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Posted: 6/30/2015 2:11:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2015 12:58:26 PM EDT by backbencher]
as good as 9x19?

20 years ago (24?) - I bought a .40" S&W Glock 23, as it had similar ballistics to what the FBI was then packing, w/ a larger magazine. Now, we have reached the point that 9x19mm, w/ proper bullets, will meet the FBI 12" protocol. We are starting to see some .380" ACP bullets also meet the 12" FBI protocol. In 20 years (or less), will the .380" ACP emerge from its "mouse round" legacy and become a proper defensive cartridge?

Discuss.

ETA: Sadly, the Tech Forums are becoming GD.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 3:24:51 PM EDT
25 ACP for the win in how many years?
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 4:12:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mcb: 25 ACP for the win in how many years?
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@ the current rate of progression? 60.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 4:31:06 PM EDT
I won't even look at a .380 until it's cheaper and more available than 9x19.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 5:05:46 PM EDT
.40 is better than .45
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 7:35:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 10mm_:
.40 is better than .45
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Link Posted: 6/30/2015 8:10:12 PM EDT
This debate will never end.
People only read and take away the elements they want to hear.

The FBI made the choice largely due to recoil sensitivity , which incidentally was a big factor in them walking away from 10mm
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:35:17 PM EDT
these caliber debates are getting old, especially the 9 vs 40 vs 45, seriously. they are all close enough to call it good and they will kill most 2 legged animals that are looking for trouble.

IMO 40 is not better than anything, too much snap, 9 and 45 are equal in my book

people that keep starting threads arguing or saying one is better than the other should just carry a whistle, so they can call someone who knows which caliber to use in case of a self defense situation
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 8:25:03 AM EDT
One Round to Rule Them All....357 Magnum
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 8:27:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Doppleganger871:
I won't even look at a .380 until it's cheaper and more available than 9x19.
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For some it comes down to other reasons than cost. That being said, in the last 5yrs 380 has come way down in cost.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 10:14:46 AM EDT
All pistol calibers suck in terms of stopping badguys. .45 just doesn't suck quite as bad!
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 10:48:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By KaseyK:
All pistol calibers suck in terms of stopping badguys. .45 just doesn't suck quite as bad!
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460SW Magnum kinda doesn't suck....
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 1:49:01 PM EDT
Since I posted this in a Tech forum, can we keep it vaguely on topic? There is a clear trend in bullet improvement by ammunition manufacturers, such that, while .45" ACP will clearly cut a larger hole through ballistic gel, .40" S&W will do almost as much damage, and 9x19mm, w/ the right bullets, will do almost as much damage as .40" S&W. Some of the latest .380" ACP loads are now meeting the 12" FBI protocol. Not that .380" will ever do as much damage as a similar bullet in .45" ACP, but that more & more .380" ACP loads will meet the 12" FBI protocol test.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 3:13:21 PM EDT
I'm currently looking at a 380 for the wife and doing some research on ammo for such a gun. I'm seeing numbers for +P JHP and JFP 380 rounds that are matching standard load 38SPL and 9mm (non +P) figures.

How those velocity and ft lbs of force figures translate into gelatin testing and real world performance against fully clothed bad guys are something I don't have. So it's all just a paper comparison on m part.

But standard load 38SPL and 9mm rounds have stopped and killed a lot of bad guys over the years. 380 rounds producing those same performance numbers certainly looks inviting for someone like me who needs to find a mouse gun that has a high probability of killing or disabling an attacker.

We may have reached the point where the reliability of 380 guns and now the power of the available ammo might have reached the point where it's like how reliable 4-cylinder and V-6 engines are now being produced that equal or exceed the performance of traditional V-8 engines.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 3:20:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By NorCalRT:


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Originally Posted By NorCalRT:
Originally Posted By 10mm_:
.40 is better than .45


connect the dots.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 3:20:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Red-ryder:
This debate will never end.
People only read and take away the elements they want to hear.

The FBI made the choice largely due to recoil sensitivity , which incidentally was a big factor in them walking away from 10mm
View Quote
Old wives take.
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 1:30:57 AM EDT
I doubt it. There may continue to be improvements making the .380 do what we all want it to do, penetrate deeply and expand, but it will never do what a 9mm can do. That being said, I wouldn't go as far as to say .380 is not a "proper" defense round. You can miss all day long with a larger caliber, or get solid hits with a .380 and hope to stop the threat. Plenty of time cards have been punched with .380's.
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 11:53:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By FlyingGorilla: I'm currently looking at a 380 for the wife and doing some research on ammo for such a gun. I'm seeing numbers for +P JHP and JFP 380 rounds that are matching standard load 38SPL and 9mm (non +P) figures.

How those velocity and ft lbs of force figures translate into gelatin testing and real world performance against fully clothed bad guys are something I don't have. So it's all just a paper comparison on m part.

But standard load 38SPL and 9mm rounds have stopped and killed a lot of bad guys over the years. 380 rounds producing those same performance numbers certainly looks inviting for someone like me who needs to find a mouse gun that has a high probability of killing or disabling an attacker.

We may have reached the point where the reliability of 380 guns and now the power of the available ammo might have reached the point where it's like how reliable 4-cylinder and V-6 engines are now being produced that equal or exceed the performance of traditional V-8 engines.
View Quote


Just FYI, last night a gal came in & wanted to look @ the cute colored Taurus .380". She couldn't rack the slide. Then I handed her a full size 1911 in 9x19mm. She racked it easily. Keep in mind her CC pistol tradeoffs are NOT your CC pistol tradeoffs.

And historically, no pistol round has a high probability of killing an attacker. Rifles & shotguns do.
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 12:23:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 10mm_:
.40 is better than .45
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Yup
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