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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 2/12/2003 2:47:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/12/2003 2:48:30 PM EST by Wave]
Link Posted: 2/12/2003 2:51:32 PM EST
I say try a few hundred rounds of some higher quality ammo. If you don't have any more malfunctions, I would never buy Olympic again.

Say, why did you retire the Cougar anyhow?
Link Posted: 2/12/2003 2:57:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/12/2003 3:03:30 PM EST
Honestly, I would give the Glock one more chance. that's just my opinion.

I know what you mean about the Cougar. I used to carry the 8000 Concealed!. I am a pretty thin guy so it didn't bother me too much. Now that I'm carrying the Glock 23, life is so much more comfortable.

After I have malfunctions in firearms, I can do nothing but take my mind off of figuring out what the hell happened. Sometimes I even feel betrayed by them (sounds sick, I know).

So what I usually do is load up on a hell of a lot of ammo and blast the gun, give it a run for its money. And after shooting it like that and the gun doesn't FTF, I put it all behind me and feel more secure in carrying it. I just ASSume the prior FTF was due to ammo.

again, just my .02
Link Posted: 2/12/2003 3:07:27 PM EST
Wave,

First, screw you for not letting me know you were going to an indoor range for a change. Second, I've had similar problems with Olympic ammo. Its hiccuped in my Glock, Beretta, Sig, and S&W. I swore the stuff off a long time ago. I've measured the Olympic krap in case gauges and found the tolerances to vary a tad too much for my taste.

I'm with M4_Aiming_at_U in that you should put it through its paces with real ammo...
Link Posted: 2/12/2003 3:20:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/12/2003 3:37:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By ChrisLe:
Second, I've had similar problems with Olympic ammo. Its hiccuped in my Glock, Beretta, Sig, and S&W. I swore the stuff off a long time ago. I've measured the Olympic krap in case gauges and found the tolerances to vary a tad too much for my taste....



That's funny? Over the last 1 1/2 years I've put at least 2000 rnds of Olympic 9mm through my Ruger P85 without a hiccup. I've used both the 115 grain and the 124 grain FMJ as well. Come to think about it, I've never had a jam with my P85. It just keeps going and going and......


Vulcan94
Link Posted: 2/12/2003 6:00:19 PM EST
Did you inspect the rim of the case to see if it appeared to be thicker then the rest of your ammo?
Link Posted: 2/12/2003 6:47:49 PM EST
I've never had a jam of any kind in my 26 using Wolf, Blazer, reloads, anything. I say give it another try before ditching it.
Link Posted: 2/12/2003 7:22:21 PM EST
It's the ammo, or a fluke.

I gave up on the Olympic 115gr stuff.... My glock 19 chokes on it, but never anything else. Shot up my last 2k of it and aint buying any more.

Have had good luck with the 124gr stuff thus far, after about 3k.

That's imported range, with a known history of poor sizing, loose bullets, hard primers, etc....

I would NOT let one instance with ammo of known poor quality control be the judge of my weapon.

Link Posted: 2/12/2003 9:02:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/12/2003 9:57:10 PM EST
i dont care too much for glock. just my 2 cents
Link Posted: 2/13/2003 12:40:02 AM EST
What followers do you have in your mags? If you have the 9mm1 followers try to find some 9mm3 followers. My wife has four mags with the 9mm3 followers and hasn't had any failures on her refurbed G26 with over 5K rounds now. I hear there is now a 9mm4 follower too. Your armorers should be able to give you these.

Glock and their 'upgrades'!
Link Posted: 2/13/2003 7:15:55 AM EST
Wave;

Will the guys doing the Glock "updates" for NYPD also do your G26? If so, I would let them do their thing on it. Probably the ammo, but better safe than sorry.

