After spending the day shooting with two pro-.45 and one pro-.40 friends of mine, the argument about my love of 9mm came up.

They threw out the only true thing their sidearm has over mine and that's a bit more stopping power, BFD! After looking at some of there shooting, I realized that they NEEDED the stopping power to hopefully win the gunfight.

One guy screwed up and blamed his bad accuracy on his colt! Whoops!!

I'm sorry, but it's all about shot placement. Gimme a 9 with HP's and i'm all set. Not to mention i'll have a few extra rounds for any of the bad guy's friends(accomplices). Oh, that's why the .45 guys have to carry extra magazines. that's gotta be a b@tch in the summer months to conceal those too!

Make new friends.

You don't carry extra mags?





Yes, I'm not anywhere as good a shooter as I want to be, but I'll not make excuses for that, or for the fact I like the .45. What's your reason?

Reminds me of the kid in Pulp Fiction who pulls out the hog leg .357 and blows pie plates all over the wall behind Travolta and Samuel L.

Quoted: You don't carry extra mags? Yes, I'm not anywhere as good a shooter as I want to be, but I'll not make excuses for that, or for the fact I like the .45. What's your reason?

I have an extra mag in my glove box, which probably wouldn't do me any good anyway if i had a "situation". 15 rounds in the gun so i think i'm pretty much covered.

My reasons for preferring 9mm: Magazine capacity, cost, and not really a big deal, but less recoil.

In you .45 guys defense, i will say those 1911's-especially Kimbers-look damn cool. I've been tempted to get one but the price has kept me away.

I worked at a range for about a year and saw many different shooters. Bad shooting is certainly not limited to .45's - I always thought that the .40's had a higher percentage of slop.

They're not mediocre shooters. They're compensating for small penises

Quoted: They're not mediocre shooters. They're compensating for small penises

Hmmm. I always shot .45s because I wanted to advertise....

Get some new friends..... And quit worying... they have drugs that will help with male impotence.

Quoted: Get some new friends..... And quit worying... they have drugs that will help with male impotence.

LOL!! So shooting well with a 9mm is a sign of impotence? Freud was right all along?

This is one of the best threads ever.

Quoted: 15 rounds in the gun so i think i'm pretty much covered.

Take a handgun class sometime and you might change your mind.

Quoted: Quoted: 15 rounds in the gun so i think i'm pretty much covered. Take a handgun class sometime and you might change your mind.

Malfunctions that require clearance NEVER compromise the magazine

Is it the caliber or would they be mediocre shooting ANY caliber?

I did a science project for high school in which the hypothesis was that people will flinch less (shoot more accurately) if they wear both ear plugs and muffs.  To further prove the hypothesis, I used a flight line deck hand helment along with ear plugs and the big goggles.

The gun was my dad's 6" SW Mod 19 using 125 JHPs.  This was back in 1982 when everyone was a wheel gun shooter.

Went to range and offered free shooting to anyone who would fit in the helmet.

My inititial plan was to have the particpants to do as follows:

1. 24 shots for practice with regular shooting glasses and muffs at any distance.
2.  2 stages of 6 shots for a control group at 25 yards with regular shooting glasses and muffs.
3.  2 stages of 6 shots for test at 25 yards with regular shooting glasses, ear plugs and muffs at any distance.
3.  2 stages of 6 shots for test at 25 yards with goggles, helmet and ear plugs.

It turns out that most people, more than 80%, can not even keep a 14" group at 25 yards.  More than 50% could not put all 6 shots on a 18"X18" target.  I figured that I needed at most a 14" initial group size to efficiently test my hypothesis.  It took the whole day at the range (on a saturday) and part of the next day to find 10 qualified people.  I thought the project would take less than 600 rounds.  It ended up being over 1100 rounds.

I tracked some personal stats to check for other causal factors.  The most interesting stats on those that qualified were as follows:
a.) Half were military or ex-military, none were law enforcement or ex-law enforcement
b.) Half were over 43 years of age (oldest 67), the other half younger (youngest 21)
c.) All started shooting with their dad before the age of 12.

