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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/30/2005 1:22:10 PM EDT
I just got a Loaded Springfield to go with my Mil-Spec. I took it to the range today and it shot about 1 1/2 to 2 inches low. All the rounds were grouped tightly together (ragged holes). Is it the pistol or me? Do I need to break it in? Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:29:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:29:57 PM EDT by racezilla500]
Did you bench shoot it? That's what I always do when I get a new pistol. I first bench shoot it to see what it is capable of.
Also, what distance?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:43:54 PM EDT
The first 8 rds I shot standing. Once I noticed that they were low I tried kneeling and resting my arms on the table. Once again I noticed they were low, closer together but low. This was about 20 yds in an indoor range.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:47:29 PM EDT
2" low at 20 yds? for non-adjustable sights is good.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:53:10 PM EDT
Replace your standard Novak with an Officers Model Novak. Puts your point of aim at a perfect six o'clock.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 3:19:39 PM EDT
This is a VERY common issue with the loaded model. I sent mine back to Springfield, and they replaced the front sight and shipped it back to me.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:39:08 PM EDT
What bullet weight?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 1:08:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
2" low at 20 yds? for non-adjustable sights is good.



In the Eye of the Beholder.

Many, including myself, wouldn't be satisfied.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 8:33:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:
Replace your standard Novak with an Officers Model Novak. Puts your point of aim at a perfect six o'clock.



Novak only sells complete sets, and they are, um, a little proud of them. I replaced the front Novak on my MC Operator with a unit from Ameriglo for $39. I used part number CT-160-140, which is a sight .140 inches tall. The factory unit is significantly taller. For me, it brought up my point of impact perfectly at 25 yards and closer. At 50 yards the gun actually shoots a bit high now, but its better than shooting low all the time.

www.ameriglo.net/store_pages/springfield_sights.html

P.S. I highly recommend Ameriglo, I have them on my Operator and on my Glock 35, they drop right in, glow nice and bright, and don't break the bank. What else do you want?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 1:18:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hansford:
This is a VERY common issue with the loaded model. I sent mine back to Springfield, and they replaced the front sight and shipped it back to me.



Why do you suppose this is? Are they using a longer link than they should in an attempt to get a tighter lockup? Or are they just putting the wrong sights on? Why has this been going on for so long? Surely they don't want this kind of warranty work!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:13:57 AM EDT
Vandal, its a very valid question. If you go to the m1911.org forums you'll see lots of posts regarding them shooting low. Alot of people send them back and Springfield customer service returns them with a lower front sight post (turnaround time is a matter of weeks), so Springfield must be aware of the issue. I don't get it.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:40:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Originally Posted By desertmoon:
Replace your standard Novak with an Officers Model Novak. Puts your point of aim at a perfect six o'clock.



Novak only sells complete sets, and they are, um, a little proud of them. I replaced the front Novak on my MC Operator with a unit from Ameriglo for $39. I used part number CT-160-140, which is a sight .140 inches tall. The factory unit is significantly taller. For me, it brought up my point of impact perfectly at 25 yards and closer. At 50 yards the gun actually shoots a bit high now, but its better than shooting low all the time.

www.ameriglo.net/store_pages/springfield_sights.html

P.S. I highly recommend Ameriglo, I have them on my Operator and on my Glock 35, they drop right in, glow nice and bright, and don't break the bank. What else do you want?



IIRC brownells has the novaks listed seperatly for order.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:10:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 7:12:53 AM EDT by hansford]

Originally Posted By vandal:

Originally Posted By hansford:
This is a VERY common issue with the loaded model. I sent mine back to Springfield, and they replaced the front sight and shipped it back to me.



Why do you suppose this is? Are they using a longer link than they should in an attempt to get a tighter lockup? Or are they just putting the wrong sights on? Why has this been going on for so long? Surely they don't want this kind of warranty work!