What else are you authorized to use off duty?
Link Posted: 2/13/2003 7:46:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/13/2003 7:50:45 AM EST by Wave]
Link Posted: 2/13/2003 7:48:54 AM EST
I say ditch the Glock!! This is how you do it, leave on the night sights, and mail it to Sharkman_75. During our Feb special, if your have the right serial #, I (er....we) will send you a bonus of $200!!! Don't delay, send the gun now!!
Link Posted: 2/13/2003 8:09:11 AM EST
Wave, I'd follow the advise and shoot 100 rounds of quality ammo. Probably a fluke. Can't you guys in NY have a mouse gun or ankle piece as a backup? A P-32 or J-Frame snubby should be on you at all times. All the cops I know here always carry 2 guns......At least!
Link Posted: 2/13/2003 8:19:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/14/2003 8:03:32 PM EST
Wave i say buy a G30 and sell that 26 to me :)
Link Posted: 2/18/2003 3:59:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/18/2003 4:07:43 PM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 2/18/2003 9:48:27 PM EST
So....
Did you ever take it to the range and try it out again?
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 5:14:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/19/2003 5:15:36 AM EST by Wave]
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 8:25:49 AM EST
My glock 29 did this all the time.. atleast once a mag and I have 4 mags.. I'm selling it to help fund my Wilson CQB.. never will I buy another glock. Plus they support ballistic fingerprinting AND that mr.jannuzo(sp?) shrugged when someone asked him about the boycott.. his shrug was meant to say "we don't give a fuck about our private sales"
Link Posted: 2/19/2003 4:41:42 PM EST
Ray,
Please keep us posted. Sounds like ammo to me. Clean under the extractor? Not chipped?

Art in KY
Link Posted: 2/21/2003 8:39:27 PM EST
Break out that Beretta, Ray. The Glock 26 is no longer on the approved list and is not to be carried anymore. Came over the FINEST tonight.
Link Posted: 2/22/2003 2:37:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Vinnie:
Break out that Beretta, Ray. The Glock 26 is no longer on the approved list and is not to be carried anymore. Came over the FINEST tonight.



Vinnie,
Are you serious? Is it still an option for an issued sidearm?
Art in KY
Link Posted: 2/22/2003 4:12:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/22/2003 4:44:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wave:
Vinnie is kidding. I'll just break out the Winchester 1300 12 gauge as a back up from now on.



I'm NOT kidding. Check with your command tonight. FINEST message was on the desk as I signed out. The Glock 26 is no longer on the approved off duty gun list and is NOT to be carried by MOS.

Art: they just mention the Glock 26. As far as I know the Glock 19 is still an authorized duty weapon.
Link Posted: 2/22/2003 4:46:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/22/2003 5:32:35 PM EST
I'm wondering if all these phase 3 malfunctions are due to the NY trigger springs. If in fact the NYPD using these. I've owned one Glock 17 (gen 1), one gen 2 G19, two G26s and a G21 and have never had a non shooter induced malfunction. I've used NY1 trigger springs but only with genuine Glock 3.5lb connectors, actually this is how my G21 is setup right now. There are a lot of Police Depts using Glocks and I've only heard NYPD that have a lot of problems. Maybe the others do but I haven't heard. The county police where I live used to use G20s now they carry G21s and G30s.
Link Posted: 2/22/2003 9:55:15 PM EST
TRUST ME !!! ITS THE OLYMPIC AMMO !!!! I HAVE SEEN PROBLEMS TOO BUT ONLY WITH OLYMPIC !!!LOTS OF BAD PRIMERS WITH OLYMPIC TOO. GLOCKS ROCK !!!
Link Posted: 2/24/2003 8:17:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/24/2003 8:19:53 AM EST by DeanSpeir]
Originally Posted By Wave:

Today I brought my chosen NYPD off duty weapon, a Glock Model 26 to the Mitchell Field Indoor Pistol Range in Nassau County, NY.
This weapon, if it is an "E" series Model 26, is no longer approved for off-duty or back-up, per an FTS directive issued 20 February 2003.

This is "a jam where a fired casing is partially extracted, the case rim still solidly lodged under the extractor with the mouth of the casing firmly wedged against the barrel hood. The casing is not vertical in position as in a stovepipe malfunction, but rather horizontal, exactly on the same plane as would be a cartridge loaded in the chamber but higher."
Precisely… couldn't have said it better m'self. Matter of fact, that's straight out of retired MOS Sean McMahon's Phase 3 Malfunction report.

But your Phase 3 malfunction and you job's taking "E" series Models 26 out of service are unrelated; that is an adjunct of the rear slide frame rails vulnerability within a certain manufacturing range.

