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Posted: 12/19/2002 3:03:57 PM EST
I am in the market for a new handgun, but my budget is limited to about 300-350. I have been hearing good things about the newly manufactured Llama .45 ACP series that is currently being offered. I have heard that they have gotten away from all the cast parts and that quality has improved dramaticaly since the 70's and 80's when these guns where known as "junk guns".

http://www.bersa-llama.com/cat_maxi45.html

My local gun store has the full sized Max-I .45 ACP available for $269.99.

Any input here would be greatly appriciated since I wish to make a purchase as soon as possible.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 3:29:45 PM EST
I would try to save a little more and get something a little more compatable with the standard aftermarket parts offerings.
Say for example, you had a Springfield and broke a part, any standard 1911 part should work, whereas the Llama is most likely unique to itself. Just my thoughts, having HAD Llamas in the past.
Your price range is close to a used SA and I would even take an Auto-Ordinance over the Llama.
Even if you managed to get a good one, it's still nearly worthless at trade in time.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:50:37 PM EST
I recently picked up a Llama Max-I 45 L/F that was made in June of '01. The gun is pretty well made for the price tag. I haven't had any FTF or jams with FMJ rounds at the range, shot a few Golden Sabres and it fed fine. I'm using Wilson Combat Stainless mags now, but it fed great with a cheap colt copy and a Llama mag. I have replaced the mag release and had to spend some serious time with the dremel to get it right.
I carry it when I'm hunting and that's about all. This was my first .45 and I picked it up used for $200.00 in mint condition with all the original paperwork and box. I had no ideas of buying one, but couldn't pass it up at a gun show. It's become a good "working" gun when I'm in the woods, and I certainly don't question it's reliability.

BTW...my boss has an older Llama that is very picky about mags and ammo...it stays home on the weekend.

The Springfield does look nice...

Good luck.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 7:33:32 AM EST
For $300-350, I would not even consider a Llama, simply because they are not compatible with "real" 1911's. If it doesn't work, most of the same fixes apply as for the 1911, but you are stuck using Llama's parts, and it isn't worth paying a gunsmith to do much with one.

I would much rather have a Rock Island, Argentine Sistema, Auto Ordnance, or even Charles Daly. At least the inferior parts on these can be easily replaced.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 5:36:00 AM EST
New Ruger P-90 goes for about that much. Way better than a Llama.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 7:56:35 AM EST
damn, I didn't even think about Rugers. Thanks man. I am gonna be on the look out for those.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 8:29:53 AM EST
Llama's are junk.
If you get one for self defence, learn to throw it like a tomahawk....becasue you can't expect it to go bang everytime !

If you shop around, you can find a used Norinco for about $300, I hate to admit it, but they make a good 1911A1.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 12:09:09 PM EST
Just out of curiosity. How many of you here that disslike the Llama have actually owned one, or fired one? The only person that has posted that has owned one, likes his and says he has had no problems.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 2:59:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By confederatemummy:
Just out of curiosity. How many of you here that disslike the Llama have actually owned one, or fired one? The only person that has posted that has owned one, likes his and says he has had no problems.



That's a fair question.
I've never owned one, but I've had 2 guys ask me to work on them because they were having problems with them.
I was not impressed with either one.
I'll admit, I haven't looked at one recently.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 9:29:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By confederatemummy:
Just out of curiosity. How many of you here that disslike the Llama have actually owned one, or fired one? The only person that has posted that has owned one, likes his and says he has had no problems.



I owned one years ago, before I knew any better. I got it in a trade and assumed it was a real 1911. It worked all right. The accuracy was unremarkable. My first clue that something was amiss was when I tried to find a set of replacement grip stocks to replace the chipped originals. After I figured out what was what, it got traded off and I never regretted it.

It probably would have been OK if I had been the type to keep my one gun forever and never mess with it. Unfortunately I like to tinker, and the Llama isn't as conducive to that as a 1911.

They are mediocre guns that mostly work fine, like the Stars and Astras (of which I have owned several). My main complaint is that parts aren't very common. The good news is that the Llamas are close enough to the 1911 that most of its problems can be resolved similarly.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 9:50:12 PM EST
Screw it. Mabye I should just sell my car and buy an HK socom MK-23 for 2 grand. Then I would'nt have to second guess if I was getting a good gun or not. :))
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 1:22:16 AM EST
Can't you find a Springfield milspec for under $400 sometimes? i would shop around for one of those or buy a higher grade 1911 used.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 2:22:19 AM EST
If you want a good .45 without spending your entire paycheck on it, I will second the Ruger P-90 and add the Ruger P-97 as well. Both are excellent, accurate and utterly reliable as long as they are kept reasonably clean. The P-97 is slightly more compact, a tad lighter and many report it feels better in the hands. Both are dirt cheap for a quality .45 ACP.

FWIW, I have bought two Llama's, both from the 1980's most likely (think they were still imported by Stoeger) and both were the same......crap. They seemed reliable enough with ball ammo but both had the same flaw.....at 7 yards both would shoot about 3 feet under! That's no exaggeration either. These were the most inaccurate pistols I ever saw. I thought the first one might have just been a lemon, but when a second performed the same, I swore then and there I would never own another Llama.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 1:35:47 PM EST
confederatemummy

As a follow up to my success with my Llama: It is what it is...a cheap .45. It depends on what you want to do with your new pistol. Personally, I like to pick up a new toy, whenever funds allow, when I go to a gun show. If I don't like it I sell it. BTW I've been tormenting for six moths on a new carry gun...and I know I would not want to be disappointed after doing all the research and comparisons. Anyway, I'll be keeping my Llama, but probably wouldn't buy another unless it was a smoking deal. It's a .45 that shoots, and I don't feel bad about it getting scuffed up. If your looking for a gun you can get attached to and have some pride in...it's definitely not the Llama.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 1:43:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By confederatemummy:
Just out of curiosity. How many of you here that disslike the Llama have actually owned one, or fired one? The only person that has posted that has owned one, likes his and says he has had no problems.



A friend has a Llama FS .45 and a Micro-Max .380. They are both huge pieces of junk. I was able to shoot and ridicule them both.
The safety on the FS does not function.
Both of them are nearly impossible to strip apart and re-assemble and the tolerances are noticeably loose.

Since he often buys crap, when it comes time to hunt he borrows one of my Springfields or another friend's P220.

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