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Page Handguns » H&K
Posted: 2/2/2016 5:07:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 11:29:59 PM EDT by orpheus762x51]
I'm looking for a new 45 and I'm interested to see what HK has to offer.  
If I go this route, it will be my first HK.

I'm leaning towards the HK45 Compact, but would be open to others.

I've handled the full size HK45 at my LGS and I'm not a huge fan of the finger grooves, so it is most likely out of the running.  I'd prefer the flat front strap of the HK45 Compact, USP, or USP compact.  I'm leaning more towards the HK45C just because it has the flat front strap and a picatinny rail.  Since I plan on using a Surefire X300u, the picatinny rail would take the headache out of adding an adapter and finding compatible holsters.


I'm also waiting on a SilencerCo 45 Octane, so whatever I end up with will need to have taller sights.  I am aware of the various "Tactical" models that HK offers, but it looks like (confirmed at LGS in the case of the HK45 line) they do not clear the Octane.

I am also aware the Heinie makes tall sights for the .45s I've mentioned, but I'm not a fan of the "dot-on-top-of-a-dot" sight picture.  


Is it possible to get the Heinie sights with a triple dot configuration, or with no tritium at all?  

Does anyone else make suppressor sights for any of those pistols that both: a) clear the SiCo Octane and b) have a "three-dot" sight picture?



Any other feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update 2/22/2016


RANGE REPORT:



First off, it took a little bit longer to get in because my FFL informed me that HK is no longer producing HK45s in colors (FDE/OD) anymore.  There are a lot of them out there, just they aren't making any new ones.  It looks like it's going to be black only from here on out.

Unfortunately, I didn't have the presence of mind to snap some pictures at the range, but I'll give everyone a quick run down.

The sights preformed well with the Octane 45.  As stated before, the sights don't clear the can, but they aren't buried in it either.  They come right up to the edge of the silhouette of the can, thus allowing for a sight picture that works.  I don't feel like I'm "shooting through the can" if that makes sense.  I may opt for taller sights in the future if I ever encounter a scenario in which it presents a problem, but I went through 100 rounds on day one, 70+ suppressed, and didn't see any issues.

As far as the performance of the gun itself, it was an absolute pleasure.  The single action trigger has a nice, clean break, with a positive reset.  It feels different from the Kimber Warrior I used to have, but not bad by any stretch of the imagination, just different.  The pull is slightly heavier, but nice and smooth with a predictably clean break.  The double action is heavy, but also very smooth.  I'm admittedly not used to a double action trigger pull, but it struck me as smoother than striker fired triggers I've handled in the past.

The ergonomics are phenomenal.  The grip angle is perfect, and the profile contours like it was made for my palm.  This is the first handgun I've owned with an undercut trigger guard, and after a couple magazines, I don't see how I ever got along without it.  The Safety/Decocker works intuitively, and the magazine release is great.  It took some getting used to at first, but the big paddle on the side of the trigger guard was easy to find every time after that, and made quick magazine changes a breeze.

When it came to accuracy, I was again blown away at the capabilities of this pistol.  I was putting dozens of rounds inside a ~4" circle at 10 yards.  I probably could have done a little better, but I was just blasting and having fun.  Needless to say, the HK45 can shoot.

I brought a buddy with me who had yet to be initiated in suppressed shooting.  He has a P30 that he let me shoot earlier, and was one of the driving reasons why I came to consider HK.  I handed him the HK45 equipped with the Octane and he had a new perspective from that moment on.  He later told me "man, you shouldn't have let me do that.  You're gonna cost me some money!".

All in all, it was a very productive day and I am immensely satisfied with my purchase.  I look forward to future HK acquisitions.

Link Posted: 2/2/2016 7:29:23 PM EDT
I think big cans deserve to have big guns, big guns have big calibers. My vote is the USP 45 Tactical full size. I mean where are you really going to use a can other than home protection or the range? If you gotta have a can use a big gun as long as it fits your hand.
Link Posted: 2/2/2016 9:06:21 PM EDT
That's a good point.

Even though the finger grooves are a bit of a turn off on the HK45, what are the real differences between it and the USP?

The tactical USP is the only one I haven't physically held, are the suppressor sights on it any better than the HK45 tactical?
Link Posted: 2/2/2016 9:32:57 PM EDT
I second the USP 45 tactical. I wasn't sure I would like the size, but after shooting it, I appreciate the feel. I am not sure if the sights will clear an Octane, but they are pretty tall. As for the light, the X300U fits well with the surefire adapter. (I found the remote switch for the light is a huge help as its tricky to operate the light without it unless you have very long fingers.  Here is a pic of mine to persuade you...

