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Posted: 10/2/2007 11:31:13 AM EST
Are they the best buy amoung custom builders? Is their service any good? I've heard
a few complaints about service which concerns me. Thinking of making purchase.
Link Posted: 10/2/2007 11:36:37 AM EST
If I were to buy a semi custom tomorrow, it would be a LB TRS.
Link Posted: 10/2/2007 11:40:12 AM EST
I was considering the custom carry or concept 6 but very concerned about service.
Link Posted: 10/2/2007 1:14:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By war-wagon:
I was considering the custom carry or concept 6 but very concerned about service.


I bought a Thunder Ranch Special last year. It shot about 3" high at 25 yards out of the box. I sent it back with a note explaining the problem and had the gun (with a taller front sight installed) back in a few weeks. The note in with the gun said it had been test fired by Les to confirm zero.

That's the only dealings I've had with LB as far as repair/warranty work. I have corresponded a couple times via email and I've always gotten quick responses.
Link Posted: 10/2/2007 1:37:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2007 2:02:25 PM EST
For the price, I would go with an RRA or Wilson.
Link Posted: 10/2/2007 4:39:20 PM EST
I own two TRSs and have nothing but good to say about them and Baer's customer service. On the occasion I have had a question(several times) or a problem(once), Brenda or Les himself were very helpful.
Link Posted: 10/2/2007 5:38:15 PM EST
Baer's are great guns. Have a TRS myself (bought off GB)
They shoot like lasers.
Only gripe is that they are ridiculously tight.
Broke my bushing wrench the first time I took it apart.
If you're looking for one, I recommend surfin' the sites.
You can find good deals on them from time to time.
YMMV
Link Posted: 10/2/2007 7:00:57 PM EST
of the semi customs, LB tends to be the cheaper of the bunch...usually by a few hundred bucks.

I own/carry a LB Stinger, and it's a fantastic little gun....it doesn't do anything better or worse than a comparable Wilson/Nighthawk/RRA/Brown, but it was less expensive and has the same snob appeal.
Link Posted: 10/3/2007 2:58:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2007 2:58:41 AM EST by 9secondsflat]
i own two les baer .45's both are premier 11, the first has about 1000 rounds down the tube, the other over 10,000 rounds shot. both guns function flawlessly, feed any and all ammo (once broken in 300-500 rounds) they are as tight today as when new...frame to slide is rock solid and has zero play. are they the "prettiest" bling bling shit...probably not...not for 1300 bucks for a premier 11, do they shoot.....with a 220 gr waddcutter it is a ragged hole at 60 feet off hand. neither of mine are the 1.5 inch 50 yard guns. that being said both are far more accurate than ANY person who has ever shot the guns. you can spend 3000-4000 bucks for a custom 45. will it be more accurate?????? i doubt it, will it function any better??? no, will it get more oooos and ahhhhs at the range...maybe, maybe not. keep this in mind there is zero difference in accuracy between les baer .45's regardless if you spend 1300 or 3000. ***unless you get the 1.5 " 50 yard guarentee.


Link Posted: 10/3/2007 11:22:24 AM EST
Gun fighter 45,

Was your problem a serious or minor? I know a person who had a cracked frame & Baer charged him $300.00 for the frame. If Baer fitted the new one it was $800.00 total.
Purchasing this grade of pistol I would expect better service. He admitted he fired
reloads. Most match shooters reload.
Link Posted: 10/3/2007 12:09:16 PM EST
I have over 8,000 rounds on a TRS...it came to me used. Other than finish wear and recoil springs, no issues at all. It runs like a freight train and shoots straight and every time I pull the trigger, boringly reliable.
Link Posted: 10/3/2007 1:05:43 PM EST
My 1.5"@50yd Premier II has been terrific. It's for sale now but it's not because of performance or service problems. I called Les himself twice. Once with a break in question and once about ammo recommendations. Being able to talk with him means something. For the break in question, he said if I'm unhappy for any reason, just send it in.

