PM EDT
[#6]
I called Numrich today and they had both springs in stock....hmmm
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 3:18:23 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
I called Numrich today and they had both springs in stock....hmmm


Well I contacted customer service about mine.  They didn't show any record of them.  It was clearly marked on my packing receipt that they shipped 2 Firing Pin Block Springs, but they shipped 0/2 Trigger Rebound Springs.   They only charged me for the FPBSs.  I re-ordered the TRSs today off the website.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 4:48:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Strange. I couldn't even FIND the springs online. Had to call and give part #s
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 6:47:49 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
Strange. I couldn't even FIND the springs online. Had to call and give part #s


Because its not under the P2k.  Its the Full size parts:

Spring Link
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 3:32:32 PM EDT
[#10]
That is correct.  I posted the part numbers and description on HKPRO under handguns, P2K, SK, USP/C LEM trigger job.
Those part numbers are for the USP/C TR and FPB springs.  You will never find them under the P2K.  And when you get them, they will NOT look anything like the springs you remove from the P2K but they are the correct items.  Just put them in and enjoy the lighter trigger pull.
Link Posted: 8/10/2006 6:28:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Big-Bore, does the lighter trigger pull have any downsides?  Such as light primer strikes?  WHich would cause a failure to fire?
Link Posted: 8/10/2006 3:33:02 PM EDT
[#12]
No, not really.  You do not change out the hammer spring so the power of the hammer fall is not affected in the least.  The ONLY problem I have heard about by going to the 5 pound pull is sometimes when you let out on the trigger R-E-A-L-L-Y slowly the trigger does not go all the way forward.  It goes forward enough to reset but may not go all the way.  Big whoop!  So long as it goes forward enough to reset and then some I really couldn't care less if it pops all the way forward.  Let off the trigger quickly and don't nurse it out then the trigger returns fully forward on its own.

The only down side that I consider of realistic concern is that 5 pounds DA is a damned light trigger pull on a defensive weapon.  The SA pull on the USP and USPC usually run abut 4.5-5.5 pounds, and that is SINGLE ACTION.  So now with the spring swap you have a DA pull of only 5 pounds.  And the point of the long DA pull is so that one does not in a moment of stress light one off accidentally.  I can see a person under stress easily putting 5 pounds of pressure on the trigger and letting one go early because they they "took up the slack" so to speak.

By the way, when I first did the P2K, for kicks and giggles I replaced the hammer spring with a Wolff 10 pound spring.  That dropped the trigger pull to 4 pounds (man, that is WAY too light IMO) but the hammer fall then was affected and the hammer seemed to be falling MUCH slower and with a lot less force.  While I did not have any mis-fires in the 50 or so shots I did with the Wolff hammer spring in there and the primers seemed dented just as much as with the factory spring, I did feel the slower hammer fall was a problem waiting to happen.  I went back to the factory hammer spring.  I do NOT advise swapping out the hammer spring on a pistol that will see serious use.
Link Posted: 8/10/2006 5:59:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Thank you so much for you comments.  I've been considering using this as my CCW weapon.  The 5lb trigger pull is light, but just about as light as my SA and Kimber 1911s and they are carried cocked and locked.  
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 4:55:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Well I got my TRB springs today.  Got them installed.  WOW.  The trigger pull is definately LIGHT.

Now all I need to do is get to a range.
Link Posted: 8/15/2006 6:22:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Listen to everything Big Bore says.

I did the trigger job and love it. However, I do have the trigger return issue he mentioned. It does not affect shootability one bit, but it make the gun seem cheap in a way. I got over it real fast when I shot it for the first time.

I agree that the 5lb pull is WAY TOO LIGHT to be carried as a defensive weapon. It's great for the range, but I wouldn't trust myself under stress with that light a trigger.

Enjoy!
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 9:46:12 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
Listen to everything Big Bore says.

