Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 1/21/2013 4:19:41 PM EDT
I have an ongoing fascination with the 10mm cartridge. I have never owned one, nor have I had the chance to fire one. A 10mm handgun has always been on my wishlist but never purchased due to the price and availability of factory ammo and maybe to an even lesser extent, the lack of options in 10mm chambered handguns. However, as of last fall I am now set up to reload my own ammo and this brings the 10mm back to the forefront of my curiosity once again.

Being a dyed in the wool 1911 fan, my first thought is to purchase a 10mm 1911. Yet time and time again I read about how the 1911 just can't handle good full power loads without a real possibility of failure. Many sources say the factory 10mm 1911's have had numerous problems with cracked slides or even frames. Lack of chamber support unless using a ramped barrel and so on. I have seen people here ask about building a 10mm 1911 and folks warn them that without proper mainspring rates and square firing pin stops and forged slide stops that the gun just won't hold up. And further more even with all the proper equipment, it may still not hold up. Others recommend to not shoot full power loads in a 1911 10mm.

The answer that I hear most often is to forget the 1911 altogether and find a nice used Smith and Wesson 1006 (or any other 3rd gen s&w 10mm. e.g. 1066) People often tout these Smith and Wessons as being built like a tank and able to withstand an onslaught of full power nuclear 10mm loads with nary a hiccup and little complaint. I have never fired a 3rd gen Smith let alone handle one. Nobody I know personally has one that I can shoot or even just look at. So I turn to the internet for pics and reviews of the gun to try and get an understanding as to why the Smith handles the load so well. I don't get it? It seems the Smith is very similar in design and construction the original 1911 so what makes this design so much stronger? Is it hype? Is the Smith the very best option? The strongest built 10mm? What makes it so superior?
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 4:21:02 PM EDT
imo, there are only 2 10mms worth shooting/owning: SW 1006, and Glock (29/20)
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 4:40:09 PM EDT
If only there were more Bren mags.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 5:00:40 PM EDT
Set up correctly, a 1911 works fine with the 10mm Auto. Add recoil spring in the 20-22 pound range, cut out the slide stop notch, and install an oversized firing pin stop. I would also recommend Wolff +10% mag springs as slide velocity can be high and this will help ensure the next round is popped up into position before the slide starts going back into battery.

Link Posted: 1/21/2013 5:12:14 PM EDT
Visually, the SW 1006 may look similar to a 1911, but they are different beasts.

The SW 1006 is made out of American forged Stainless Steel. It is very solidly built and you can tell by just a cursory inspection of the guns internal rails, fittings and overall appearance. I'd say the 1006 is 15% more beefier than say a Colt Delta Elite, just in terms of slide thickness, chamber area thickness, and overall size. Its also a traditional double action handgun with the decocker/safety slide mounted vs the single action on the 1911 design with the grip safety and thumb safety frame mounted. The 1006 also has a magazine disconnector safety (which is a waste of time IMO).

I've had a SW 1006 for some years now, I've hunted with it and taken deer. I reload and like that its able to shoot hard cast lead bullets with no modifications. I have had 1911's, still do, all in .45acp so take that for what its worth.

I also own a Glock 20 (gen 3). Another great 10mm, but an entirely different approach to the cartridge. The Glock 20 is more modern, but requires some work to get it to where the SW1006 comes out of the box. Mainly a stronger spring and a after market barrel for fuller chamber support and traditional rifling for lead bullets.

The SW 1006 is perfect for the guy that wants just one 10mm handgun and it won't be his only handgun/primary means of self defense.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 5:16:18 PM EDT
I've got a 1006, and I love it. Bought it in 80s when it first came out. If you want to have some fun put some Cor-Bon 180s in it, If you reload the emptys will end up about 20ft behind your right shoulder.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 5:50:33 PM EDT
First let me start with this:


Anyway the 1006 is a good gun although I'd almost get the glock(prefer the sf version which wasn't out when I got my 20fs). They both would cost about the same and the glock would be new with more access to parts and mags. One of my friends liked the 20 so much he went and bought the 29. A few times a year with take all 5 10mm guns out for some destruction of old hard drives(good way to securely erase drives for clients).

I have to say the delta elite isn't bad but out of them it is my least favorite. That 610 revolver is great as well. Hella accurate and it is huge and handles the recoil well.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 6:57:14 PM EDT
OP, I'm a new convert to the 10mm round. I settled on a G20SF but I was looking for something lighter and with a greater capacity than a 4" stainless 357 to carry into the great outdoors. The 1006, 1911s and the 610 are all pistols that I lust for and hope to own but putting aside sex appeal, the G20 has a lot going for it.
- Initial low cost and factory support parts, mags etc.
- Easily coverted to 22lr and 40 S&W
- Abundant after market support and a platform that can be worked on by somebody at their kitchen table.
- Reliable, low weight amd reasonably accurate.