Also, it's seriously accurate. It came with a 10 shot target (confirmed the count with Les) that measures 1.26" at 50yds. No question that those guys know what they're doing. I don't hesitate to recommend them. Check out m1911.org for some real Baer fans to see what they've experienced.
Link Posted: 10/3/2007 3:10:34 PM EST
I've got three Baer's. Two I got used, a PII and a Custom Carry, and the third I got NIB, a Concept VI. I love my Baer's, and honestly believe they are the top value in the semi custom market. I have a Wilson CQB and a Springfield Pro in addition. I have had in thousands of rounds through the three guns, one single malfunction with one of the guns when it was dirty with one of my reloads. As to service, I can't say. I've never had an issue with any of the guns. I've talked with Les at the SHOT show, and I think he's a nice guy. I thought everyone at the booth was friendly. I have enough faith in the products to recommend them though!

later,
AJ
Link Posted: 10/3/2007 4:20:40 PM EST
Just bought a used TR last month and I have never spent so much money on a gun. I am blown away with the accuracy and reliability. I would have to say go for it. I havent had any problems with it and I would love to have another more compact one. It has replaced all the rest of my guns as far as carry. Some of those other custom guns may be prettier than a LB but I could never aford some of them.
Link Posted: 10/3/2007 5:07:20 PM EST
I own 2 baers.

Only problem was owner caused and due to not enough lube towards the end of a gun class. Absolutely my fault.

I think baers break in because they smooth out as you use them, but mine pretty much worked from the get go as I recall. I guess one had some issues with hollowpoints but I think that was more me riding the slide than anything else.

I looked at some comparable 1911s made by others but overall a baer is what I wanted. It is tight and I like that. It is also not such a work of art that I am worried about using it for ccw or classes and what not.

Handle all you can and see if the baer is what you prefer.

I basically figure if I lost all my stuff in a fire I would go ahead and replace the baers and the fals and everything else would take a lot more thought since the baers and the fals are what I prefer.
Link Posted: 10/4/2007 7:35:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By war-wagon:
Gun fighter 45,

Was your problem a serious or minor? I know a person who had a cracked frame & Baer charged him $300.00 for the frame. If Baer fitted the new one it was $800.00 total.
Purchasing this grade of pistol I would expect better service. He admitted he fired
reloads. Most match shooters reload.

Mine was the most minor problem imaginable. The mainspring housing pin broke in two. The pistol still functioned perfectly(I only found it while detail cleaning). Brenda sent me new one immediately. Not bad for an 8 year old pistol.
I also had a friend crack a frame after shooting numerous reloads and Les replaced it with no problems. My friend had even had it checkered by someone else as he wanted 20 lpi instead of Baer's standard 30 lpi.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 7:21:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
For the price, I would go with an RRA or Wilson.


+1 even Nighthawk....

Baer just has not impressed me.
If you want a bullseye gun they are supposed to be great
but too tight for EDC
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 7:52:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 7:53:06 AM EST by Scot45]
"If you want a bullseye gun they are supposed to be great
but too tight for EDC"

OK you are going to have to back that statement up. Please explain how it is too tight for EDC. Granted, Baers can be very tight. And I won't be buying anymore for other reasons (front serrations, finish options, etc.) but my TRS has been FLAWLESS for well over 6,000 rounds. I live in Vegas and we train alot - it has been literally ground/buried in fine sand that was like talcum powder, but yet when I went to draw and fire, it worked just fine.

Trust me, it has seen far harder use than than 90% of all CCW users would ever subject there 1911's to, yet it has always ran. I'll be the first to admit that when I bought it 4 years ago, I knew nothing about 1911's, I just thought I was buying the best. I just recently lent it out during a Jeff Gonzales class, and it went 1,300 rounds with no issues. The guy didn't even know to re-lube it until I told him to at aproximately 900 rounds. So it is too tight, yet it will go 900 rounds between lube applications? How can that be?

I'm not a Baer kool aid drinker, and won't be buying anymore as I have gone the more custom route so that I can ensure my 1911's are built exactly how I like them. But I also have a fair amount of use out of a Baer, and being tight has never once caused a problem. I think some of you get too wrapped up about the fgun being tight. If you are going to Iraq with it, or you will be wading through swamps and gumming it up with mud, yeah it may be an issue - but somebody please explain how for the average citizen who will be using it for CCW, a Baer will be "too tight".