I did the trigger job and love it. However, I do have the trigger return issue he mentioned. It does not affect shootability one bit, but it make the gun seem cheap in a way. I got over it real fast when I shot it for the first time.

I agree that the 5lb pull is WAY TOO LIGHT to be carried as a defensive weapon. It's great for the range, but I wouldn't trust myself under stress with that light a trigger.

Enjoy!


Why is a ~5# trigger on an HK too light for defense but a 5# trigger on a Glock okay? Not being an ass here, genuinely curious.

BTW, when I was looking before I was looking under the fullsize parts, I just couldn't find 'em. Oh well. The trigger is awesome now, I love it. I still haven't been able to get to the range but hopefully this weekend. I also have the "problem" of the trigger not returning all the way. A little anoying, but not a real big deal...
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 10:00:13 AM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:
I can see a person under stress easily putting 5 pounds of pressure on the trigger and letting one go early because they they "took up the slack" so to speak.


Isn't an involuntary muscle contraction under stress along the lines of 20 pounds of force?  A stress reaction will make you fire a double action revolver.  Don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire and you're ok.

I think DA is a crock for the purposes of preventing a ND.
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 10:01:50 AM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:
I wouldn't trust myself under stress with that light a trigger.


If we were shooting together and you told me that, I'd pack up and leave.  Because I don't trust you with any gun if you rely on slightly heavier springs to prevent yourself from firing your gun.  Why is your finger on the trigger if you don't want to shoot?
Link Posted: 8/17/2006 6:35:28 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wouldn't trust myself under stress with that light a trigger.


If we were shooting together and you told me that, I'd pack up and leave.  Because I don't trust you with any gun if you rely on slightly heavier springs to prevent yourself from firing your gun.  Why is your finger on the trigger if you don't want to shoot?


This is why the internet sucks. Because people dissect every word with a scalpel.

I should have said that the trigger is light and that under a stressful situation of maybe grabbing for a gun in the dark, fumbling picking it up, or just being unnerved to be in a life or death situation, I think it's a little too light. I don't know about you, but I've never had the pleasure of handling a gun under a combat/fight-flight situation so I'm saying that I'd rather be safe than sorry. Not to mention the DA saying "So you shot this perfectly nice bad guy who broke into your home with a gun that YOU LIGHTENED THE TRIGGER ON to make killing easier?"

I'd probably pack up and leave if we were shooting together too because I can't stand people who nitpick.
Link Posted: 8/18/2006 4:11:36 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wouldn't trust myself under stress with that light a trigger.


If we were shooting together and you told me that, I'd pack up and leave.  Because I don't trust you with any gun if you rely on slightly heavier springs to prevent yourself from firing your gun.  Why is your finger on the trigger if you don't want to shoot?


This is why the internet sucks. Because people dissect every word with a scalpel.

I should have said that the trigger is light and that under a stressful situation of maybe grabbing for a gun in the dark, fumbling picking it up, or just being unnerved to be in a life or death situation, I think it's a little too light. I don't know about you, but I've never had the pleasure of handling a gun under a combat/fight-flight situation so I'm saying that I'd rather be safe than sorry. Not to mention the DA saying "So you shot this perfectly nice bad guy who broke into your home with a gun that YOU LIGHTENED THE TRIGGER ON to make killing easier?"

I'd probably pack up and leave if we were shooting together too because I can't stand people who nitpick.


The point I was trying to make is that DA is no safer than single action.  How to prevent this type of thing is to keep your finger off the trigger and in the case of fumbling in the dark, use a manual safety.  No offense meant.
Link Posted: 8/19/2006 12:39:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Well I went out in the back yard and fired 26 rounds to test out the trigger pull.  I must say, this trigger job made a world of difference.  I realize its only 26rnds, but still was much more satisfied than before.

I was using WWB ammo and was shooting from 10yrds.  I was shooting pretty rapidly, definately not taking my time as you can tell by my flyers.