I am sure they are aware of it, and I believe the issue is an incorrect front sight. For the most part it seems SA makes a good product and their warranty service is responsive. However, it is frustrating having to have something worked on that should have been good to go to begin with. Perhaps it is cheaper to service the warranty than it is to go the extra mile to begin with. As an example of cost cutting measures, recently 1911s have been leaving SA with glued ejectors instead of pinned ones (a search at tacticalforums.com will turn up those threads). Also, M1A shooters online have long been discussing such issues (a common topic of discussion at the old battlerifles.com site, now amback.com)

PITA, I know, but I would let Springfield fix it. Aside from the sight issue, and some worn out MIM parts (which is reasonable with the amount I shoot), I have had no further problems.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 10:54:08 AM EDT
I emailed Springfield about the same problem, and they sent me a new front sight and a return auth. for the old one. They would have replaced it for me, but I hate to send a gun away from home. They are clearly aware of the problem, and I hope they've corrected it for new ones coming out of the plant.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:49:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:51:41 PM EDT by hrt4me]
I asked the same thing 2 weeks ago: Click Here For Previous Thread.

I e-mailed Megan@Springfield-Armory.com and she sent me a new higher Novak rear sight, which I got earlier this week. I haven't installed it yet, but I plan to do so this weekend and then shoot again to see whether it makes a difference.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:41:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Originally Posted By desertmoon:
Replace your standard Novak with an Officers Model Novak. Puts your point of aim at a perfect six o'clock.



Novak only sells complete sets, and they are, um, a little proud of them. I replaced the front Novak on my MC Operator with a unit from Ameriglo for $39. I used part number CT-160-140, which is a sight .140 inches tall. The factory unit is significantly taller. For me, it brought up my point of impact perfectly at 25 yards and closer. At 50 yards the gun actually shoots a bit high now, but its better than shooting low all the time.



You can buy Novak front sights in various different sizes from Brownell's.

I called Ameriglow today and talked to the guy. I asked him about the sights and they sound precisely the same as the stock sights, only in various sizes. By my mental midget mathematics, I needed to cut .036 from my front to get the appropriate point of aim.

Springfield stock on my pistol was a .180" front sight. That's per Springfield (I called and asked) and verified with a digital caliper. I ordered a .140.

The nice folks at Ameriglow even gave me a coupon code for the online ordering (it's easier for them to process my order online using the form because I don't have to spell everything) and all told, it cost me about $15 less than it would from Brownell's.

Can't beat that with a stick, or as they say in Arfcom parlance, +1.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 2:55:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 3:01:41 PM EDT by effinNewGuy]
Ask a Navy SEAL
By Lt. Ryan Cusper
August 30, 2005


Dear Navy SEAL,
New Springfield is shooting low
I just got a Loaded Springfield to go with my Mil-Spec. I took it to the range today and it shot about 1 1/2 to 2 inches low. All the rounds were grouped tightly together (ragged holes). Is it the pistol or me? Do I need to break it in? Thanks.

-Skinny in Kentucky

Dear Skinny,

What in fucks name are you doing aiming low for? You aim low you shoot low for chrissakes! The .45 caliber Springfield Armory sidearm might not be an ideal long-distance weapon, and it's certainly no sniper's rifle, but it has the advantages of low weight and quicker target acquisition. You can reliably engage aggressors at ranges of 30 meters and more. Use a two-handed grip and brace the barrel against a tree, or use your dive tanks and rebreather as an improvised bench rest. Don't worry about "stopping power": One of those .45 slugs opens up to about 70 caliber when it hits, leaving an exit wound you could toss a cat through, and bringing so much energy to a target that a hit in the extremities is often enough to drop Mohammed in his tracks.

.......................................................................................................................................................


Lt. Ryan Cusper is a combat-decorated Navy SEAL and nationally syndicated advice columnist. His weekly column, Ask A Navy SEAL, appears in 250 newspapers nationwide.