Its almost like how the Glock guys are always telling us that 1911's are not reliable. I used to believe that even though I carried a 1911. Finally after thousands of rounds out of several 1911's with no malfunctions, I stopped listening to that garbage too.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 9:38:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 12:43:24 PM EST by texantillimdead]

Originally Posted By Scot45:
"If you want a bullseye gun they are supposed to be great
but too tight for EDC"

OK you are going to have to back that statement up. Please explain how it is too tight for EDC. Granted, Baers can be very tight. And I won't be buying anymore for other reasons (front serrations, finish options, etc.) but my TRS has been FLAWLESS for well over 6,000 rounds. I live in Vegas and we train alot - it has been literally ground/buried in fine sand that was like talcum powder, but yet when I went to draw and fire, it worked just fine.

Trust me, it has seen far harder use than than 90% of all CCW users would ever subject there 1911's to, yet it has always ran. I'll be the first to admit that when I bought it 4 years ago, I knew nothing about 1911's, I just thought I was buying the best. I just recently lent it out during a Jeff Gonzales class, and it went 1,300 rounds with no issues. The guy didn't even know to re-lube it until I told him to at aproximately 900 rounds. So it is too tight, yet it will go 900 rounds between lube applications? How can that be?

I'm not a Baer kool aid drinker, and won't be buying anymore as I have gone the more custom route so that I can ensure my 1911's are built exactly how I like them. But I also have a fair amount of use out of a Baer, and being tight has never once caused a problem. I think some of you get too wrapped up about the fgun being tight. If you are going to Iraq with it, or you will be wading through swamps and gumming it up with mud, yeah it may be an issue - but somebody please explain how for the average citizen who will be using it for CCW, a Baer will be "too tight".

Its almost like how the Glock guys are always telling us that 1911's are not reliable. I used to believe that even though I carried a 1911. Finally after thousands of rounds out of several 1911's with no malfunctions, I stopped listening to that garbage too.


I agree with everything you just said. With many beliefs, some start out as opinions, that are based upon misconceptions, that if people hear them enough times, they believe they are facts--which they then make it their belief. This is why people believe Les Baers are too tight and unreliable.

Many of these people will never own one. If a person owns one and states it is too tight, does he want to sacrifice accuracy to have a looser gun? Probably not. To make a gun extremely accurate, you need to remove play in the slide to frame fit AND the barrel to bushing fit.Removing the play, adding a nice trigger, grips that fit a person's hands, and sights that a person prefers, takes away the gun variables and leaves accuracy up to the skills of the shooter. So, if a Les Baer is a tight gun, reliable, and feels good in your hand, what more do you want in a gun?

If you don't want an extremely tight, accurate, well made pistol, you can always purchase a Rock Island, Norinco, Charles Daly, etc.

Link Posted: 10/5/2007 9:57:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By texantillimdead:

Originally Posted By Scot45:
"If you want a bullseye gun they are supposed to be great
but too tight for EDC"

OK you are going to have to back that statement up. Please explain how it is too tight for EDC. Granted, Baers can be very tight. And I won't be buying anymore for other reasons (front serrations, finish options, etc.) but my TRS has been FLAWLESS for well over 6,000 rounds. I live in Vegas and we train alot - it has been literally ground/buried in fine sand that was like talcum powder, but yet when I went to draw and fire, it worked just fine.

Trust me, it has seen far harder use than than 90% of all CCW users would ever subject there 1911's to, yet it has always ran. I'll be the first to admit that when I bought it 4 years ago, I knew nothing about 1911's, I just thought I was buying the best. I just recently lent it out during a Jeff Gonzales class, and it went 1,300 rounds with no issues. The guy didn't even know to re-lube it until I told him to at aproximately 900 rounds. So it is too tight, yet it will go 900 rounds between lube applications? How can that be?

I'm not a Baer kool aid drinker, and won't be buying anymore as I have gone the more custom route so that I can ensure my 1911's are built exactly how I like them. But I also have a fair amount of use out of a Baer, and being tight has never once caused a problem. I think some of you get too wrapped up about the fgun being tight. If you are going to Iraq with it, or you will be wading through swamps and gumming it up with mud, yeah it may be an issue - but somebody please explain how for the average citizen who will be using it for CCW, a Baer will be "too tight".