The Circle is about 4" wide and all 26 rnds accounted for.
Link Posted: 8/19/2006 4:09:09 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm glad you like it.  Remarkable difference isn't it?  And that is some very good shooting also IMO.  I too don't like the light DA pull on a defensive gun, and for that matter, I have never been much of a fan of DAO triggers.  I much prefer SA/DA with the first shot being about 12 pounds followed by SA pulls of about 5.
 I know, as does everyone, that you do not put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.  But this is not a perfect world and when the adrenaline is pumping and you are scared half witless in the middle of the night by something crashing downstairs, and everything seems to be going wrong, people have and always will do stupid things.  And that trigger finger, no matter how hard we train otherwise sometimes finds its way into the trigger guard seemingly on its own.  And that does not only happen to the civi but also to police officers and other people who are supposed to "know better."  If I had a nickel for every time I have heard of or read about police officers and other "professionals" being involved in accidental (or negligent) discharges then I would have me one hell of a load of nickels.

And have you ever noticed that when a police department switches over to a light DAO no manual safety trigger like a Glock from a gun with a heavier trigger and a manual safety, like a S&W or a SIG, that they seem to have a rash of ADs?  When Louisville KY police switched over about 10 years ago they had so many ADs that the news media was blaming Glock for producing a defective weapon (and the Chief of Police was doing NOTHING to discourage that misconception, believe you me!).  Of course when the officers FINALLY learned to keep their damned finger off the trigger until ready to shoot, the ADs mysteriously went away.  I guess the Glocks magically fixed themselves.
Link Posted: 8/19/2006 7:09:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Remarkable doesn't begin to describe it.  Sadly I don't have any pictures of my outting with the stock trigger pull.  Lets just say you'd probably be safe if you stood right in front of me at the same distance.  

With that said, the trigger pull gives me pause as I consider using this as my CCW gun over my 1911.  

I'm torn at the moment.
Currently carrying a SA Loaded 1911 5" model.  Great gun and great shooter.
I purchased a Kimber PLE 4" model recently with the intention of carrying it.  Max Con V purchased for carry use.
Now this is my most recent acquisition.  I'm REALLY liking it a lot.  Max Con V ordered as well.  

Both the SA & Kimber 1911 have 5 ~ 5.5lb trigger pulls.  Basically I'd be going from a Single Action gun(s) to a DAO (LEM).
I guess I'm just rambling at this point.  
Link Posted: 8/19/2006 9:09:01 PM EDT
[#24]
USPc, cocked and locked.  That's the way to roll with an HK.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 7:17:56 AM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:
USPc, cocked and locked.  That's the way to roll with an HK.


I'm not in the market for another handgun..........yet.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 12:42:17 PM EDT
[#26]
What is the pull weight of a stock USPc V1? It is a .40 if that makes any difference.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:02:48 PM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:
What is the pull weight of a stock USPc V1? It is a .40 if that makes any difference.


SA is what...about 4.5 lbs I think.  DA is a horrendous 12lbs or so.

ETA: I don't mean it's the pull weight that makes the DA horrendous.  It's just a crappy trigger pull.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:26:25 PM EDT
[#28]
I know this post is about DAO pull but, can the SA pull be lightened any on a V1? I knew it was high but dang 12 lbs! Even if it was dropped to 8 or 9 lbs that would be huge. Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:32:40 PM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
I know this post is about DAO pull but, can the SA pull be lightened any on a V1? I knew it was high but dang 12 lbs! Even if it was dropped to 8 or 9 lbs that would be huge. Thanks in advance.


No, the DA pull of a DA/SA gun is about 12.  The SA pull is about 4.5.

