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Posted: 4/30/2011 1:54:53 AM EDT
I just bought my first real 1911. A Sig Tac-Ops and I LOVE it.
(first "1911" was a para ordnance P-16)

Here's where the noob question comes.

What do the $3-5000 high end 1911's do that this one doesn't?
What justifies that price?
This is a range only gun I carry a Glock for my CCW but may use the sig as a nightstand gun.
It shoots better than I can is smooth as silk and the trigger feels amazing
No slack, no creep, breaks just right.

So again what am I missing with the high end guns? I've never shot a Yost or Vickers 1911
So this is a serious question.

Flame suit on. Please be somewhat gentle.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:24:43 AM EDT
short answer: better parts, better fitting
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:37:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 5:38:01 AM EDT by RDTCU]

Originally Posted By goldeyeslayer:
short answer: better parts, better fitting

I know I'll get flamed for this, but I've seen RIA's keep running when "nicer" 1911's were choking on crud and grit. I know, I know, isolated incident...

Sure, with proper maintenance and regular cleaning, a $3000 gun will run like a sewing machine, but the sloppy, loose guns will run rain or shine or mud or sand, they'll just be sloppy and loose and not as pretty...
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:46:57 AM EDT
To help answer your question, which is a good one, take a look at this.




http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=313099
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:54:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RDTCU:

Originally Posted By goldeyeslayer:
short answer: better parts, better fitting

I know I'll get flamed for this, but I've seen RIA's keep running when "nicer" 1911's were choking on crud and grit. I know, I know, isolated incident...

Sure, with proper maintenance and regular cleaning, a $3000 gun will run like a sewing machine, but the sloppy, loose guns will run rain or shine or mud or sand, they'll just be sloppy and loose and not as pretty...



For sure, seen that also.....hence that "fitting" thing. They are tighter, (generally) shoot better and last longer...but usually have a bit of a break in period. IIRC, Baer says his won't be 100% for a few hundred rounds. Forgive me if it wasn't him....one of the big names.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 8:31:43 AM EDT
Too sloppy and loose...ain't good either...can wear the barrel and slide lugs...cause feed issues..disconnect troubles...better to be on the tight side and wear in than on the loose side and wearout.

A friend built himself a 'shooter' from parts. His slide to frame fit was rather sloppy...the trigger disconnect would allow the hammer to drop when it wasn't in battery....some parts swapping latter it still had issues.

I helped him 'peen' the frame rails(according to some destructions in a gunsmithing book I own). This fixed the disconnect issue..and some reliability issues it was having feeding..also helped with the lockup of the barrel and slide.

There is a bunch of parameters to a good reliable 1911....I really don't think loose and floppy is one of them...

I believe the biggest benifit to higher end 1911 pistols is 'pride of ownership'...like Perazzi shotguns..custom rifles...Maserati cars...etc.

Like the cheaper budget 1911 pistols 'Rock Island Armory' 1911 pistols seem to enjoy a very decent reputation..as did the Chinese Norincos. So cheap ain't neccesarily 'bad'...The you read about owner's gripes about mid priced/higher end pistols and see that just because it cost more...and ain't neccesarily trouble-free.

Luck must play a part in the deal too...The first four 1911 pistols I owned all had issues..three of these were new guns...one new gun had a very soft frame..two had slide-stop issues...the used one was a good brand(Randall)..and it was junk(or I couldn't figure out it's issues)..One of my first 4 1911's I kept..a Springfield Milspec that needed the slide-stop properly fitted....The first 1911 I ever got that really worked right was a Sistema Colt..and it was made a couple years or so before I was born
Thw remington I bought a last Monday seems to be a keeper too...it works and it's brandnew...a first for me!!!
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 8:45:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 9:05:49 AM EDT
I actually like the Remington 1911R1 slide markings....cast frames and mim parts are now a fact of life..Ruger's precision cast about everything for decades..firingpin safety...well..I wasn't too keen on it..but it doesn't seem to effect the trigger much at all..and I think the series 80 style FPS might be a better system than the Schwartz style some use(that Colt dumped after developing).
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 9:28:09 AM EDT
High end 1911s usually have better no non-sense warrantees, have fancy finishes on them, use forged frames and slides, use tool steel parts, and put a crazy amount of man-hours into fitting the parts (and the people doing it are highly trained and require a higher salary than normal manual labor at lesser shops). The more expensive guns will have match barrels and bushings, they'll have checkered front straps, they'll generally have more options so you can actually customize the guns to your taste, and often they will offer accuracy guarantees. Also, you won't need to consider replacing a lot of the factory stuff, like springs and grips and sights. Oh, don't forget bragging rights, exclusivity, and generally awesome re-sale value.