Authorized off duty choices include: …2 other S&W single stack 9mm pistols (can't remember)
Doesn't matter… one of those models doesn't exist, and never has.

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Oh that's Dean Spier's website. I don't know whether he is the most impartial source of info on Glocks. Check out the article that says that a Glock 36 blew up with factory new loads on the main page, then when you read teh article the guy had been shooting lead reloads through it on a previous occaission.
And with all due respect, Aimless, I don't know that you are the most reliable of interpreters of rather straightforward information. That Model 36 Glock did self-destruct with factory ammunition, and not with "lead reloads."

But you seem to think that those earlier "lead reloads" are an issue here, enough that they somehow compromise my impartiality despite a full disclosure of all possibly relevant facts by the shooter. Please explain your reasoning.

Originally Posted By Vermilion:

Plus they support ballistic fingerprinting AND that mr.jannuzo(sp?) shrugged when someone asked him about the boycott.. his shrug was meant to say "we don't give a fuck about our private sales"
Another interesting interpretation… and as I was one who questioned him about that in person on 13 February, I'd say that you're over-reaching.

But it's something of a moot point at this stage of the game since Paul Jannuzzo was fired a week ago last night by Gaston Glock, and it had nothing to do with that 60 Minutes interview. (That said, intuitively, I wouldn't be surprised to see Jannuzzo resurface with the company which pioneered the Ibis "ballistic DNA" system, Forensic Technology of Montreal.

Originally Posted By Vinnie:

The Glock 26 is no longer on the approved off duty gun list and is NOT to be carried by MOS.
C'mon, Vinnie, that's not what the message stated! It was limited to alpha-serialization series "E" Models 26.

• Dean, jus' visiting from The Gun Zone
Link Posted: 2/24/2003 8:52:03 AM EST
Kind of off topic, but not all "E" series weapons are affected. We had 3 that were. Not all of our "E" Glocks needed to be replaced. They shipped us new frames, with the parts installed.

If your Glock's serial number begins with "E" call:
(866)225-4098

They can tell you over the phone. If you have several, they may ask you to fax a list of the serial number and model numbers.

Art in KY
Link Posted: 2/24/2003 9:22:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/24/2003 8:26:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By DeanSpeir:
Originally Posted By Vinnie:

The Glock 26 is no longer on the approved off duty gun list and is NOT to be carried by MOS.
C'mon, Vinnie, that's not what the message stated! It was limited to alpha-serialization series "E" Models 26.



I'll see if I can find the FINEST Message again and retype it word for word, but I do not recall anything said about E series guns, just that the Glock 26 is not to be carried by any NYPD MOS.
Link Posted: 3/4/2003 2:48:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:


Mr. Speir- My criticism of your report on that 36 is this-The title header states "And now, a Glock Model 36 kB!s The littlest Glock, almost new, self-destructs with factory new rounds" then the header on the article states "the parade of kB!s continues"

But when you go into the article it states that the shooter had shot about 100 lead reloads through the Glock, that certainly makes me suspicious.

Fair enough, but while I have no idea what sort of research you've done regarding shooting lead through Glocks, not only is it not prohibited anywhere in any Glock manual which I've seen, but the sole issue, in my never-quite-humble-enough-opinion, with lead projectiles in Glocks is the potential lead build-up in the leade which can ultimately keep a round from fully chambering; this amplifies two (2!) of the conditions which quite directly contribute to the notorious Glock kB! events: improperly supported case heads, and the ability of Glocks to fire significantly out-of-battery.

Even if the lead had nothing to do with it and the gun owner accurately reported that the barrel was in excellent condition, the gunsmith reported that the ammo was overcharged.

So the Glock failed because the ammo used in it was manufactured improperly (right?), yet you refer to the ammunition as "factory new rounds" why not "factory overcharged rounds"? The title phrasing sounds misleading to me, trying to give the impression that the Glock in question was at fault for the problem, rather than the improperly loaded ammunition.

Thank you for your perspective, but if people are convinced that I have a personal jihad against Glock and their products, then anything short of my joining in the daily orgy of tenifer-sniffing on GlockTalk and swearing undying fealty to Gaston Glock, is not going to change their mind.