I'm not a glock fanboy and look at my G20SF as a 1/2 ton work truck. The 1076 and especially the 1911s as sports and luxury cars..... I do plan on owning an example of onedown the road.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 8:46:59 PM EDT
And I will start with this:

For a one and only 10mm, get a Glock. They will handle any sane load, don't go over max in the manuals and they will be fine. Trouble comes when people try to make .41 Mags out of tens. Nothing wrong with the S&W 3rd gen 10 mils, but they're not really anything special. Like anything we can't easily get anymore, out comes the rose colored glasses. They are built like tanks, with all the pros and cons that come with that. I like my 1076, but in reality, it does nothing the G20 can't, it's just different.
And a 1911 stock will run 10mm fine, and it doesn't take a lot of work or $ to tailor it to the round.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 8:59:33 PM EDT
If it's the same frame as the 4506 it's about the most uncomfortable grip handgun I have ever handled. You need big hands and lone fingers.
Link Posted: 1/22/2013 12:42:08 AM EDT
Bought a Glock 20 about 10 years ago, a 1006 about 2 years ago, a 21sf and 4506 last year. They're completely different other than caliber: materials, grip, dimensions, weight, trigger operation, controls, single vs double-stack. I no longer own any Glocks, because I shot the S&Ws better than I ever did the Glocks.

There is no "correct" answer, they're all fine pistols. What's best for you may be different than it is for me.
Link Posted: 1/22/2013 12:48:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ccosby:

Anyway the 1006 is a good gun although I'd almost get the glock(prefer the sf version which wasn't out when I got my 20fs). They both would cost about the same and the glock would be new with more access to parts and mags. One of my friends liked the 20 so much he went and bought the 29. A few times a year with take all 5 10mm guns out for some destruction of old hard drives(good way to securely erase drives for clients).

I have to say the delta elite isn't bad but out of them it is my least favorite. That 610 revolver is great as well. Hella accurate and it is huge and handles the recoil well.

I haven't seen a S&W 10mm pistol for sale anywhere, under $700, for a few years now - never mind under $600. Not that it can't happen, but it'd be snapped up in about 0.003 seconds
Link Posted: 1/22/2013 3:40:42 AM EDT
I have several 10mm guns: a 1006, a Glock 20, a Colt Delta Elite set up years ago as a comp gun, and a 610. The Glock is good, but the grip feels like a 2x4 to me. After having the grip trimmed by Robar it is better, but still not nearly as good as a 1911. The Delta Elite is pretty good with a 24 lb. recoil spring, but it currently is setup as a comp gun with a light spring and hasn’t been used in many years. The 1006 is a tough, rugged, accurate gun. Mine works fine. The 610 works great, and I am a revo guy who also really likes 625s.
Link Posted: 1/22/2013 4:49:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2013 3:48:26 PM EDT by gmtmaster]
1006 is one of my favorites
Link Posted: 1/22/2013 6:48:34 AM EDT
I have a G20sf and like it fine.

I have a 6" LW barrel, capture SS guide rod and heavier spring (22# I believe) and some trigger work that is a 3.5# trigger bar and a couple of changed springs that I don't remember.

It shoots very well but pinches my trigger finger while firing. I have plans to lower the trigger guard right around the trigger to alleviate it since other than that the gun is extremely accurate and handles hot loads with no issues.

I reload and the aftermarket barrel has quite a bit more case head support so I don't get Glock smiles on the brass when shooting max loads.

I have given it more than a passing thought to do some 3Gun shooting for fun and would use this gun with a .40 barrel in it since I don't own any other full size handgun other than a 1911 .45. I think it would be quite good with soft 40 loads for 3gun.

You can get Pearce mag extensions that add 2 rounds so you have 17+1 capacity. I have one but the stock mag spring needs to be replaced with a stiffer one for it to be 100% reliable. So I don't use that mag when carrying the gun in the field.

I carry it as my field gun when hunting.

I owned a 1006 years ago and stupidly sold it. Man do I wish I had kept it cause it was a very well built tank.
Link Posted: 1/22/2013 7:26:47 AM EDT
Wow, I see 1076s going for $900 on Gunbroker. They couldn't give these things away just a few years back. Wonder if it's panic-related?

I think the 1911 is a pretty good platform for the 10mm simply because of the tremendous array of aftermarket parts, springs, etc. It's easy to tune it to exactly the load you have. Have a .40 barrel fit for those days when you're feeling a bit parsimonious or shooting out of your boat -- I hate to lose 10mm brass.
Link Posted: 1/22/2013 7:29:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2013 7:30:04 AM EDT by Ross]
I have a 1006, 1066, and a 1076. You used to be able to find them at a pretty decent price, because they were hard to sell. They've lately become cult guns and are now hard to find.

I had a Colt DE. Set-up correctly and the 1911 type can work fine, but you need to set it up right.

IMO the Glock is the no-brainer. It really has the combination of things that make it the one to get. New, hi-cap, logistically supportable, they work, and they run well. I don't have one yet, because I'm not a big Glock fan and I've always managed to find something else to buy. Even though I'm not a big Glock fan, I'd go with a 10mm Glock in a heartbeat if I could only have one 10mm and it had to do just about everything a pistol needs to do.