And both can be lightened, if you so desire.  I just never use the DA pull because I hate transitioning from one to another.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:53:05 PM EDT
[#30]
So I guess that variant 5 or 7 would be the conversion to be able to get a lighter trigger pull? Would 7 be the best or would it be better to have a "safe" position? We don't have any kids, my wife would be the only other person that would shoot it. Thanks for the help and dealing with my noobe questions. Would it be best to send it back to HK to have it converted or is it a switch that someone could do? I am a auto technician so I know my way around tools.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 2:00:53 PM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
So I guess that variant 5 or 7 would be the conversion to be able to get a lighter trigger pull? Would 7 be the best or would it be better to have a "safe" position? We don't have any kids, my wife would be the only other person that would shoot it. Thanks for the help and dealing with my noobe questions. Would it be best to send it back to HK to have it converted or is it a switch that someone could do? I am a auto technician so I know my way around tools.


No, 5/6 are DAO variants.  Those ones will have a heavy pull for every shot.  The rest of them are DA/SA, which means you can shoot them DA at 12 lbs or shoot them SA at 4.5 lbs.  You can choose to never shoot them DA if you desire; that's what I do.  Once fired, the hammer will be cocked and the trigger pull will be SA unless you decock it.

I suggest you try the V1 to start with.  See how you like both the DA and SA triggers on it.  Then go from there.  I use a v9, which is identical to a v1 except it has a very minor (and easy) modification which disables the decocker.  I don't need to decock because I shoot cocked and locked -- no DA for me.

DAO == Double Action Only
DA == Double Action
SA == Single Action
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 4:33:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Do NOT confuse the DAO V5,6,7,8 (not available in the U.S.) with the LEM DAO triggers.
As said, the V5,6,7,8 are DAO where every shot will be about 12 pounds.  These are the conventional USP triggers with the SA function removed.  
The LEM trigger is a completely different trigger system not a part of the normal 10 variants of the USP/C line up.
In the LEM triggers there are the V1, 5 pounds+-; V2, 8 pounds+-; V4, 7 pounds+-; V5, 10 pounds+-, and then there is the P2K/SK V3 which is like the USP/C V3,4, SA/DA, decock only, no safe, which will be DA about 12 pounds and SA about 5 pounds.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 10:30:22 PM EDT
[#33]
height=8
Quoted:
No, not really.  You do not change out the hammer spring so the power of the hammer fall is not affected in the least.  The ONLY problem I have heard about by going to the 5 pound pull is sometimes when you let out on the trigger R-E-A-L-L-Y slowly the trigger does not go all the way forward.  It goes forward enough to reset but may not go all the way.  Big whoop!  So long as it goes forward enough to reset and then some I really couldn't care less if it pops all the way forward.  Let off the trigger quickly and don't nurse it out then the trigger returns fully forward on its own.

The only down side that I consider of realistic concern is that 5 pounds DA is a damned light trigger pull on a defensive weapon.  The SA pull on the USP and USPC usually run abut 4.5-5.5 pounds, and that is SINGLE ACTION.  So now with the spring swap you have a DA pull of only 5 pounds.  And the point of the long DA pull is so that one does not in a moment of stress light one off accidentally.  I can see a person under stress easily putting 5 pounds of pressure on the trigger and letting one go early because they they "took up the slack" so to speak.

By the way, when I first did the P2K, for kicks and giggles I replaced the hammer spring with a Wolff 10 pound spring.  That dropped the trigger pull to 4 pounds (man, that is WAY too light IMO) but the hammer fall then was affected and the hammer seemed to be falling MUCH slower and with a lot less force.  While I did not have any mis-fires in the 50 or so shots I did with the Wolff hammer spring in there and the primers seemed dented just as much as with the factory spring, I did feel the slower hammer fall was a problem waiting to happen.  I went back to the factory hammer spring.  I do NOT advise swapping out the hammer spring on a pistol that will see serious use.




Big-Bore,  what if I did not replace the TR spring (only the FPB).  Does that quarantee that I will not have the reset issue?  Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 5:13:06 AM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, not really.  You do not change out the hammer spring so the power of the hammer fall is not affected in the least.  The ONLY problem I have heard about by going to the 5 pound pull is sometimes when you let out on the trigger R-E-A-L-L-Y slowly the trigger does not go all the way forward.  It goes forward enough to reset but may not go all the way.  Big whoop!  So long as it goes forward enough to reset and then some I really couldn't care less if it pops all the way forward.  Let off the trigger quickly and don't nurse it out then the trigger returns fully forward on its own.