My perspective (and that of most of the non-Kool Aid-drinkers) on that same information is that shooting non-standard (other than factory-new) in a Glock pistol chambering for something other than 9 X 19mm, is a v-e-r-y risky proposition, and that even sub-standard factory rounds can cause a catastrophic failure in a Glock.

being portrayed as "another crappy Glock blew apart" it gives me the impression that you have an agenda to portray Glocks as being poorly designed/manufactured/whatever even if the failure is not due to anything to do with Glock.
I understand your point, but nowhere in TGZ are the words even implied that "another crappy Glock" did anything!

If you read the piece following the directory to the Glock features, you'll note that I have a l-o-o-o-n-g history with Glock, and an have been a Glock-owner for more than a dozen years.

My primary issue with Glock, Inc. is that they not only know that their pistols are particularly susceptible to catastrophic failures, but they have a very good idea why… yet have never been forth-coming with their customers. (I invite you to spend a couple of hours on GlockTalk after doing a keyword search for "reload," and note the number of Glock-owning Members there who routinely and blissfully reload, or buy remanufactured ammo, reasoning, "Hey!, I'm a careful reloader. And besides, that's just stuff that all the gun-makers put in their manuals 'cause their lawyers make them do it."

The trouble with discussing Glocks is the issue seems stangely emotionally charged, people are angry if the pistol is criticized because they have some emotional attachment to them…
O, you noticed that, he? (I know one operator who has a Model 19 solely for instructional purposes, who is convinced that it's a "cult" of some sort!)

The wording of your article creates the impression in my mind that you are searching for incidents to support your theory that Glocks suck, rather than trying to determine on a case by case basis whether the Glock in question was faulty or even whether Glocks in general are not sufficient for their intended purpose.
Glocks do not suck! Some of Glock Inc.'s corporate policies do in fact suck, and those are what I have in my sights.

But for the record, I do not seek "incidents to support (my) theory that Glocks suck," because that is neither my theory or even working hypothesis, #1, and, #2, I have not actively pursured anything about kB!s in almost eight years; the issue is pretty much settled in my mind, and until Glock makes a couple of minor design "tweaks" (not likely) or a major policy change in respect to fuller disclosure (an even less likely happenstance), I'm not inclined to change my thinking.

All (as in everyone!) of the kB!s I've investigated and added to my own database since 1995, have been brought to me by those involved, usually with the preamble: "Damn!, I wish I'd heeded your advisory," or "Sorry I didn't know about your information 'til after this happened."

Not for nuthin', but you should see the ones I've declined to include!

• Dean, jus' visitin' from The Gun Zone
Link Posted: 3/8/2003 11:36:07 PM EST
Do you have a Glock Armorer in your department. It sounds to me that you may need to replace the spring loaded bering, or the ejector may be bent or broken.
Link Posted: 3/12/2003 6:55:11 AM EST
The so called "Phase 3 Malfunction" is caused by the 13# NY2 trigger spring. Switch back to the original spring and you shouldn't have anymore problems. Since you don't have the option of using any other spring for official use, take it to the Armorers and have them modify it.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:28:16 PM EST
Wave,
My Glock 26, whcih was bought in the first month they were availbale, has never malfunctioned. My Glock 19 however gave 5 years orf reliable service, but has started giving Phase III malfunctions as described in the first post in this thread. I have swapped out the recoil spring, detaio stripped and cleaned the slide, the extractor is not chipped or worn...I even bought 3 brand new LEO mags. it still has the Phase III malfunction when shooting Speer 147Gn GDHP, Win Ranger 147Gn SXT & Win Ranger 147Gn RA9T.
I'm going to try a lighter 17# recoil spring and see if that allows the casing to clear the ejection port instead of being traped between the breech face and barrel hood. None of my other glocks have had this type pf malfunction.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:58:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Wave,
My Glock 26, whcih was bought in the first month they were availbale, has never malfunctioned. My Glock 19 however gave 5 years orf reliable service, but has started giving Phase III malfunctions as described in the first post in this thread. I have swapped out the recoil spring, detaio stripped and cleaned the slide, the extractor is not chipped or worn...I even bought 3 brand new LEO mags. it still has the Phase III malfunction when shooting Speer 147Gn GDHP, Win Ranger 147Gn SXT & Win Ranger 147Gn RA9T.
I'm going to try a lighter 17# recoil spring and see if that allows the casing to clear the ejection port instead of being traped between the breech face and barrel hood. None of my other glocks have had this type pf malfunction.