Honestly, you can buy a very good 1911 for $1000 and be fine, but if you have to ask the question of "how is my $1000 1911 not as awesome as a $3000 custom?" you probably won't understand.

FYI, the new Mustang GT offers awesome performance for $35k, why do people buy $100k Porsches? Get the question you are asking now? If you've never driven a Porsche, you'll likely never understand.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 10:51:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 11:17:58 AM EDT by Sixpakastan]
FYI, the new Mustang GT offers awesome performance for $35k, why do people buy $100k Porsches? Get the question you are asking now? If you've never driven a Porsche, you'll likely never understand.


Well I've driven a few high performance exotics and I understand what your saying so it sounds to me like little dick big wallet.
Or maybe just my spending habits. I would love to have an acog on my AR but can't justify $1500 when an Eo tech and 3x magnifier fit my needs better, just like I can't justify 5k because I can when 1k does the same job, not that I can afford the high end guns anyway. I owned a couple mustangs growing up raced two of em at the drag strip a lot after some upgrades and my Mustang was a lot less picky cantakerous than most porshes.

I get the higher quality parts the tighter tolerances and all that but no I don't "get it" in relation to say a GAP rifle versus an out of box Remmington 700, Obviously the GAP smokes the out of box rifle and out classes it in every way but you will see tangible diffrences on the far end.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 12:21:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By artsohc:
High end 1911s usually have better no non-sense warrantees, have fancy finishes on them, use forged frames and slides, use tool steel parts, and put a crazy amount of man-hours into fitting the parts (and the people doing it are highly trained and require a higher salary than normal manual labor at lesser shops). The more expensive guns will have match barrels and bushings, they'll have checkered front straps, they'll generally have more options so you can actually customize the guns to your taste, and often they will offer accuracy guarantees. Also, you won't need to consider replacing a lot of the factory stuff, like springs and grips and sights. Oh, don't forget bragging rights, exclusivity, and generally awesome re-sale value.

Honestly, you can buy a very good 1911 for $1000 and be fine, but if you have to ask the question of "how is my $1000 1911 not as awesome as a $3000 custom?" you probably won't understand.

FYI, the new Mustang GT offers awesome performance for $35k, why do people buy $100k Porsches? Get the question you are asking now? If you've never driven a Porsche, you'll likely never understand.


Very well played sir. I agree 100% and like the use of your analogies. I started with a "N" prefix Mil-Spec and was enamored. Then I moved up to "NM" prefixed Loaded models and the finesse is certainly more outstanding than the Mil-Spec. Now I have been eying Les Baer's and see that they are a little bit sweeter even. And on it goes up the line getting more refined. You pay for what you get is so true. The premium firearms exude the man hours and craftmanship you speak of and it becomes apparent. Is it worth it to you is a personal question that only you and your expectations and taste can answer.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 2:57:18 PM EDT
It all depends on what you want to use the gun for. If your shooting bulls-eye all day long, go with the 3-5k gun. If its a CCW or a night-stand gun, do with something below the 3k mark. The high end makers give you a much better fit and finish. Other than that, I have no idea, I only use a SA GI.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 3:23:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By artsohc:
High end 1911s usually have better no non-sense warrantees, have fancy finishes on them, use forged frames and slides, use tool steel parts, and put a crazy amount of man-hours into fitting the parts (and the people doing it are highly trained and require a higher salary than normal manual labor at lesser shops). The more expensive guns will have match barrels and bushings, they'll have checkered front straps, they'll generally have more options so you can actually customize the guns to your taste, and often they will offer accuracy guarantees. Also, you won't need to consider replacing a lot of the factory stuff, like springs and grips and sights. Oh, don't forget bragging rights, exclusivity, and generally awesome re-sale value.

Honestly, you can buy a very good 1911 for $1000 and be fine, but if you have to ask the question of "how is my $1000 1911 not as awesome as a $3000 custom?" you probably won't understand.

FYI, the new Mustang GT offers awesome performance for $35k, why do people buy $100k Porsches? Get the question you are asking now? If you've never driven a Porsche, you'll likely never understand.


I tell people its like takeing a girl on a date in a Honda Accord or a Aston Martin. Both will get you to where you are going,but if you have never drivin the Aston you have no idea what you are missing.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:13:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kaneroy:
Originally Posted By artsohc:
High end 1911s usually have better no non-sense warrantees, have fancy finishes on them, use forged frames and slides, use tool steel parts, and put a crazy amount of man-hours into fitting the parts (and the people doing it are highly trained and require a higher salary than normal manual labor at lesser shops). The more expensive guns will have match barrels and bushings, they'll have checkered front straps, they'll generally have more options so you can actually customize the guns to your taste, and often they will offer accuracy guarantees. Also, you won't need to consider replacing a lot of the factory stuff, like springs and grips and sights. Oh, don't forget bragging rights, exclusivity, and generally awesome re-sale value.