The only down side that I consider of realistic concern is that 5 pounds DA is a damned light trigger pull on a defensive weapon.  The SA pull on the USP and USPC usually run abut 4.5-5.5 pounds, and that is SINGLE ACTION.  So now with the spring swap you have a DA pull of only 5 pounds.  And the point of the long DA pull is so that one does not in a moment of stress light one off accidentally.  I can see a person under stress easily putting 5 pounds of pressure on the trigger and letting one go early because they they "took up the slack" so to speak.

By the way, when I first did the P2K, for kicks and giggles I replaced the hammer spring with a Wolff 10 pound spring.  That dropped the trigger pull to 4 pounds (man, that is WAY too light IMO) but the hammer fall then was affected and the hammer seemed to be falling MUCH slower and with a lot less force.  While I did not have any mis-fires in the 50 or so shots I did with the Wolff hammer spring in there and the primers seemed dented just as much as with the factory spring, I did feel the slower hammer fall was a problem waiting to happen.  I went back to the factory hammer spring.  I do NOT advise swapping out the hammer spring on a pistol that will see serious use.




Big-Bore,  what if I did not replace the TR spring (only the FPB).  Does that quarantee that I will not have the reset issue?  Thanks.


I originally started out with only installing the FPB spring since they shipped my springs separately.  The trigger pull was a little bit lighter (still better than stock).  There were no issues with trigger reset since you are replacing the FSB spring, not the Trigger Rebound Spring.  Which is where the "potential" issue could happen.  I haven't had any issues with reset with both springs installed.
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 12:39:26 PM EDT
[#35]
So the LEM trigger is not the DOA trigger? The DOA trigger has the same pull weight as the SA/DOA pull. The LEM trigger pull is lower than the others and is adjustable with replacement springs. Is that correct? I thought the LEM trigger was the DOA.
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 12:44:53 PM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:
So the LEM trigger is not the DOA trigger? The DOA trigger has the same pull weight as the SA/DOA pull. The LEM trigger pull is lower than the others and is adjustable with replacement springs. Is that correct? I thought the LEM trigger was the DOA.


Correct.  The LEM is a special, newer DA trigger.  The DAO variants are like the DA/SA, only you don't get the SA pull.  The gun is not recocked when it fires.  You're always at 12 lbs.

The LEM is different.  It precocks a striker but not the hammer.  If you fire it and the slide doesn't cycle, you have a full DA 12 lbs.  That normally won't happen though; typically you're going to have a lighter pull, depending on which variant you have.

I always recommend people try the LEM before they buy.  It seems tbe a polarizing trigger -- you either love it or hate it.  I don't care for it at all.
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 7:22:36 PM EDT
[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So the LEM trigger is not the DOA trigger? The DOA trigger has the same pull weight as the SA/DOA pull. The LEM trigger pull is lower than the others and is adjustable with replacement springs. Is that correct? I thought the LEM trigger was the DOA.


Correct.  The LEM is a special, newer DA trigger.  The DAO variants are like the DA/SA, only you don't get the SA pull.  The gun is not recocked when it fires.  You're always at 12 lbs.

The LEM is different.  It precocks a striker but not the hammer.  If you fire it and the slide doesn't cycle, you have a full DA 12 lbs.  That normally won't happen though; typically you're going to have a lighter pull, depending on which variant you have.

I always recommend people try the LEM before they buy.  It seems tbe a polarizing trigger -- you either love it or hate it.  I don't care for it at all.

As I stated earlier, I love the trigger pull now that I did the trigger job.  I though it was "ok" prior.  As you state, you probably want to try it out first before buying.
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