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Posted: 9/7/2005 1:26:44 PM EDT
I am fairly knowledgeable about rifles, shooting, reloading, etc, but don't know alot about handguns. So I have a question: What is your opinion as to what is the most reliable semi auto pistol made ?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:27:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:38:09 PM EDT
Glock
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:40:21 PM EDT
Might be easier to say which ones aren't the most reliable instead? That would include most 1911s, IMO.

Otherwise, 99% of the major mfgrs such as H&K, Beretta, Sig, S&W, Glock, etc. etc. are all about equal for reliability, IMO.

Accuracy, OTOH, is a different story. There, H&K would be top dog.

My .o2
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:40:59 PM EDT
glock here too
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:47:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:00:16 PM EDT
Glock (but maybe not the real small ones)

Next!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:00:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
Might be easier to say which ones aren't the most reliable instead? That would include most 1911s, IMO.

Otherwise, 99% of the major mfgrs such as H&K, Beretta, Sig, S&W, Glock, etc. etc. are all about equal for reliability, IMO.

Accuracy, OTOH, is a different story. There, H&K would be top dog.

My .o2



I agree. The 1911s are not very reliable out of the box. I disagree about the accuracy though, HK makes some great guns, but I do not think that they can beat out a really nice custom 1911 design.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:05:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:20:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death_006:

Originally Posted By BobCole:
Might be easier to say which ones aren't the most reliable instead? That would include most 1911s, IMO.

Otherwise, 99% of the major mfgrs such as H&K, Beretta, Sig, S&W, Glock, etc. etc. are all about equal for reliability, IMO.

Accuracy, OTOH, is a different story. There, H&K would be top dog.

My .o2



I agree. The 1911s are not very reliable out of the box. I disagree about the accuracy though, HK makes some great guns, but I do not think that they can beat out a really nice custom 1911 design.



I also agree with Bob.. Putting HK and Sig on top.

As for the accuracy I still agree with Bob.. I would put a MK23 or USP Elite/Expert/Tactical up to any custom 1911.. And the rest of the HK line is not far behind.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:22:44 PM EDT
Overall, the HKs I believe are gonna beat all other brands. However that doesn't mean Glocks, Kimbers, or Sigs are crap. If I had to bet on which gun would stand up the best, by all means my money would be on the HK. AFAIC, 1911s are just fine. Yes some can be finicky. However, my Kimber 1911 has never hicupped EVER in 3000 rounds. Take it to the bank!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:37:18 PM EDT
+1 on the USP's im a glock guy but I do admit H&K really has one of the best pistols on the market.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 3:24:16 PM EDT
If you dont care about ergonomics the Ruger P series is one of the most reliable out there(flame incoming)
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 3:57:37 PM EDT
Sig
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 3:59:28 PM EDT
I vote Beretta 92F series
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:04:15 PM EDT

CZ 75B in 9mm.
15 rds of energizer bunny quality fun.
DaddyDett
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:05:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death_006:

Originally Posted By BobCole:
Might be easier to say which ones aren't the most reliable instead? That would include most 1911s, IMO.

Otherwise, 99% of the major mfgrs such as H&K, Beretta, Sig, S&W, Glock, etc. etc. are all about equal for reliability, IMO.

Accuracy, OTOH, is a different story. There, H&K would be top dog.

My .o2



I agree. The 1911s are not very reliable out of the box. I disagree about the accuracy though, HK makes some great guns, but I do not think that they can beat out a really nice custom 1911 design.