I did prove my hypothesis.  In general, people shot better with muff and plugs and even more so with the helmet, goggles and plugs.  However, no one liked shooting with the helmet because of comfort reasons.  I also found out that how well people shoot is inversely proportional to their willingness to tell you about how well they can shoot.

What's mediocre?

It is not the gun so much as the man behind it. The lousy .45 shooters you know would suck with any pistol if they don't commit to learning how to shoot properly and invest the time required.

Stopping power ?1?!?! There isn't any such thing, all the major service calibers perform about the same (poorly, unless of course M&S is to be taken as gospel).  I could post the famous gelatin picture like I did in the other thread about 9mm, but I don't think I will, unless people want to see it.    I like the .45, but 9 is fine.  The idea of a 10mm is pretty sexy, too, but not real sure because of the recoil.  I'd take whatever I could hit the easiest with, myself.  I've heard .45's are actually soft shooters in some cases (G21 comes to mind).  

Sad to say but poor shooting is not limited to those who carry a .45 but rather most of those that carry anything.

It's not about the gun it's about the shooter, I know I can find a much better shot than you with a .45 and I bet someone could find someone better then him. To me it's preference and what you feel comfortable training with and how good a shot that person is.

It's okay to be mediocre with a .45.  .45ACP is so powerful that near miss is enough to kill.  And just the look of a 1911 is enough to scare the BG's away.  Kinda lack racking the slide on a shotty.

oh, and

Quoted: Quoted: 15 rounds in the gun so i think i'm pretty much covered. Take a handgun class sometime and you might change your mind.

Uhh, does Police academy, combat handgun 1 and 2, NRA personal protection and pistol instructor cover that?

Quoted: 99 % of the shooters I see are mediocre or less and I dare say that would include you jb241970.

well, i did say i was picking a fight, but wow, the personal attacks!!

99% huh, you are very unforgiving!

And the worst shot I know (as in "the best place to be is between him and the target" bad) carries a Glock 9mm.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 15 rounds in the gun so i think i'm pretty much covered. Take a handgun class sometime and you might change your mind. Uhh, does Police academy, combat handgun 1 and 2, NRA personal protection and pistol instructor cover that?

Nope.  Go to Gunsite for a week and show them what you think you know about shooting.  The NRA classes are a fucking joke, and police training isn't much better.

OK OK tough guys. I NEVER said I knew better than anyone, including my buddies I was shooting with today.
Mostly, i posted this as a joke because i knew it would ruffle feathers, it was just an observation i had about the pro-.45 guys i was shooting with and them sounding like many of the .45 people on this forum.

so from what i've read i've learned: I need to carry spare mags off duty, my training ain't shit, and I know even less because I went to police academy, which would probably mean working in a high crime area made me less "situationally aware" than some of you fellas.

thanks guys, it's been a fun learning here tonight.

No crying Bro, trust me i'm laughing.

Quoted: Quoted: No crying Bro, trust me i'm laughing. That's me crying............you called me a tough guy.

LOL!! You're alright!

At the range today, a dude had a 6" .357 at 25 Meter steel.  He fired every shot four feet to the left.  Four feet.   He didn't even try to walk it over to the steel. His carry piece, a mid sized glock was equally worthless.  I think he got 5 hits out of 50 rounds.


............maybe his gun was....bent!

No matter what you shoot, if you don't practice and become proficient you ain't gonna do noth' in  but "spray and pray" when the adrieneline kicks in. There are two things to fear in a gun fight, the lucky shot, is one, the trained shooter is the other. Have you won any lotteries latley?

Quoted: It is not the gun so much as the man behind it.

That's what he's saying.  The question is, why are bad shooters drawn to .45s?

Quoted: Quoted: It is not the gun so much as the man behind it. That's what he's saying.  The question is, why are bad shooters drawn to .45s?

I think you're wrong about that, mot cops have .40s.

