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Posted: 7/19/2011 6:19:56 PM EDT
The M&P has the potential to have the best trigger out of the bunch. I started with an SR9, heavy trigger, but it wasn't mushy and it had a short reset. Then I had an XD(m), Long trigger, Long reset, but super smooth and was probably the lightest stock.
Now I have a G34. Stock the trigger is complete garbage, mushy, lots of over travel and the worst for me is that there isn't a distinct break... There's just pre-travel, creep, a little more creep then click... No real indication that the striker is going to drop.

My M&P is basically stock. I did the burwell job + tweaked the trigger bar. It's smooth, light (sub 3 lbs), short reset, but best of all, I know exactly when it's going to click. I know it's classified as a DAO like the Glock... But that doesn't make sense to me. When you pull the trigger on an M&P you're not cocking the striker, you're just dropping the sear... Similar to the XD... So I would think it would be SAO.

The G34 is my new comp gun and I'm still trying to get the trigger to be decent. In a perfect world I would have a G34 with a modified M&P trigger.

Link Posted: 7/19/2011 7:27:06 PM EDT




Originally Posted By C-rad:



I know it's classified as a DAO like the Glock... But that doesn't make sense to me. When you pull the trigger on an M&P you're not cocking the striker, you're just dropping the sear... Similar to the XD... So I would think it would be SAO.







You are correct. Technically speaking, Glocks are SAO.





Maybe we should call Glock actions SAS(Single Action Striker).

Link Posted: 7/19/2011 8:39:54 PM EDT
You missed my point... Glocks are DAO cause 2 things happen when you pull the trigger, you cock the striker, then release it. This is not how M&Ps work.
Link Posted: 7/19/2011 8:59:00 PM EDT




Originally Posted By C-rad:

You missed my point... Glocks are DAO cause 2 things happen when you pull the trigger, you cock the striker, then release it. This is not how M&Ps work.


How do you cock the striker on a Glock? Can it be done with the trigger? No.



The terms "double action" and "single action" wre invented when guns had hammers. Since striker-fired guns do not have a traditional hammer, maybe, as suggested in my post above, we should invent new terms like SAS(single action striker) for Glock types and DA/SAS(double action/single action striker) for Walther AS types.

Link Posted: 7/19/2011 9:20:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By echo_5:

Originally Posted By C-rad:
You missed my point... Glocks are DAO cause 2 things happen when you pull the trigger, you cock the striker, then release it. This is not how M&Ps work.

How do you cock the striker on a Glock? Can it be done with the trigger? No.

The terms "double action" and "single action" wre invented when guns had hammers. Since striker-fired guns do not have a traditional hammer, maybe, as suggested in my post above, we should invent new terms like SAS(single action striker) for Glock types and DA/SAS(double action/single action striker) for Walther AS types.


You're complicating it... My whole point is M&P trigger > Glock Trigger. 1 thing happens when you pull the trigger on an M&P, 2 things happen when you pull the trigger on a Glock.
Link Posted: 7/20/2011 6:40:56 AM EDT
I have to disagree!  My first time shooting a Glock was when my friend bought a 26 last year and I shot it better than any of my own pistols.  The trigger was smooth and consistent all the way through the breaking point and reset easily.

I bought an M&P this year and the first few mags every other time I pulled the trigger it wouldn't go off because I hadn't let it far enough out to reset.  The first click you would expect to be the reset isn't, you have to keep letting it outt almost all the way.  Plus it has a crazy amount of slack you have to pull before it even gets close to firing.

I'm probably going to order the Apex kit soon and see what that does for it.
Link Posted: 7/20/2011 10:31:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2011 10:33:42 AM EDT by C-rad]
Originally Posted By castiel:
I have to disagree!  My first time shooting a Glock was when my friend bought a 26 last year and I shot it better than any of my own pistols.  The trigger was smooth and consistent all the way through the breaking point and reset easily.

I bought an M&P this year and the first few mags every other time I pulled the trigger it wouldn't go off because I hadn't let it far enough out to reset.  The first click you would expect to be the reset isn't, you have to keep letting it outt almost all the way.  Plus it has a crazy amount of slack you have to pull before it even gets close to firing.

I'm probably going to order the Apex kit soon and see what that does for it.


Hence the reason I said a modded trigger.

The best part about the M&P trigger is that you can a sweet sub 3# trigger for free.
Link Posted: 7/20/2011 11:21:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2011 11:21:34 AM EDT by ElrodCod]
Originally Posted By echo_5:

Originally Posted By C-rad:
You missed my point... Glocks are DAO cause 2 things happen when you pull the trigger, you cock the striker, then release it. This is not how M&Ps work.