Of course not, a out of box gun is a completely different animal from a custom. It's comparing apples to oranges.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:07:33 PM EDT
GLOCK, straight from the box !!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:15:14 PM EDT
Glock, 9mm.
Unless you have a part fail (which rarely happens with Glocks), and you have good quality factory ammunition, you can bet your life (and you will) a 9mm Glock will fire and feed every time.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:29:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bossmonkey:
Glock, 9mm.
Unless you have a part fail (which rarely happens with Glocks), and you have good quality factory ammunition, you can bet your life (and you will) a 9mm Glock will fire and feed every time.



good quality factory ammo includes wolf when we're talking about glocks.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:43:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 5:44:50 PM EDT by olds442tyguy]
What do you consider reliable? Besides a Beretta and a 1911, all of the others have seen nothing in combat use when comparing. While the 1911's in military stock may have been going sour after 40+ years of use, you rarely ever hear anyone complain about it's reliability in WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Tell me any other newly produced pistol with that many real battles under it's belt. I'd like to know if your SIG has seen real consistent battle use in any arctic conditions. Has your HK ever rushed a town of hundreds of hostiles leading to an epic battle? Has any Glock ever swam through salt water, rushed a sandy beach, and killed enemies in a battle of thousands of people?

I myself find it foolish to judge the 1911 off of the currently produced corner cut 1911 design pistols of today. No matter what you have, it has not seen more battle then a 1911. When the HK's, Glocks, SIG's, and such actually go to a real war, I'll consider them proven reliable. Until then, range stories and factory tests won't cut it for me.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:51:43 PM EDT
Sig
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:01:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:

Originally Posted By Bossmonkey:
Glock, 9mm.
Unless you have a part fail (which rarely happens with Glocks), and you have good quality factory ammunition, you can bet your life (and you will) a 9mm Glock will fire and feed every time.



good quality factory ammo includes wolf when we're talking about glocks.



Ya I don't consider wolf "good"...
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:21:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
What do you consider reliable? Besides a Beretta and a 1911, all of the others have seen nothing in combat use when comparing. While the 1911's in military stock may have been going sour after 40+ years of use, you rarely ever hear anyone complain about it's reliability in WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Tell me any other newly produced pistol with that many real battles under it's belt. I'd like to know if your SIG has seen real consistent battle use in any arctic conditions. Has your HK ever rushed a town of hundreds of hostiles leading to an epic battle? Has any Glock ever swam through salt water, rushed a sandy beach, and killed enemies in a battle of thousands of people?

I myself find it foolish to judge the 1911 off of the currently produced corner cut 1911 design pistols of today. No matter what you have, it has not seen more battle then a 1911. When the HK's, Glocks, SIG's, and such actually go to a real war, I'll consider them proven reliable. Until then, range stories and factory tests won't cut it for me.



Well I did my 7 years in the millitary and carried and shot and cleared jams from many of 1911 and Beretta, also had the chance while I was in to shoot a MK23, well know I am out and pick the gun I carry.. Guess what its a HK USPC and when it comes to reliable I will put it up agains any gun out there.. lets say for any amount, how about my life as well as my familes.. well thats whats up for stake and you see the one I picked.. And all this been to war S*** well the MK23 has, may not have been a WW but its been put to the test and it beat out every other gun out there hands down. Thats why SOCOM picks the 1911 oh no the Berettaoh not not that one either oh ya HK thats right.. as well as Homeland Secutiry (they also use SIGs) 1911 uh NOPE..
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:52:05 PM EDT
If you did 7 years in the military and saw both the Beretta and 1911, that means you experienced old wore out 1911's. I forget what year it was, but someone posted about the last time the government bought a large quantity of 1911's and it was quite a bit before the Beretta.

As for your USP, I think they're great. However, if you shoot that gun often, I gurantee neither the frame, nor slide will last you a life time. Guns wear out, and I find it funny how quickly people deny that when it comes to the military's 1911's in the later years. Let's see how any handgun holds up after the frames and slides have been used for 40+.

As for the SOCOM, it never truly competed against a mil spec 1911. I'm sure it's a great handgun and more, but it has nothing in field use over the 1911. At the time, there wasn't a 1911 that was even eligible based off of SOCOM's specifications. The 1911 just didn't fall into the category of handgun they were looking for. I don't know how reliable the Mk 23 is in battle, do you?