I hate to break it to you bud(but I guess you may have found it out by yourself)not everybody is as gifted as others!!!  Some people no matter how hard they try and train with get anybetter than proficent with thier peice!!!!!

While others just seem to be able to hit anything, with anything you give them!!

You just may be one of these people that will outshine everyone they will ever shoot against!!

You then can broaden your skill and join other gifted shooters in competition!

Then you can brag when you best others that are finely honned,and the best of the gifted!

Till then shut your yap!!!! And you won't see any nine mills out there!!!


Bob

maybe 9mm hi-cap pistols were made because 9mm shooters were lousy shots and slow reloaders

I have always been mucho better with a long gun than a handgun. Getting a rifle to be dead ass on was a gift from day one. Even as I get older and my eyes are starting to suck, I am still very good with long guns.

Most handguns have always been half close in my hands at best. I think the Glock (23) I used to carry was the  worst I ever had. I was lucky to get a headsized group at 25 feet.

I have gone back to my 1911's, Officers for T Shirts, full sized any other time. For some reason I do seem to shoot them better than any other handgun I have ever had, but overall I still suck with pistols. A dogs life indeed.

A 9mm might expand, but a .45 will never shrink.

<==mediocre 1911 guy.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is not the gun so much as the man behind it. That's what he's saying.  The question is, why are bad shooters drawn to .45s? I think you're wrong about that, most cops have .40s.

Quoted: Quoted: Uhh, does Police academy, combat handgun 1 and 2, NRA personal protection and pistol instructor cover that? Obviously not

If you teach LEO's to shoot, I guess you aren't near as good as you say you are, or else we'll just blame you for their pitiful shooting.

i dont know if it was me, or my pistol...but i used to have an old Colt 1911, and i couldnt shoot it for shit....so i gave it to my dad and bought an XD40, and i shoot it a TON better than that old 1911.  was it me? was it the gun? was it a mix of both?  

.45's are more expensive to shoot, so maybe there is less practicing going on with the .45's than those with the 9mm's.

WOW! Lots of opinions.

Here are my .02 worth. Just as one person said, I too am better with a long gun than I am with a sidearm. Years ago, when I had my first 1911, I became very proficient after a while. This was due to a lot of practice. I had previously owned a 4" .38 revolver and a Colt Python .357. I liked the 1911 a lot better. I got accustomed to shooting a .45 and I liked the feel and response. Today, I own a G21 and a G30 (recently acquired). After several years of going without firing a handgun, I have managed to attain fairly good results with the G21. As for the G30, I have yet to fire it. Before the G30 found a home in my small arsenal, it was preceded by a Taurus PT140SSP Millineum PRO. Although the little .40 S&W was a nice handgun, I had a hard time controlling it. I think what was getting me was the trigger pull and being a light weapon with a smaller grip (Like the grip on my G30 better). I also tended to overcompensate with my support hand. I did not have this problem with the G21 and, hopefully, will not have it with the G30.

As for .45 ACP in general, our military and police units used this caliber for years. It had the most stopping power of anything available at the time. The biggest limitation was the 7 rd. magazine. I think that is why we saw the insurgence of the 9mm, and some others, into today's infrastrusture. The 9mm has given users the advantage of having more ammo in one stick. My question is why would you need more 9mm than you would .45 ACP? Could it be that it takes more to get the job done? If I were a BG, I would much rather be hit with a 9mm than a .45 (caliber size). I think I would stand a better chance of surviving. Of course, that all depends on where I was hit (shot placement).

I would venture to say that some 9mm owners bought because of the magazine capacity, some .45 owners bought because of the caliber, and some .40 owners bought becuse they considered it to be a compromise. People buy a particular weapon for a certain reason, whatever that reason may be, thay are entitled. Some people strive to be excellent marksmen and some just want to shoot for fun. Many people, many skill levels, many guns, many choices, and many OPINIONS.

Quoted: Quoted: Uhh, does Police academy, combat handgun 1 and 2, NRA personal protection and pistol instructor cover that? Obviously not

Beat me to it.

Quoted: This is one of the best threads ever.

no it's not.