Link Posted: 2/2/2016 10:51:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ki_soarer:
I second the USP 45 tactical. I wasn't sure I would like the size, but after shooting it, I appreciate the feel. I am not sure if the sights will clear an Octane, but they are pretty tall. As for the light, the X300U fits well with the surefire adapter. (I found the remote switch for the light is a huge help as its tricky to operate the light without it unless you have very long fingers.  Here is a pic of mine to persuade you...

<a href="http://s34.photobucket.com/user/ki_soarer/media/IMG_6617.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/ki_soarer/IMG_6617.jpg</a>
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That's a fine looking weapon, thank you for sharing.

My LGS has a rental range, so I'll head over there when I have a free weekend and try them all out.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 1:21:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:



That's a fine looking weapon, thank you for sharing.

My LGS has a rental range, so I'll head over there when I have a free weekend and try them all out.
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By ki_soarer:
I second the USP 45 tactical. I wasn't sure I would like the size, but after shooting it, I appreciate the feel. I am not sure if the sights will clear an Octane, but they are pretty tall. As for the light, the X300U fits well with the surefire adapter. (I found the remote switch for the light is a huge help as its tricky to operate the light without it unless you have very long fingers.  Here is a pic of mine to persuade you...

<a href="http://s34.photobucket.com/user/ki_soarer/media/IMG_6617.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/ki_soarer/IMG_6617.jpg</a>



That's a fine looking weapon, thank you for sharing.

My LGS has a rental range, so I'll head over there when I have a free weekend and try them all out.

A USP Tactical is like an old Cadillac.  Too big for several applications,  but that big car comfort is second to none!
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 4:29:30 PM EDT
More ergonomic than a Glock 21

And I agree with the rest, the USP45 Tactical is what you seek. Although a Mk24 is also a good contender for this as well.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 4:35:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GSL:
More ergonomic than a Glock 21

And I agree with the rest, the USP45 Tactical is what you seek. Although a Mk24 is also a good contender for this as well.
View Quote



There's a reason I sold my glock 21 a long time ago.

Can the Mk23s even be had anymore?  I thought they were discontinued.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 4:40:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2016 4:41:46 PM EDT by GSL]
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:



There's a reason I sold my glock 21 a long time ago.

Can the Mk23s even be had anymore?  I thought they were discontinued.
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By GSL:
More ergonomic than a Glock 21

And I agree with the rest, the USP45 Tactical is what you seek. Although a Mk24 is also a good contender for this as well.



There's a reason I sold my glock 21 a long time ago.

Can the Mk23s even be had anymore?  I thought they were discontinued.
Will this just be a range toy?They can be found in the wild but you'd have success ordering online at some GS that specializes in HK's. The HK45C is the Mk24 Mod 0.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 5:05:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2016 5:07:01 PM EDT by JsARCLIGHT]
The rumors of the death of the Mk23 persist constantly.

HK still makes them and still imports them, just not in the numbers they do their other guns and no longer with the maritime finish. The new models get the same harsh enviro finish the Tacs get. My dealer has a brand new 2015 one on his wall right now.

BUT Speaking as a Mk23 owner, skip it.

Unless you are a die hard fan of the design you really gain nothing going Mk23 for the extra price you pay that you don't already get with the regular USP45 Tac... except for a different proprietary rail that is even harder to find adapters for and IMO better sights (more traditionally shaped three dot vs the Tac's billboard rear target style).
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 5:16:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GSL:
Will this just be a range toy?They can be found in the wild but you'd have success ordering online at some GS that specializes in HK's. The HK45C is the Mk24 Mod 0.
View Quote



I am planning on having it suppressed for the majority of shooting, but I may leave the can behind and push into concealed carry for a bit.  That's part of why I was considering the HK45C, but as some previous posters pointed out, a full size is better balanced with the can.

I'll probably end up with both eventually, but that won't be for a while so the big question is: which to get first?

Decisions, decisions.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 5:23:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
The rumors of the death of the Mk23 persist constantly.

HK still makes them and still imports them, just not in the numbers they do their other guns and no longer with the maritime finish. The new models get the same harsh enviro finish the Tacs get. My dealer has a brand new 2015 one on his wall right now.

BUT Speaking as a Mk23 owner, skip it.

Unless you are a die hard fan of the design you really gain nothing going Mk23 for the extra price you pay that you don't already get with the regular USP45 Tac... except for a different proprietary rail that is even harder to find adapters for and IMO better sights (more traditionally shaped three dot vs the Tac's billboard rear target style).
View Quote



Thanks for clarifying.