Its almost like how the Glock guys are always telling us that 1911's are not reliable. I used to believe that even though I carried a 1911. Finally after thousands of rounds out of several 1911's with no malfunctions, I stopped listening to that garbage too.


I agree with everything you just said. With many beliefs, some start out as opinions, that are based upon misconceptions, that if people hear them enough times, they believe they are facts--which they then make it their belief. This is why people believe Les Baers are too tight and unreliable.

Many of these people will never own one. If a person owns one and states it is too tight, does he want to sacrifice accuracy to have a looser gun? Probably not. To make a gun extremely accurate, you need to remove play in the slide to frame fit and the barrel to bushing fit. Removing the play, adding a nice trigger, grips that fit a person's hands, and sights that a person prefers, takes away the gun variables and leaves accuracy up to the skills of the shooter. So, if a Les Baer is a tight gun, reliable, and feels good in your hand, what more do you want in a gun?

If you don't want an extremely tight, accurate, well made pistol, you can always purchase a Rock Island, Norinco, Charles Daly, etc.



Not completely true. Slide to frame fit is not as crucial as barrel fit.

You can still have an extremely accurate, well made pistol that's NOT extremely tight.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 10:14:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Trumpet:

Originally Posted By texantillimdead:

I agree with everything you just said. With many beliefs, some start out as opinions, that are based upon misconceptions, that if people hear them enough times, they believe they are facts--which they then make it their belief. This is why people believe Les Baers are too tight and unreliable.

Many of these people will never own one. If a person owns one and states it is too tight, does he want to sacrifice accuracy to have a looser gun? Probably not. To make a gun extremely accurate, you need to remove play in the slide to frame fit and the barrel to bushing fit.


Not completely true. Slide to frame fit is not as crucial as barrel fit.

You can still have an extremely accurate, well made pistol that's NOT extremely tight.


I had to savor the irony, but to be constructive, I will add a +1 to trumpet's frame fit statement. The accuracy truly depends on the barrel/bushing fit, and the slide to frame fit is tertiary.

I "believe" the slide/frame fit these days comes as a byproduct of the custom days, and a tight fit is indicative of a well made gun (and is illustrative of being well made when it cycles as reliably as a chatterbox).
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 10:40:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 10:42:09 AM EST by war-wagon]
Thanks for all the info. It appears Baer's finish isn't as good as other custom guns,
but fit & function are great. Since I'm considering a stainless model its probably not going to matter. Looks are nice but second to reliability. Any negatives on stainless?
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 11:27:58 AM EST
Quality-wise their finishes are fine, it's just that they offer only bluing, chrome, and Bearcoat (paint) in addition to stainless. If you want something else, you will have to send it to a third party and risk voiding the warranty.

Link Posted: 10/5/2007 12:38:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 12:40:12 PM EST by texantillimdead]

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:

Originally Posted By Trumpet:

Originally Posted By texantillimdead:

I agree with everything you just said. With many beliefs, some start out as opinions, that are based upon misconceptions, that if people hear them enough times, they believe they are facts--which they then make it their belief. This is why people believe Les Baers are too tight and unreliable.

Many of these people will never own one. If a person owns one and states it is too tight, does he want to sacrifice accuracy to have a looser gun? Probably not. To make a gun extremely accurate, you need to remove play in the slide to frame fit and the barrel to bushing fit.


Not completely true. Slide to frame fit is not as crucial as barrel fit.

You can still have an extremely accurate, well made pistol that's NOT extremely tight.


I had to savor the irony, but to be constructive, I will add a +1 to trumpet's frame fit statement. The accuracy truly depends on the barrel/bushing fit, and the slide to frame fit is tertiary.

I "believe" the slide/frame fit these days comes as a byproduct of the custom days, and a tight fit is indicative of a well made gun (and is illustrative of being well made when it cycles as reliably as a chatterbox).