I have a 5" 610, but it's in .38-40. Yeah...weird, I know. I'd definately jump on a 610 in 10mm. Finding one the same time I have money is the biggest obstable.
Link Posted: 1/22/2013 7:42:57 AM EDT
It's been more than a few years ago since I shot a friend's 1006, but I'll give my impressions.

It's a BIG, HEAVY gun! It's pretty much a big chunk of solid stainless steel and feels it. I have big hands (I am able to comfortably hold and shoot an old, 2nd Gen pre-SF Glock 21) so the 1006 felt very good to me. The gun had the curved back strap and fit me very well. The DA trigger was pretty good, SA was great and it was accurate as all get out. My friend held back some old, full power Norma 10mm ammo for me to shoot and, while it was HOT, the gun handled it very well. Comfortable to shoot and, while my follow up shots weren't anywhere near what they were with the 9mm Sig P226 I was shooting, they were good for that gun/caliber combo. I loved it so much that, every time I see him, I bug him to either sell it to me or offer him his choice of my gun safe (within reason, anyway) in trade. So far, he just gives me a shit-eating grin and changes the subject, but I keep on him about it.

I've never shot anything else in 10mm, so I can't offer an opinion about them. I have heard bad things about 1911 style guns in 10mm with full power, nuclear grade ammo and longevity, but have never owned one, shot one or experienced it myself. I can also say that, again having never shot one, I have checked out older Glock 20s, older as in 2nd Gen guns. Case head support was very poor and the chamber was REALLY hogged out at the feed ramp. It was hogged out enough that I'd hesitate to shoot factory 10mm ammo, let alone the full power, nuclear grade ammo. I understand case head support has been improved, just as it has been improved in the .40 Glock guns, but can't testify to this myself. If you use aftermarket barrels, case head support is a moot point. I've always wanted a 10mm, but haven't bought a Glock because I just can't see buying a $600.00 gun, then having to buy another $200.00 barrel to shoot the good ammo. If you're not able to shoot the full power, nuclear grade ammo, what's the point in having a 10mm?

Bub75
Link Posted: 1/24/2013 9:22:05 AM EDT
I too have/had a passion for 10mm as well, but it's not the same as the early days...
Back in the late 80's thru early 90's, during the real factory 10mm ammo (NORMA full power nuclear loads) I owned a S&W 1006 and a first early version of the Glock 10mm. Unfortunately I had a very problematic individual 1006 that malfunctioned every way possible, and made multiple trips to S&W to be fixed, and they finally offered me a refund or new gun, I took the refund and a bit of a loss for shipping. I took that money and bought a Glock 10mm, which was a mistake (at the time) because the early grip was too big for my hand (my fault for buying anyway) and recoil from full house Norma ammo was not manageable for follow up shots, and just uncomfortable shooting. I sold that off and concentrated on Coonan .357 mag pistols..

So a decade and a half later (still owning a few boxes of Norma 10mm) I want to get back itno the 10mm. After a ton of research and looking for what I want in a pistol I realized that the S&W 1006 was a great gun for it, and my first one was just a bad one, but I also really wanted a 1911 style. I concentrated on the Colt Deltas, and the SA Omegas, which both had older reputations (early models, Norma power loads) of being breakage prone. That said, I realized later models of these pistols had mostly been corrected, and that unless you handload, most (mainstream factory) companies sell 10mm loads not much stronger (if any) than stronger .40 s&w loads.

Thus I found this later model SA OMEGA below, and it handled my full house Normas with no problems. The new problem was after running out of the nuclear ammo, watered down factory loads can cause FTEs as they do not generate enough pressure/energy to unlock the linlkess system and compress the stock recoil spring enough to cycle properly. I have had a second spring of lower poundage handle lighter current factory loads, and it's worked out fine. So I go between high dollar ammo like Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, Georgia Arms when I can afford it. Otherwise I shoot the weaker Std factory stuff as I pick it up.

For those who will undoubtedly jump in with the short comings and reputation of 'early production' OMEGAs breaking or even the single extractor SA linkless model, as with many models, they did get improved, and any gun will take a beating from a large diet of full house loads. The OMEGAs biggest weakness was the early model unsupported (unbridged) recoil rod that broke under stress of such ammo back in the day. That was addressed and fixed, and from what I've experienced (my own and a friends OMEGA) and heard directly from SA was that the updated (last few production runs) OMEGA's had improved/upgraded recoil rods in the area that was prone to breakage.

This OMEGA of mine below was shipped from SA in one of the last two shipments before they quit making them. It was a legal/patent issue between Peters Stahl and S/A. Supposedly mine (so I was told anyway) has all the bugs worked out that plagued earlier models/versions. It's been very reliable, durable, and more accurate than any out of the box and modified pistols I have ever owned. I have owned two of them (sold one as I needed cash a few years back) and would buy another if it had the upgraded guide rod. (see 4th pic)

Good luck which ever platform you decide!.










Top Top