How do you cock the striker on a Glock? Can it be done with the trigger? No.

The terms "double action" and "single action" wre invented when guns had hammers. Since striker-fired guns do not have a traditional hammer, maybe, as suggested in my post above, we should invent new terms like SAS(single action striker) for Glock types and DA/SAS(double action/single action striker) for Walther AS types.


Glocks are  partially cocked by the slide, the trigger completes the cocking cycle and fires the gun....DAO.

Link Posted: 7/20/2011 1:48:25 PM EDT




Originally Posted By ElrodCod:



Originally Posted By echo_5:





Originally Posted By C-rad:

You missed my point... Glocks are DAO cause 2 things happen when you pull the trigger, you cock the striker, then release it. This is not how M&Ps work.


How do you cock the striker on a Glock? Can it be done with the trigger? No.



The terms "double action" and "single action" wre invented when guns had hammers. Since striker-fired guns do not have a traditional hammer, maybe, as suggested in my post above, we should invent new terms like SAS(single action striker) for Glock types and DA/SAS(double action/single action striker) for Walther AS types.





Glocks are partially cocked by the slide, the trigger completes the cocking cycle and fires the gun....DAO.







Pull the trigger again. It won't fire, will it?



Unless a striker-fired gun has restrike, it's SAO.
Link Posted: 7/20/2011 2:06:28 PM EDT
I would agree that I like the XDm trigger better than the G19 and G17 triggers that I've tried. Although I have not tried an M&P.
Link Posted: 7/20/2011 4:16:20 PM EDT
The M&P trigger sucks!  I love the gun and that's why I've sent it away to get trigger work, but it is the ONLY gun I own that doesn't have a good reset.  I much prefer glock triggers... That is, until I get my gun back and I'll have to see how the improved M&P trigger feels.
Link Posted: 7/20/2011 5:24:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CaptShiess:
The M&P trigger sucks!  I love the gun and that's why I've sent it away to get trigger work, but it is the ONLY gun I own that doesn't have a good reset.  I much prefer glock triggers... That is, until I get my gun back and I'll have to see how the improved M&P trigger feels.


Stock, the M&P trigger is horrible... which is why I said it has the potential to be the best. I worked mine in about an hour and beats any stock trigger on any poly easy.
Link Posted: 7/27/2011 2:18:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By C-rad:
Originally Posted By CaptShiess:
The M&P trigger sucks!  I love the gun and that's why I've sent it away to get trigger work, but it is the ONLY gun I own that doesn't have a good reset.  I much prefer glock triggers... That is, until I get my gun back and I'll have to see how the improved M&P trigger feels.


Stock, the M&P trigger is horrible... which is why I said it has the potential to be the best. I worked mine in about an hour and beats any stock trigger on any poly easy.


I wouldn't say the trigger is horrible as I have felt much worse.  Given a little time to break-in the smooth out nicely.  Of course, being a 1911 shooter I would like them to be short and crisp, but I can still get over it.  A little polishing here and there and a light teflon based grease really helped mine.
Link Posted: 7/27/2011 3:29:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sigman68:
Originally Posted By C-rad:
Originally Posted By CaptShiess:
The M&P trigger sucks!  I love the gun and that's why I've sent it away to get trigger work, but it is the ONLY gun I own that doesn't have a good reset.  I much prefer glock triggers... That is, until I get my gun back and I'll have to see how the improved M&P trigger feels.


Stock, the M&P trigger is horrible... which is why I said it has the potential to be the best. I worked mine in about an hour and beats any stock trigger on any poly easy.


I wouldn't say the trigger is horrible as I have felt much worse.  Given a little time to break-in the smooth out nicely.  Of course, being a 1911 shooter I would like them to be short and crisp, but I can still get over it.  A little polishing here and there and a light teflon based grease really helped mine.


Out of the top brands, which were worse stock? My SR9 had a heavy trigger but it still wasn't as bad as my M&P.
Link Posted: 7/27/2011 6:40:42 PM EDT
You must have gotten a bad one because the two SR9's I felt were what I would consider horrible.

Kel-Tec is probably the worst I have felt.
Link Posted: 7/27/2011 7:55:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sigman68:
You must have gotten a bad one because the two SR9's I felt were what I would consider horrible.

Kel-Tec is probably the worst I have felt.