Honestly, you can buy a very good 1911 for $1000 and be fine, but if you have to ask the question of "how is my $1000 1911 not as awesome as a $3000 custom?" you probably won't understand.

FYI, the new Mustang GT offers awesome performance for $35k, why do people buy $100k Porsches? Get the question you are asking now? If you've never driven a Porsche, you'll likely never understand.


I tell people its like takeing a girl on a date in a Honda Accord or a Aston Martin. Both will get you to where you are going,but if you have never drivin the Aston you have no idea what you are missing.


All good points also some people want the best regardless, cars, tools, guns etc.. and don't forget one mans $1500 is like $150 to another.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:59:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kaneroy:
Originally Posted By artsohc:
High end 1911s usually have better no non-sense warrantees, have fancy finishes on them, use forged frames and slides, use tool steel parts, and put a crazy amount of man-hours into fitting the parts (and the people doing it are highly trained and require a higher salary than normal manual labor at lesser shops). The more expensive guns will have match barrels and bushings, they'll have checkered front straps, they'll generally have more options so you can actually customize the guns to your taste, and often they will offer accuracy guarantees. Also, you won't need to consider replacing a lot of the factory stuff, like springs and grips and sights. Oh, don't forget bragging rights, exclusivity, and generally awesome re-sale value.

Honestly, you can buy a very good 1911 for $1000 and be fine, but if you have to ask the question of "how is my $1000 1911 not as awesome as a $3000 custom?" you probably won't understand.

FYI, the new Mustang GT offers awesome performance for $35k, why do people buy $100k Porsches? Get the question you are asking now? If you've never driven a Porsche, you'll likely never understand.


I tell people its like takeing a girl on a date in a Honda Accord or a Aston Martin. Both will get you to where you are going,but if you have never drivin the Aston you have no idea what you are missing.


Are you saying a $3000 dollar 1911 will getcha laid?

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:09:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RDTCU:

Originally Posted By goldeyeslayer:
short answer: better parts, better fitting

I know I'll get flamed for this, but I've seen RIA's keep running when "nicer" 1911's were choking on crud and grit. I know, I know, isolated incident...

Sure, with proper maintenance and regular cleaning, a $3000 gun will run like a sewing machine, but the sloppy, loose guns will run rain or shine or mud or sand, they'll just be sloppy and loose and not as pretty...


Amen brother! +1 to that. I have 2 RIA tacticals and love them both.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:20:15 PM EDT
Clint Smith once wrote something a shooting a 1911 that is in harmony as opposed to one that feels as though it's working against itself. After shooting a well built upper end model this will make sense.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:52:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 7:53:00 PM EDT by artsohc]
Originally Posted By 17Z:
Originally Posted By kaneroy:
Originally Posted By artsohc:
High end 1911s usually have better no non-sense warrantees, have fancy finishes on them, use forged frames and slides, use tool steel parts, and put a crazy amount of man-hours into fitting the parts (and the people doing it are highly trained and require a higher salary than normal manual labor at lesser shops). The more expensive guns will have match barrels and bushings, they'll have checkered front straps, they'll generally have more options so you can actually customize the guns to your taste, and often they will offer accuracy guarantees. Also, you won't need to consider replacing a lot of the factory stuff, like springs and grips and sights. Oh, don't forget bragging rights, exclusivity, and generally awesome re-sale value.

Honestly, you can buy a very good 1911 for $1000 and be fine, but if you have to ask the question of "how is my $1000 1911 not as awesome as a $3000 custom?" you probably won't understand.

FYI, the new Mustang GT offers awesome performance for $35k, why do people buy $100k Porsches? Get the question you are asking now? If you've never driven a Porsche, you'll likely never understand.


I tell people its like takeing a girl on a date in a Honda Accord or a Aston Martin. Both will get you to where you are going,but if you have never drivin the Aston you have no idea what you are missing.


Are you saying a $3000 dollar 1911 will getcha laid?



It's more likely to get you to second base
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:41:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sixpakastan:
Here's where the noob question comes.

What do the $3-5000 high end 1911's do that this one doesn't?


There are two posibilities:
1. The expensive pistol may be more accurate. You need to be a good shot to tell the difference.
2. The expensive pistol empties your wallet. In return, you get to talk about your expensive new pistol.
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