The biggest issue I need to solve is the suppressor sight thing.   I've had so many headaches with other pistols trying to hunt down suppressor sights that I'd like to just find something that works right out of the box.

I'd prefer to stick with factory HK sights if possible, but I just don't know if the tactical USP sights clear the Octane.  
Can the MK23 sights be installed on the USP and are they taller than the tac USP's?
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 5:36:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2016 5:45:59 PM EDT by JsARCLIGHT]
I can tell you from experience that Mk23 sights AND the USP45 Tac's sights will clear a 45 TiRant can, which has a OD of 1.38", very similar to the Octane.

Mk23 sights are unique to the Mk23, they cannot be installed on other HK guns... because the slide of the Mk23 has these elevated platforms the sights sit on. So rather than having super tall sights you have regular height white dot sights sitting on raised platforms that get them above the OD of the can. Whereas the suppressor sights on the USP45 Tac are what you'd expect, a big black shark fin up front and a tall adjustable billboard rear that sit right on the slide.

Edit: Something else to consider is what kind of sight picture you like to have. I have a Beretta 92FS with a Gemtech Multimount can on it and I just aim "through" the can using the stock three dot sights. If you are looking for match accuracy then that will leave a lot to be desired, but if you are going for minute of milk jug (which is how I usually shoot pistols) then it works fine.

Pic of my Mk23 with my TiRant installed. You can see that the sights easily clear the can. In my opinion the sight picture of the Mk23 with the can attached is one of the clearest of any suppressor host I've owned... but the thing accomplishes that by being a buick.



Edit Edit: Image from Firearm Tutorials.

Link Posted: 2/3/2016 5:42:26 PM EDT
HK USP45 Tactical will suit your needs.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 5:54:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2016 5:55:19 PM EDT by GSL]
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:



I am planning on having it suppressed for the majority of shooting, but I may leave the can behind and push into concealed carry for a bit.  That's part of why I was considering the HK45C, but as some previous posters pointed out, a full size is better balanced with the can.

I'll probably end up with both eventually, but that won't be for a while so the big question is: which to get first?

Decisions, decisions.
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By GSL:
Will this just be a range toy?They can be found in the wild but you'd have success ordering online at some GS that specializes in HK's. The HK45C is the Mk24 Mod 0.



I am planning on having it suppressed for the majority of shooting, but I may leave the can behind and push into concealed carry for a bit.  That's part of why I was considering the HK45C, but as some previous posters pointed out, a full size is better balanced with the can.

I'll probably end up with both eventually, but that won't be for a while so the big question is: which to get first?

Decisions, decisions.
If you already have a carry gun, I'd say get the USP Tactical first. If not, get the 45C. FYI, I have no experience with the HK45 or HK45C, but I do own a USP45 with Tactical sights. It's a laser.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 5:57:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2016 5:59:19 PM EDT by orpheus762x51]
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Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:

<snip>

View Quote


Thanks for taking the time to lay all of that out!

If I had to convert a standard USP, or wanted night sights in the event the USP Tactical doesn't come with them (forgive my ignorance), would these be the ones to get?


http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/USP-Tactical-Night-Sight-Fully-Adjustable-p1721.htm


ETA:  Thanks to everyone for the input.  I'll stop by the rental range and see which one shoots best, definitely leaning towards the tac USP in light of the comments here.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 6:01:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:


Thanks for taking the time to lay all of that out!

If I had to convert a standard USP, or wanted night sights in the event the USP Tactical doesn't come with them (forgive my ignorance), would these be the ones to get?


http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/USP-Tactical-Night-Sight-Fully-Adjustable-p1721.htm


ETA:  Thanks to everyone for the input.  I'll stop by the rental range and see which one shoots best, definitely leaning towards the tac USP in light of the comments here.
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:

<snip>



Thanks for taking the time to lay all of that out!

If I had to convert a standard USP, or wanted night sights in the event the USP Tactical doesn't come with them (forgive my ignorance), would these be the ones to get?


http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/USP-Tactical-Night-Sight-Fully-Adjustable-p1721.htm


ETA:  Thanks to everyone for the input.  I'll stop by the rental range and see which one shoots best, definitely leaning towards the tac USP in light of the comments here.
Yes.


Link Posted: 2/3/2016 6:10:24 PM EDT
I have seen those sights installed on a USP Tac before in place of the regular sights and if I remember right they do still clear most cans. I think Mepros are the HK factory supplier.