Man, talk about a blast from the past. This thread is a year and a half old.

Oh and I was wrong about the FINEST message as stated above. it was for the 'E' series. I have a glock 26 to go with my 19. No malfuncions yet in either.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 3:35:41 PM EST
Wave,

I am an armorer for my local dept. When I have a problem with one of our Glock as described, the first thing that I do is chang the recoil spring and change the magazine spring and/or try a new magazine. If the recoil spring is not working properly it will affect the slide velocity. This could be causing your problem. If that is not the problem then I would disassemble the slide and check out the extractor, extractor bearing, and the plunger spring assembly. I hope this helps.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:20:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By K9Reserve:
Wave,

I am an armorer for my local dept. When I have a problem with one of our Glock as described, the first thing that I do is chang the recoil spring and change the magazine spring and/or try a new magazine. If the recoil spring is not working properly it will affect the slide velocity. This could be causing your problem. If that is not the problem then I would disassemble the slide and check out the extractor, extractor bearing, and the plunger spring assembly. I hope this helps.



The problem is that all NYPD weapons cannot be modified. If they were, and we were involved in a shooting, we'd lose the backing of the dept. (among other things)
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:45:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Vinnie:

Originally Posted By K9Reserve:
Wave,

I am an armorer for my local dept. When I have a problem with one of our Glock as described, the first thing that I do is chang the recoil spring and change the magazine spring and/or try a new magazine. If the recoil spring is not working properly it will affect the slide velocity. This could be causing your problem. If that is not the problem then I would disassemble the slide and check out the extractor, extractor bearing, and the plunger spring assembly. I hope this helps.



The problem is that all NYPD weapons cannot be modified. If they were, and we were involved in a shooting, we'd lose the backing of the dept. (among other things)



I believe he is saying replace the current Glock parts, with new OEM Glock parts.

Springs wear out.
Springs sometimes don't work as they should.

Link Posted: 9/1/2004 9:30:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
It's the ammo, or a fluke.

I gave up on the Olympic 115gr stuff.... My glock 19 chokes on it, but never anything else. Shot up my last 2k of it and aint buying any more.

Have had good luck with the 124gr stuff thus far, after about 3k.

That's imported range, with a known history of poor sizing, loose bullets, hard primers, etc....

I would NOT let one instance with ammo of known poor quality control be the judge of my weapon.




+1

It was probably a fluke... but I have heard complaints about Olympic ammo before... I say get yourself 500 rounds of WWB or WOLF (pretty much the cheapest stuff out there) and run it through your Glock... see what happens.

IF it happens again with different ammo... its a gun problem.

IF it does not, chalk it up to an ammo problem and dont go back to using that ammo again.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 6:18:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By ChrisG19:
The so called "Phase 3 Malfunction" is caused by the 13# NY2 trigger spring. Switch back to the original spring and you shouldn't have anymore problems. Since you don't have the option of using any other spring for official use, take it to the Armorers and have them modify it.



+1 go back to the original configuration and see if that works. I have a F series 19 that is my CCW and has the modified barrel (more beef under the locking block). This change was apparently made to alleviate the gen 3 prob that NYPD was having with thier 19's. The barrel mod with original fire control AND Klinton mags has been causing ftf (last round nose dives in particular) and raging discussions over on glocktalk. Folks that have been carrying/shooting/talking about Glocks for many years are totally down on the NY triggers.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:16:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 11:21:02 PM EST by Gunbunny]
not to bang on anybodys skill but I am a armorer and the frist thing I do when a operator brings a gun...any gun I doa little detective work make sure that the companing party first knows how to drive his or her gun and I see how they shoot to make sure that its not an operator induced.........might try that before you have the gun x-communicated.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 9:54:55 AM EST
Gunbunny,

I completely agree with you. Operator error always has to be ruled out. I was just saying that the recoil springs and the magazine springs account for the majority of Glock problems (which are rare especially in the 9mm).
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