- with apologies to the Onion.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:00:04 PM EDT
Hahahahaha.... Nice reply!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:20:59 PM EDT
If it is shooting low, why the hell don't you just take a couple of thou off the front site for petes sake? I'd rather have a pistol shoot low then shoot high, especially with a tall front site. It's not that hard to file it down with a couple of swipes, try it out with the load you will be using and continue til you are satisfied. I would not worry about 2" low if you are shooting at 25 yards, and I would not do anything til I ran a bit more ammo thru it. Also what ammo were you using? Different weights will affect the groups up or down. Also what hold were you using? 6 oclock? Middle of the bullseye, what? Before you send it back or change sites do a bit more research. If you put a new site on it you will probably do a bit of filing anyways if you are really picky.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:03:26 PM EDT
I have read the threads about the Springers shooting low. Most of it is probably a too tall front sight, but some is ammo related, if I read some of the posts correctly.
A hotter load and/or a lighter buller will shoot low, compared to regular ol' 230gr. ball. A faster bullet leaves the barrel sooner- the barrel is lower in the reciol/muzzle flip arc.
Unless you are dedicated to that particular load check the poi against some ball ammo. If the ball hits poa adjust your handload.
I have had a few friends who would not change their load if GOD himself said to, but had problems with their poi.
I shoot a Springer Custom Loaded in falling plate matches. I have adjusted loads using different weight bullets to all hit the same poa. It takes a little load developement, but it's worth it.
Just a thought,
Jim
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:16:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:
If it is shooting low, why the hell don't you just take a couple of thou off the front site for petes sake? I'd rather have a pistol shoot low then shoot high, especially with a tall front site. It's not that hard to file it down with a couple of swipes, try it out with the load you will be using and continue til you are satisfied. I would not worry about 2" low if you are shooting at 25 yards, and I would not do anything til I ran a bit more ammo thru it. Also what ammo were you using? Different weights will affect the groups up or down. Also what hold were you using? 6 oclock? Middle of the bullseye, what? Before you send it back or change sites do a bit more research. If you put a new site on it you will probably do a bit of filing anyways if you are really picky.



OK, this isn't my first 1911. It's my 3d. Out of the 3, I have one that shoots consistently low with all ammunition. That means factory ammunition, my reloads that shoot consistently where I want them with my other .45s, etc.

I'm not filing on a front sight full of tritium, either.

This isn't any 2" low at 25 yards, either. I wouldn't care about that. This is 2" low at 7 yards. It's a lot more low at 25 yards. As it stands, I have to aim at the top of the bull to hit the center of it at 15 yards. When I have my entire target covered with front sight, I can't see the target and it negatively impacts my ability to hit said target.

Thus, I am going to adjust my pistol to work with what I shoot. It makes sense to me and it's only $50 to replace the front sight with one that will put my rounds right where I want. And me, I'd rather have one that shoots a little high than one that the bullet trajectory never crosses the sight line.

Now, if I hadn't already tried every load I've shot in my Kimber and my Colt that works just fine, and if I hadn't tried about four different kinds of commercial ammunition, I wouldn't be messing with this.

Either way, I've been doing this a long time and I kind of know what I'm doing. After 32 years of shooting, I've sort of figured out what works for me.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:47:56 PM EDT
kk7sm is it possible that it isn't the front sight being too tall, but that the dovetail wasn't cut deep enough? 2" low at 7 tards is a significant error. I wonder if they are either not milling the slots correctly, if the sights are mismatched or the sights themselves are made to the wrong specs?
Having 1 pistol out of 3 shooting that differently definately points to a manufacturing problem.
Jim
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:56:41 PM EDT
big deal my new springfield was shooting groups 8" low at 15 yds. Sent back twice and got it within 4." Traded it in for a new Armalite. No more Springfields for me.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:25:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
kk7sm is it possible that it isn't the front sight being too tall, but that the dovetail wasn't cut deep enough? 2" low at 7 tards is a significant error. I wonder if they are either not milling the slots correctly, if the sights are mismatched or the sights themselves are made to the wrong specs?
Having 1 pistol out of 3 shooting that differently definately points to a manufacturing problem.
Jim



Yep, the dovetail is just a skosh high, but not enough to make that much difference. I'm figuring there's a combination of things at work here, but this pistol is really reliable, even when I'm clearing out the .45 stash of old semiwadcutters and other junk that won't cycle through the Kimber. This Springfield just feeds and fires about anything, and that's a useful feature.

VTwin60, I wasn't really in the market for another AR at the time. I was wanting another 1911, more or less with certain features, and this Springfield has the features I want. I could send it in to SA and get the sights done, but I have the tools and the know-how here, so I'll just fix it myself.

Armalite makes a great rifle, though - but that's just not what I want.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:00:00 AM EDT
Sent my Loaded Springfield back because of this and several other issues. They will make it right and do a good job fixing what should have been right to begn with.

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