As for converting a standard USP into a Tac keep in mind that HK has said that the USP45 Tac has a different recoil spring in it than the regular USP45 "for suppressor use" (has different part numbers to boot). I have never seen a proper explanation of what or why this is. Also by the time you buy the barrel and the sights you will probably already be at or around Tac pricing anyway, and you will gain the match trigger of the Tac.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 8:07:38 PM EDT
The host for my Octane is a HK45T.  I agree than a large suppressor feels more natural with a full size gun.

Don't replace the sights until you try shooting with stock sights first.  I have have not found the need to replace mine for suppressor use.

Much has been said comparing the 45T, USP and MK23.  Each has advantages and disadvantages.  Should you have medium sized hands like me, the HK45 with its slimmer profile will be a better fit.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 8:16:13 PM EDT
Thanks for the info, JsARCLIGHT.

The tactical USP definitely has my interest, but I'm still going to plan a trip to give them all a little test drive.
Link Posted: 2/3/2016 9:08:31 PM EDT
All good ,just pick the one or more that you like......


Link Posted: 2/5/2016 6:43:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2016 6:44:58 PM EDT by orpheus762x51]
Well, I was leaning toward the USP, but I took a trip to my local shop and got a chance to handle and shoot both of them, suppressed and unsuppressed, and I decided on the HK45.

To my surprise, the finger grooves weren't as bad as I initially thought, and after running a couple mags through it, it seemed more comfortable than shooting the USP.

The sights aren't super tall, but they get up high enough to where the can isn't obscuring my target.

I even got to run my Octane that's in jail on the demo guns, so I know exactly what I'm up for.

They ordered me a HK45 Tactical with an FDE frame.  I should have it in next week.

Thanks to everyone for the input.
Link Posted: 2/5/2016 6:50:00 PM EDT
Nice! Range report for us if you don't mind.
Link Posted: 2/5/2016 7:34:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2016 7:35:05 PM EDT by orpheus762x51]
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Originally Posted By GSL:
Nice! Range report for us if you don't mind.
View Quote



I wish I had taken a picture of the target, I'll be sure to give a detailed report when it comes in.  I'll go back for another supervised visit with the Octane and put a box or so of ammo through it.

Of the rounds I did fire, I had no problem hitting center mass at 15 yards.  When I tried DA, I pulled a few low and to the left.  Probably something I just need to get used to.  That first time going from DA to SA threw me off a little, but once I got the hang of it I was able to walk it back in.

The sights on the HK45 don't stick up above the top of the can,but they sit just high enough so that the can wasn't obscuring my target.

I'll definitely report back with pics in a week or two.


ETA :   while I was at the shop, I confirmed that a SureFire X300U DOES NOT fit on a HK45 Compact.
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 6:33:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:



I wish I had taken a picture of the target, I'll be sure to give a detailed report when it comes in.  I'll go back for another supervised visit with the Octane and put a box or so of ammo through it.

Of the rounds I did fire, I had no problem hitting center mass at 15 yards.  When I tried DA, I pulled a few low and to the left.  Probably something I just need to get used to.  That first time going from DA to SA threw me off a little, but once I got the hang of it I was able to walk it back in.

The sights on the HK45 don't stick up above the top of the can,but they sit just high enough so that the can wasn't obscuring my target.

I'll definitely report back with pics in a week or two.


ETA :   while I was at the shop, I confirmed that a SureFire X300U DOES NOT fit on a HK45 Compact.
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By GSL:
Nice! Range report for us if you don't mind.



I wish I had taken a picture of the target, I'll be sure to give a detailed report when it comes in.  I'll go back for another supervised visit with the Octane and put a box or so of ammo through it.

Of the rounds I did fire, I had no problem hitting center mass at 15 yards.  When I tried DA, I pulled a few low and to the left.  Probably something I just need to get used to.  That first time going from DA to SA threw me off a little, but once I got the hang of it I was able to walk it back in.

The sights on the HK45 don't stick up above the top of the can,but they sit just high enough so that the can wasn't obscuring my target.

I'll definitely report back with pics in a week or two.


ETA :   while I was at the shop, I confirmed that a SureFire X300U DOES NOT fit on a HK45 Compact.


It does with some mods, there is a thread about it floating around the internet. Most people end up with the Viridian X5L or C5L since they fit without modification. I think a Streamlight model does too.

Also, too late now I guess, but the USP Tactical sights do clear an Octane.
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 12:36:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By stagepaint:


It does with some mods, there is a thread about it floating around the internet. Most people end up with the Viridian X5L or C5L since they fit without modification. I think a Streamlight model does too.

Also, too late now I guess, but the USP Tactical sights do clear an Octane.
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Originally Posted By stagepaint:
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By GSL:
Nice! Range report for us if you don't mind.