Can you explain why? The SR9 has a crisp trigger with a very short reset... It's just damn heavy. A stock M&P on the other hand has a long trigger that can feel like a 2 stage depending on how unlucky you are.
Link Posted: 7/27/2011 8:45:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By C-rad:
Originally Posted By sigman68:
You must have gotten a bad one because the two SR9's I felt were what I would consider horrible.

Kel-Tec is probably the worst I have felt.


Can you explain why? The SR9 has a crisp trigger with a very short reset... It's just damn heavy. A stock M&P on the other hand has a long trigger that can feel like a 2 stage depending on how unlucky you are.


I guess the only way I can explain it is the trigger pull on a Ruger is heavy but I did not find it to be crisp at all.  The M&P is like pushing a knife through cold butter, firm and gradual, while the SR9 felt like a snapping a pencil in half.  It tightened up, something felt like it started to flex as a large amount of pressure was put on it, and then "snap."

For target shooting, all of them suck compared to a good single action trigger but for faster combat shooting, only the weight of pull affects me.  Reset doesn't bother me either way.
Link Posted: 7/27/2011 9:17:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sigman68:
Originally Posted By C-rad:
Originally Posted By sigman68:
You must have gotten a bad one because the two SR9's I felt were what I would consider horrible.

Kel-Tec is probably the worst I have felt.


Can you explain why? The SR9 has a crisp trigger with a very short reset... It's just damn heavy. A stock M&P on the other hand has a long trigger that can feel like a 2 stage depending on how unlucky you are.


I guess the only way I can explain it is the trigger pull on a Ruger is heavy but I did not find it to be crisp at all.  The M&P is like pushing a knife through cold butter, firm and gradual, while the SR9 felt like a snapping a pencil in half.  It tightened up, something felt like it started to flex as a large amount of pressure was put on it, and then "snap."

For target shooting, all of them suck compared to a good single action trigger but for faster combat shooting, only the weight of pull affects me.  Reset doesn't bother me either way.


Those are actually really descriptions of both.
Link Posted: 7/27/2011 9:22:08 PM EDT
I like my PX4....
Link Posted: 7/28/2011 8:47:44 PM EDT
*Update*  I just got mine back from Bill Springfield.  He added the Apex sear and safety block and worked the trigger.  It is MUCH nicer and a marked improvement over stock.  The reset is very short now, but still has too much take up for me, but it is now very nice.  I think the trigger work alone took my group from about 8" to around 2 or 3".  Maybe I should just have some better trigger control, but I shoot it much better after the trigger work.
Link Posted: 7/29/2011 6:31:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By C-rad:
The M&P has the potential to have the best trigger out of the bunch. I started with an SR9, heavy trigger, but it wasn't mushy and it had a short reset. Then I had an XD(m), Long trigger, Long reset, but super smooth and was probably the lightest stock.
Now I have a G34. Stock the trigger is complete garbage, mushy, lots of over travel and the worst for me is that there isn't a distinct break... There's just pre-travel, creep, a little more creep then click... No real indication that the striker is going to drop.

My M&P is basically stock. I did the burwell job + tweaked the trigger bar. It's smooth, light (sub 3 lbs), short reset, but best of all, I know exactly when it's going to click. I know it's classified as a DAO like the Glock... But that doesn't make sense to me. When you pull the trigger on an M&P you're not cocking the striker, you're just dropping the sear... Similar to the XD... So I would think it would be SAO.

The G34 is my new comp gun and I'm still trying to get the trigger to be decent. In a perfect world I would have a G34 with a modified M&P trigger.



So, you're asking about the best "potential" trigger.  You're comparing a modded M&P trigger to a stock Glock trigger.  Not a fair comparison.  

I have an M&P40 w/ Apex sear and have done the Burwell recommended polishing on the internals...very nice trigger by the way.  Also have multiple Glocks.  I've polished the internals on all of them and, I've tried the lighter connectors and NY Spring combo and have returned them all to stock.  Except for a G19 that has a 1lb lighter trigger spring.  I've not tried the Fulcrum trigger, which looks like the ultimate Glock trigger.  Polishing does amazing things to both the M&P and Glock.  I've not tried the RAM assembly from Apex for the M&P, but I do think Glock has the best reset.  I've owned a couple of XD's and sold them both.  I've never handled an XD w/ trigger mods, but I could see some great improvements on this platform as well.