Did either one of you read the next statement after "slide to frame fit?" I highlighted it in green so it will be easy to find. I will even do it on my original post. The fact is that if you take a gun that has zero play in the slide to frame fit AND the barrel to bushing fit, that has sights that are zeroed, it will be more accurate than one that has play in both areas. With many shooters, this will not be a noticeable difference because the gun will be more accurate than someone can shoot. This also does not mean you can't make an accurate gun that is not as tight as a Les Baer. Of course you can, it just won't be as accurate as one that has had the variables removed.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 12:55:15 PM EST
There are many variables that determine accuracy. Slide to frame fit accounts for about 5% of it according to Khunhausen. There are obviously other much more important factors.

That begs the question then, are LBs unnecessarily tight? Likely so, but I'm certainly not an authority on the matter.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 12:59:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 1:09:17 PM EST by texantillimdead]

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
There are many variables that determine accuracy. Slide to frame fit accounts for about 5% of it according to Khunhausen. There are obviously other much more important factors.

That begs the question then, are LBs unnecessarily tight? Likely so, but I'm certainly not an authority on the matter.


Of course there are other variables and factors to consider. My point is --and was--you need to remove variables of the gun so it completely depends on shooter's skills. Are these some of the factors you are talking about....(from my first post on this topic)


To make a gun extremely accurate, you need to remove play in the slide to frame fit AND the barrel to bushing fit.Removing the play, adding a nice trigger, grips that fit a person's hands, and sights that a person prefers, takes away the gun variables and leaves accuracy up to the skills of the shooter.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:13:21 PM EST
I don't know for the money they seem very nice to me. The PII is running right around $1400. You would be hard pressed to find something wit the quality parts for the same amount. They are built on the tight side but they are also as accurate as any other 1911 costing even hundreds more.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:10:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
I "believe" the slide/frame fit these days comes as a byproduct of the custom days, and a tight fit is indicative of a well made gun (and is illustrative of being well made when it cycles as reliably as a chatterbox).

I agree with that and wonder if those that tout the Baers as being too tight have had any practical experience with them, such as carry, competition, or training.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 3:47:22 AM EST
The word "best" is subjective. Les Bear, RRA, Wilson, Brown ect... all make great 1911's. But for the price, Bear is hard to beat.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 4:02:12 AM EST
I forgot to reply to the OP. For my $ the first semi-custom I will buy will be a RRA. I hear very few complaints on reliability and I am VERY pleased with the frame and slide I bought from them. They are just perfect, no machine marks, perfectly in spec.
I have heard complaints and their CS, but the reality is they have a very small pistol shop and they are busy guys. The times I talked to Mark he was very polite, professional and helpful. They also offer many options and will work with you. In fact I wanted the rear of the slide serrated, but I already bought an extractor so I sent in the extractor and they were good enough to serrate the extractor to match the slide. They also did the ejector to match, and I didn't even ask them to.
Good people, great guns IMO.

Not to mention I think a RRA with no front serrations is probably the best looking gun in existence.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 4:12:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By gunfighter45:
I agree with that and wonder if those that tout the Baers as being too tight have had any practical experience with them, such as carry, competition, or training.



I've thought this myself several times. As long as it's reliable tight is a good thing in my opinion. When new the tightness in a Baer is more the barrel to bushing fit and not the slide to frame fit as most people think. The parts do lap in very nicely after several hundred rounds.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 6:43:21 AM EST
Back on topic here. I have owned a few of all the Semi Custom 1911 except Rock River. I do have a Rock River on order and expect within the next few months. Their style is very similar to Baer, but I can choose the parts and sights that I prefer. That being said I always come back to Les Baer pistols. All of the other pistols ( Wilson. Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Springfield Custom Shop ) ran fine and were quite accurate and pleasing to the eye. I just prefer the looks and feel of Baer pistols. I love a blue or stainless pistol, and can do without a spray and bake. I'm sure the wonder finish's have their applications but none of them fit my MO. I'm quite anal with regard to maintenance of my pistols and their cleanliness. I live in the Pac NW and have yet to have a pistol rust out on me. I believe this is a Ford/Chevy/Dodge debate. At this price point you will get a fine pistol from any of the mentioned makers. In the end , for Me it is Baer.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:06:34 AM EST
Whats a good price for a new Concept V?
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