Homeland security ruled out a 45, IIRC. Remember, many will say it was the reliability that killed off the 1911. In reality, it was switching to NATO specs, pricing, capacity, and new user safety requirements. The M14 was a reliable tank, but it got ditched in favor of new specifications also. It's all about what the military branch finds justifiable. MEUSOC found the Kimber Warrior justifiable, but the Navy didn't for their needs. Different people need different things, but that has nothing to do with reliability or else we'd all be using wheel guns and bolt actions.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:08:15 PM EDT
definitly AK pistols are the most reliable out there



sorry, as much as i love the 1911s, its glock imo (dont have enough rounds in HK or SIG yet)
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:11:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
Might be easier to say which ones aren't the most reliable instead? That would include most 1911s, IMO.

Otherwise, 99% of the major mfgrs such as H&K, Beretta, Sig, S&W, Glock, etc. etc. are all about equal for reliability, IMO.

Accuracy, OTOH, is a different story. There, H&K would be top dog.

My .o2



+1
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:23:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
we'd all be using wheel guns and bolt actions.



Good point however I was going on reliable Simi Auto as that was the original question.. The 1911 I used in the military were old that is for sure however I do own a new custom 1911 as well and I like the gun and love shooting it. However I have had it jam more then once. I would not put my life on it. As for my HK with as many if not more rounds threw it and no jams. It's also lighter, not more concealable, but lighter and more reliable and the one I bet my life on. As for going into battle if someone give me a choice of a NIB 1911 or MK23 and said your going in to fight pick your weapon I would go with the MK23, just from my experiences with 1911s and HKs.

As for lasting a lifetime, it may not but would I want to carry a gun that will last a lifetime and have a doubt in my mine if it will fire when I need it to, or carry a gun I might have to replace in 10 years but I feel will fire every time I pull that trigger?

A small point of the M14.. I carried a M14 around a flight deck many a hours on several occasions, as well as an M16 and the M14 may be a tank but man it weighs like one on the 4th hour of watch..


The great thing about America we can all have our own opinions.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:12:45 PM EDT
HK, without a doubt.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:57:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 8:59:26 PM EDT by Zardoz]
The pistols that I have had that never failed are:

Glock 19 (my current)
EAA steel-framed Witness (9mm and .45acp)
Makarov--the "AK" of pistols
Bersa Thunder .380
Taurus 101
CZ83

My 1911 (a SA GI model) had a few FTF at first, but after about 100rds, smoothed out, and ran fine.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:22:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
HK, without a doubt.



+1
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:55:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tvarden:

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:

Originally Posted By Bossmonkey:
Glock, 9mm.
Unless you have a part fail (which rarely happens with Glocks), and you have good quality factory ammunition, you can bet your life (and you will) a 9mm Glock will fire and feed every time.



good quality factory ammo includes wolf when we're talking about glocks.



Ya I don't consider wolf "good"...



Well, glocks eat it like candy, so it's good enough for me.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:01:46 PM EDT
In my collection CZ-75. My 1911 has never failed however I don't have one tenth the amount of ronds through. My Glock 22 has FTF twic smae ammo same clip same trip to range, I suspect it was the ammo.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:01:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:

Originally Posted By tvarden:

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:

Originally Posted By Bossmonkey:
Glock, 9mm.
Unless you have a part fail (which rarely happens with Glocks), and you have good quality factory ammunition, you can bet your life (and you will) a 9mm Glock will fire and feed every time.



good quality factory ammo includes wolf when we're talking about glocks.



Ya I don't consider wolf "good"...



Well, glocks eat it like candy, so it's good enough for me.



good enough.. ya but not good, it is great practice ammo if your gun takes it and you want to run it threw your gun. but not "good ammo", and yes a glock will eat it like candy with there loose chambers put a match barrel in your glock then tell me how great it shoots it...
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 12:29:28 AM EDT
Any of the full-size or compact Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, or Rugers.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 12:31:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
Might be easier to say which ones aren't the most reliable instead? That would include most 1911s, IMO.

Otherwise, 99% of the major mfgrs such as H&K, Beretta, Sig, S&W, Glock, etc. etc. are all about equal for reliability, IMO.

Accuracy, OTOH, is a different story. There, H&K would be top dog.