Ultimately, yes, I do think the M&P would probably yield the nicest trigger of the bunch.  However, some of the other platforms are stil very very good.
Link Posted: 7/29/2011 4:06:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rauchman:
Originally Posted By C-rad:
The M&P has the potential to have the best trigger out of the bunch. I started with an SR9, heavy trigger, but it wasn't mushy and it had a short reset. Then I had an XD(m), Long trigger, Long reset, but super smooth and was probably the lightest stock.
Now I have a G34. Stock the trigger is complete garbage, mushy, lots of over travel and the worst for me is that there isn't a distinct break... There's just pre-travel, creep, a little more creep then click... No real indication that the striker is going to drop.

My M&P is basically stock. I did the burwell job + tweaked the trigger bar. It's smooth, light (sub 3 lbs), short reset, but best of all, I know exactly when it's going to click. I know it's classified as a DAO like the Glock... But that doesn't make sense to me. When you pull the trigger on an M&P you're not cocking the striker, you're just dropping the sear... Similar to the XD... So I would think it would be SAO.

The G34 is my new comp gun and I'm still trying to get the trigger to be decent. In a perfect world I would have a G34 with a modified M&P trigger.



So, you're asking about the best "potential" trigger.  You're comparing a modded M&P trigger to a stock Glock trigger.  Not a fair comparison.  

I have an M&P40 w/ Apex sear and have done the Burwell recommended polishing on the internals...very nice trigger by the way.  Also have multiple Glocks.  I've polished the internals on all of them and, I've tried the lighter connectors and NY Spring combo and have returned them all to stock.  Except for a G19 that has a 1lb lighter trigger spring.  I've not tried the Fulcrum trigger, which looks like the ultimate Glock trigger.  Polishing does amazing things to both the M&P and Glock.  I've not tried the RAM assembly from Apex for the M&P, but I do think Glock has the best reset.  I've owned a couple of XD's and sold them both.  I've never handled an XD w/ trigger mods, but I could see some great improvements on this platform as well.

Ultimately, yes, I do think the M&P would probably yield the nicest trigger of the bunch.  However, some of the other platforms are stil very very good.


More making a statement than anything. and no, both my M&P and my G34 are modified. The M&P like I said is on all stock internals but it has a sub 3lb pull. The Glock has the V3 connector + GW spring kit. My Glock trigger is only a tiny bit heavier than my M&P, but it can never be as good as the M&P just by design.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 10:03:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2011 10:09:08 AM EDT by plinkereye]
Don't own a m&p or glock, but am familiar with the sigma. I assume they both have the same system like the sigma on the upper receiver. I am cocking the firing pin a little when shooting. Its considered DAO b/c the firing pin is moved backwards 1/16" before it strikes the primer during a single pull. DAO means firing pin/hammer must go backwards before going forward during a single pull. If the firing pin/hammer doesn't move to the rear at all during the pull, then it would be SA. I think xds are single actions b/c the firing doesn't move back once pulling the trigger.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 10:24:42 AM EDT



Originally Posted By echo_5:





Originally Posted By ElrodCod:


Originally Posted By echo_5:




Originally Posted By C-rad:

You missed my point... Glocks are DAO cause 2 things happen when you pull the trigger, you cock the striker, then release it. This is not how M&Ps work.


How do you cock the striker on a Glock? Can it be done with the trigger? No.



The terms "double action" and "single action" wre invented when guns had hammers. Since striker-fired guns do not have a traditional hammer, maybe, as suggested in my post above, we should invent new terms like SAS(single action striker) for Glock types and DA/SAS(double action/single action striker) for Walther AS types.





Glocks are partially cocked by the slide, the trigger completes the cocking cycle and fires the gun....DAO.







Pull the trigger again. It won't fire, will it?



Unless a striker-fired gun has restrike, it's SAO.


This is why it's their Safe Action name.


It doesn't really fit either.








 
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 10:25:06 AM EDT





Originally Posted By echo_5:
Originally Posted By ElrodCod:




Originally Posted By echo_5:
Originally Posted By C-rad:


You missed my point... Glocks are DAO cause 2 things happen when you pull the trigger, you cock the striker, then release it. This is not how M&Ps work.



How do you cock the striker on a Glock? Can it be done with the trigger? No.





The terms "double action" and "single action" wre invented when guns had hammers. Since striker-fired guns do not have a traditional hammer, maybe, as suggested in my post above, we should invent new terms like SAS(single action striker) for Glock types and DA/SAS(double action/single action striker) for Walther AS types.








Glocks are partially cocked by the slide, the trigger completes the cocking cycle and fires the gun....DAO.











Pull the trigger again. It won't fire, will it?





Unless a striker-fired gun has restrike, it's SAO.



This is why it's their Safe Action name.