I wish I had taken a picture of the target, I'll be sure to give a detailed report when it comes in.  I'll go back for another supervised visit with the Octane and put a box or so of ammo through it.

Of the rounds I did fire, I had no problem hitting center mass at 15 yards.  When I tried DA, I pulled a few low and to the left.  Probably something I just need to get used to.  That first time going from DA to SA threw me off a little, but once I got the hang of it I was able to walk it back in.

The sights on the HK45 don't stick up above the top of the can,but they sit just high enough so that the can wasn't obscuring my target.

I'll definitely report back with pics in a week or two.


ETA :   while I was at the shop, I confirmed that a SureFire X300U DOES NOT fit on a HK45 Compact.


It does with some mods, there is a thread about it floating around the internet. Most people end up with the Viridian X5L or C5L since they fit without modification. I think a Streamlight model does too.

Also, too late now I guess, but the USP Tactical sights do clear an Octane.


I'm the guy that made the x300 mod.  It's not hard and works very well.  There is a thread here with a link but if you Google SFx300 HK45c modification there is a link to my post on m4carbine that lays the whole thing out.
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 1:07:08 PM EDT
I see now.  Thanks.

I should have clarified that there's no way it would work on the 45C without modification.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 11:28:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 11:31:22 PM EDT by orpheus762x51]

RANGE REPORT:



First off, it took a little bit longer to get in because my FFL informed me that HK is no longer producing HK45s in colors (FDE/OD) anymore.  There are a lot of them out there, just they aren't making any new ones.  It looks like it's going to be black only from here on out.

Unfortunately, I didn't have the presence of mind to snap some pictures at the range, but I'll give everyone a quick run down.

The sights preformed well with the Octane 45.  As stated before, the sights don't clear the can, but they aren't buried in it either.  They come right up to the edge of the silhouette of the can, thus allowing for a sight picture that works.  I don't feel like I'm "shooting through the can" if that makes sense.  I may opt for taller sights in the future if I ever encounter a scenario in which it presents a problem, but I went through 100 rounds on day one, 70+ suppressed, and didn't see any issues.

As far as the performance of the gun itself, it was an absolute pleasure.  The single action trigger has a nice, clean break, with a positive reset.  It feels different from the Kimber Warrior I used to have, but not bad by any stretch of the imagination, just different.  The pull is slightly heavier, but nice and smooth with a predictably clean break.  The double action is heavy, but also very smooth.  I'm admittedly not used to a double action trigger pull, but it struck me as smoother than striker fired triggers I've handled in the past.

The ergonomics are phenomenal.  The grip angle is perfect, and the profile contours like it was made for my palm.  This is the first handgun I've owned with an undercut trigger guard, and after a couple magazines, I don't see how I ever got along without it.  The Safety/Decocker works intuitively, and the magazine release is great.  It took some getting used to at first, but the big paddle on the side of the trigger guard was easy to find every time after that, and made quick magazine changes a breeze.

When it came to accuracy, I was again blown away at the capabilities of this pistol.  I was putting dozens of rounds inside a ~4" circle at 10 yards.  I probably could have done a little better, but I was just blasting and having fun.  Needless to say, the HK45 can shoot.

I brought a buddy with me who had yet to be initiated in suppressed shooting.  He has a P30 that he let me shoot earlier, and was one of the driving reasons why I came to consider HK.  I handed him the HK45 equipped with the Octane and he had a new perspective from that moment on.  He later told me "man, you shouldn't have let me do that.  You're gonna cost me some money!".

All in all, it was a very productive day and I am immensely satisfied with my purchase.  I look forward to future HK acquisitions.




ETA:  Thanks to everyone for the feedback and info.  Since this is my first foray into HK territory, the information going in definitely helped me make an informed purchase.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 11:32:47 PM EDT
I'm glad you got a very positive experience.

I was completely sold after my first as well, the USP45.

Your post makes me ponder if I should give the HK45 another try.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 11:39:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GSL:
I'm glad you got a very positive experience.

I was completely sold after my first as well, the USP45.

Your post makes me ponder if I should give the HK45 another try.
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Personal preference and priorities on features (such as the pic rail vs. "universal" rail) definitely play a large part in it.

I can say, having the memory fresh in my brain of firing the HK45 and USP 45 side by side, the HK45 won in the ergonomic category for me.  It wasn't by much, but it was enough to make the decision clear for me.

The USP just felt a little bit more cumbersome in the hand, but everyone's hands are a little different, so you really have to try it out before making a decision.  I definitely wouldn't rule out the USP from a future purchase, but I couldn't see using it as a CCW.  I am fortunate to live near a range that has a pretty wide selection of rentals, that really helps.
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