My .o2




Nothing unreliable about my Kimber 1911.
OOH RAH!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 12:56:47 AM EDT
For the money I would go with Glock or CZ. Who ever mentioned Rugers in my opinion is also on the money.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 1:09:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 1:10:52 AM EDT by AROptics]
My experience

List of those which never ever, ever jammed on me

-HK: every one has functioned flawlessly...from VP70 to HK Tactical .45
-Beretta 92 (and can shoot blazin fast and accurate). I don't know why some don't like it other than its size.
-SIG 226, 229 (only issue is the trigger is too long to reconnect on single action)
-every wheelgun I've ever owned
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 1:11:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 1:12:13 AM EDT by Maxxx]
Many modern semi-autos from the major companys will serve you fine. Sig, Glock, HK, Ruger, S&W, and the MAJOR 1911 makers. You will hear stories from people who will swear that all of them are POS and those that will sweer by them. The key is to find one that fits your hand and works for you. Period.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 1:13:09 AM EDT
Quality 1911
Browning Hi-power
Glock
SIG
HK
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 2:06:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Quality 1911
Browning Hi-power
Glock
SIG
HK



It's a shame the Hi-power is often over looked as a top handgun. We had the 1911 while the rest of the western world had the Hi-power.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:36:33 AM EDT
Between 1911s,Browning HP and Glock17, the HP and G17 hasnt ever giving any problems.

This is out of the box with no mods.

1911s work great,but only after exstensive mods.

Alot of 1911 makers to keep up with other makers priced, their using poorly cast parts.

TG
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 8:16:17 AM EDT
In case you haven't figured it out yet after ready the other responses, there is no one right answer.

There are a number of companies that are known for having very reliable guns...Glock, HK and Sig are the most popular but there are plenty of other companies that enjoy a very good and well earned reputation as well. That's not to say you can't buy a lemon from one of these companies. No manufacture is perfect but if you do have an issue, these companies are known for standing behind their products.

Accuracy is another personal thing. Nobody can tell you that HK's (or any other company's guns) are the most accurate. All they can tell you is that brand "X" is most accurate for them. Everybody is different. Some people shoot Sig's very accurately, some people can't shoot them well enough to save their life (literally).

The best thing you can do is find a local range that has rentals and try as many different types of handguns as you can and see which one works best for you. Once you have it narrowed down to one or two choices, come back and we can let you know if there is anything you need to look out for with those specific guns.

Good Luck
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 8:29:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tvarden:

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
we'd all be using wheel guns and bolt actions.



Good point however I was going on reliable Simi Auto.........



Sorry if I came across as being rude, I was a little tanked and fired up by the earlier foolish insinuations someone made of 1911 being the most unreliable. It is easy to question the quality of most out of the box MIM 1911's, but there are some very good ones out there.

I also just found out that the Marine's Expeditionary Unit, Special Operations Capable (MEUSOC), are actually now a division of SOCOM. The testing of the Kimber Det-1 had a bunch of reliability tests, including a 50k round count with out overhauling the pistol. The required 4 inch groups at 25 yards was very easily over come, to no surprise. I also learned that the Marines have been using worked 1911's even after the Beretta came into play.

Back on topic, my list would be as follows.

A quality 1911
HK USP or Mk 23
SIG 220 or 226
Glock 17, or 18
Beretta 92/96
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 1:30:30 PM EDT
GLOCK

This one is at 26,000 and counting.

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 1:40:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death_006:

I agree. The 1911s are not very reliable out of the box. I disagree about the accuracy though, HK makes some great guns, but I do not think that they can beat out a really nice custom 1911 design.




I don't think he had in mind custom 1911s. Not to mention, how many of us can afford those things?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 1:59:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 4:38:02 PM EDT
Glock
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:22:32 PM EDT
Tokarev



heh heh heh.......
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:29:45 PM EDT
Glock and Sig.
Right out of the box. I have no experience with HKs.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:39:20 PM EDT
my nod would go to sig first, glock second. i have TRIED to make my 226 misfeed and can't do it. cheap ammo, and even some serious limpwristing upside down- thing is a tank. have a glock 19 that's great, but i can make it jam if i really really try.

no experience with hk, but i suspect they're good as well.
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