It doesn't really fit either by technical terms, but in shooting mechanics and operations, just think of it as SAO.












 
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 12:33:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LaRue556:

Originally Posted By echo_5:

Originally Posted By ElrodCod:
Originally Posted By echo_5:

Originally Posted By C-rad:
You missed my point... Glocks are DAO cause 2 things happen when you pull the trigger, you cock the striker, then release it. This is not how M&Ps work.

How do you cock the striker on a Glock? Can it be done with the trigger? No.

The terms "double action" and "single action" wre invented when guns had hammers. Since striker-fired guns do not have a traditional hammer, maybe, as suggested in my post above, we should invent new terms like SAS(single action striker) for Glock types and DA/SAS(double action/single action striker) for Walther AS types.


Glocks are partially cocked by the slide, the trigger completes the cocking cycle and fires the gun....DAO.



Pull the trigger again. It won't fire, will it?

Unless a striker-fired gun has restrike, it's SAO.

This is why it's their Safe Action name.

It doesn't really fit either by technical terms, but in shooting mechanics and operations, just think of it as SAO.


 


A Glock may not be DA like a revolver is DA, but you can't call it SA because that would imply that it functions like an M&P or XD and it flat out doesn't. For the purpose of this thread, the Glock trigger IMO is not as good as the M&P trigger because one is SAO and the other is DAO.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 12:36:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By plinkereye:
Don't own a m&p or glock, but am familiar with the sigma. I assume they both have the same system like the sigma on the upper receiver. I am cocking the firing pin a little when shooting. Its considered DAO b/c the firing pin is moved backwards 1/16" before it strikes the primer during a single pull. DAO means firing pin/hammer must go backwards before going forward during a single pull. If the firing pin/hammer doesn't move to the rear at all during the pull, then it would be SA. I think xds are single actions b/c the firing doesn't move back once pulling the trigger.


You're correct about XD's, this is also how M&P's work. The trigger bar in an M&P never contacts the striker like it does in a Glock. In an M&P the trigger bar contacts the sear and the sear drops out of the way releasing the striker.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 1:28:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By echo_5:
Pull the trigger again. It won't fire, will it?

Unless a striker-fired gun has restrike, it's SAO.


Restriking (or lack thereof) doesn't make something SAO or DAO... there are plenty of DAO pistols that do not have second strike (S&W 3rd Generations, Ruger LCP, Beretta PX4 C models, etc).

Rearward movement of a hammer due to the trigger makes it DAO (preset DAO usually doesn’t have second strike, but the hammer isn’t resting fully back, locked by a sear). Personally, I don't think striker-fired pistols should be listed as anything other than "striker-fired," due to the lack of a hammer... but if the striker was defined as a hammer, Glock would technically be DAO.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 1:33:40 PM EDT
Much LOL in this thread. OP means to say out of the DAO plastic pistols...



I have a Poly framed HK and a Poly framed Sig. Glock,M&P,XD etc don't even come close. I don't see how people could even own one but I guess its all personal preference. Like Driving a manual or a Auto. Some people just prefer the simplicty of driving an auto but I would rather have control over my firearm's functioning.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 1:50:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By slappomatt:
Much LOL in this thread. OP means to say out of the DAO plastic pistols...

I have a Poly framed HK and a Poly framed Sig. Glock,M&P,XD etc don't even come close. I don't see how people could even own one but I guess its all personal preference. Like Driving a manual or a Auto. Some people just prefer the simplicty of driving an auto but I would rather have control over my firearm's functioning.


I did mean Glock type guns.. I wouldn't even mentions sigs and HK's because IMO they're inferior to low bore-axis striker fired guns... First off, you've got to worry about your first shot being about twice as heavy as the following shots, then you have to worry about a stupid long reset. There are other things I could mention like the big fire controls preventing you from getting a good thumbs forward grip.

People that "think" HK's and Sigs are better than Glocks and M&P's aren't serious shooters.

The only thing I could give you is quality... HK's are probably higher quality than most striker fired guns. But form and function, no contest.

I said it before in another thread... There is a good reason serious competition shooters don't use DA/SA guns.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 5:48:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By slappomatt:
Much LOL in this thread. OP means to say out of the DAO plastic pistols...

I have a Poly framed HK and a Poly framed Sig. Glock,M&P,XD etc don't even come close. I don't see how people could even own one but I guess its all personal preference. Like Driving a manual or a Auto. Some people just prefer the simplicty of driving an auto but I would rather have control over my firearm's functioning.


Much LOL in this post.
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