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Posted: 8/17/2017 7:59:00 PM EST
I never really noticed this before, but it seems like when I use a firm 2 handed grip slows my speed down of my trigger finger.

Now, the thing is, it won't translate to speed because of recoil and muzzle jump. But when I'm dry firing and there is no recoil, I can run the trigger faster with 1 hand than 2. Like the clamping of my support hand slows down the movement of my right hand.

Double action of course.

Anyone else notice this happening to them? It's probably bad technique. But because you have to use some muscles in your right hand to pull a 12# trigger, it does seem feasible.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 9:17:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2017 9:26:19 PM EST by 1MoreFord]
No, most folks don't notice. That's why you see so many folks talk about crushing the grip. However you're exactly right. This gets discussed a lot on Brian Enos' forum.

I do though.

Grip the gun firmly enough with your strong hand to present it to your weak hand. Once you have a two hand grip established provide the majority of the grip with your weak hand. This allows your trigger finger to run freely. Thank me later. I predict there will be a lot of folks come by to tell you I'm wrong.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 8:47:04 AM EST
Never really notice but I don't death grip my handguns and my double action trigger pull on my competition revolvers is closer to 8lbs than 12lbs.  In practice at anything much beyond about 20ft and my ability to keep the sights on the target is a bigger limit on my splits times than my ability to stroke the trigger.  On close hoser stages I can manage about a .25  second split on my double taps.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 10:08:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mcb:
Never really notice but I don't death grip my handguns and my double action trigger pull on my competition revolvers is closer to 8lbs than 12lbs.  In practice at anything much beyond about 20ft and my ability to keep the sights on the target is a bigger limit on my splits times than my ability to stroke the trigger.  On close hoser stages I can manage about a .25  second split on my double taps.
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With a revolver you can manage 1/4 second split times?
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 10:11:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/18/2017 10:11:49 AM EST by JJREA]
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Originally Posted By 1MoreFord:
No, most folks don't notice. That's why you see so many folks talk about crushing the grip. However you're exactly right. This gets discussed a lot on Brian Enos' forum.

I do though.

Grip the gun firmly enough with your strong hand to present it to your weak hand. Once you have a two hand grip established provide the majority of the grip with your weak hand. This allows your trigger finger to run freely. Thank me later. I predict there will be a lot of folks come by to tell you I'm wrong.
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That's the opposite of what I'm saying. Once I put my left hand on there and grip over my right hand, it sort of retards my right trigger finger. I might be squeezing too hard. It doesn't really bother me in slow fire, but having said that, I'm always up on learning what I'm not doing right. LOL. With an auto, there is just so much more less movement for it to matter, although it might still, depending on the gun. Probably another reason why 1911's and my HiPower are my most accurate pistols for me.

But my 6" Model 19 is also very accurate. Double action.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 1:12:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JJREA:


With a revolver you can manage 1/4 second split times?
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Probably not as consistently as I would like but on a hoser stage if I am focused I can do it.

This stage is probably a good representation.  It's a bit dated as I have not been taking my camera with me to matches lately.  This was the first match I had shot my Model 10 and speed-loaders in.  The first time through the stage is the Model 10 the second run through the stage is with my regular USPSA Revolver (S&W 627) and you can see the speed difference in both the splits and the reloads.

https://youtu.be/jqCOoHrLNzY?t=1m8s
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 3:19:41 PM EST
Great shooting. Cool reload technique and yeah, those first shots in those first 2 stages were pretty darned fast.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 4:52:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
Great shooting. Cool reload technique and yeah, those first shots in those first 2 stages were pretty darned fast.
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The thing is that when I went to find a video example of some quick splits from my old videos I realize watching them that all in all most of the stages I shoot at USPSA and IDPA matches I rarely get to do more than one or two real fast double taps on targets simply due to stage construction.  So many shots are far enough, tight enough, or shot on the move that you cannot afford to just grip-it and rip-it.  Fast splits are certainly good for your score but not as good as being able to make the long and tight shots and planning your reloads so you do as few standing reloads as possible.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 8:20:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JJREA:


That's the opposite of what I'm saying. Once I put my left hand on there and grip over my right hand, it sort of retards my right trigger finger. I might be squeezing too hard. It doesn't really bother me in slow fire, but having said that, I'm always up on learning what I'm not doing right. LOL. With an auto, there is just so much more less movement for it to matter, although it might still, depending on the gun. Probably another reason why 1911's and my HiPower are my most accurate pistols for me.

But my 6" Model 19 is also very accurate. Double action.
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I realize you said with Your two hand grip you are slower. I'm saying with a two handed grip you should be using your weak hand to provide the most grip support which should free up your trigger finger to move more freely. I'm betting you're somehow gripping even more than normal with your strong hand when using two hands. This is guarantied to slow down your shot to shot time.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 3:57:55 PM EST
Hmmmmm, interesting thought. I'll have a look at that.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 2:27:29 PM EST
My splits on my 625 (target under 10 yards and using both hands) are from .25 to .3 so I am sure there are many that can do .2
10 to 20 yards and they run more like .4 if the target is open.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:00:39 PM EST
Well, I think it really would only matter if I'm trying to get 1/4 second split times. Which I probably don't NEED to do. I'm not competing. I'm not sure shooting that fast is a necessity in a gunfight. Maybe it is... I don't know. But 1 shot per second feels like an eternity and I think I can do 1/2 seconds pretty easily. It's when I really start to push speed on the trigger pull that I notice the clenching of my support hand could cause it to be a tad slower.
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