User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/9/2006 6:58:12 AM EDT
[#1]
I'm annoyed with CTC for refusing to produce them for my HK P7M8(or any HKs for that matter). I'de buy a set in a heartbeat if they made them for that gun. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2006 7:12:51 AM EDT
[#2]
None of you guys use these things?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2006 9:37:35 AM EDT
[#3]
The way I index, the laser is blocked.......
So, it is either I had to change how I index or choose not to buy them. Guess which way I went 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2006 1:39:23 PM EDT
[#4]
A quality laser is an excellent tool, but I would suggest you get some training/experience first and then consider the laser. It is an excellent alternative sighting device, but you should get the basics down first. You might decide to change guns after a little practice, or feel that other purchases will be better.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2006 1:57:35 PM EDT
[#5]
I have them on two of my Berettas and one of my 1911s and they are great IMHO. I've had them for years with zero problems. (FTR, I also have LaserMax internal lasers in two of my Glocks and in my SIG P226 & like them just as well.) As has been alluded to already they are NOT a replacement for traditional sighting and training/practice, but they are IMHO a very nice tool to have in the toolbox (esp. if you find yourself in a situation where a traditional sight picture is impractical or impossible). Think of it as a "back-up system," not your primary means of aiming. I'll forewarn you that laser-sights are generally pooh-poohed on this site by many (most?) but I have experienced their utility in the real world first-hand and have been a staunch believer in their usefulness ever since. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2006 2:01:50 PM EDT
[#6]
I think that is an important point,not just for lasers but for many other issues. Many folks here have opinions, but only a fairly small group seems to have had real world experience they can back up their opinions with. Of course, some deny the importance or applicability of the real world at all. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2006 2:05:53 PM EDT
[#7]
I have not trained with a laser but I don't care for them on handguns.
They definitely take longer for the shooter to acquire the target than point shooting (which the laser dependant shooter won't have) and I have heard it takes longer than acquiring the target via sights. I also don't like hinging all my instincts and traning on a (more) fallible piece of equipment that depends upon a battery. The only useful application I can think of is on small frame revolvers that don't & can't have night sights installed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2006 10:26:26 PM EDT
[#8]
I am not a big fan of the laser grips on firearms because I don't want to unlearn the good habits of acquiring a target.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2006 11:20:08 PM EDT
[#9]
You guys are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I disagree with the last two.
One fact that they do have correct is that lasers can fail, so they better not be your only option. Point shooting, or any other shooting for that matter, is not changed by a laser, unless you make the change in your shooting habits. Putting a laser on a target is certainly not slower than getting a sight picture, and even if it was, a laser is not going to obstruct your sights. It is probably invaluable if you are in a situation where you can't actually raise a pistol and aim(and such situations do occur). A laser is simply another tool in the box. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2006 8:01:58 AM EDT
[#10]
I completely agree with darm on this. Learn to shoot first, then get the laser. I don't use a laser because I carry the same gun I use in competition. While I don't think I need one, it certainly wouldn't be bad to have. My fiance has a laser/light on her HD/competition gun, and works great for training. It can show the shooter exactly how they are moving the gun while pressing the trigger. Because of this, her trigger pull is much better with the laser and her shots are much faster and more accurate. The problem that people on this site have with lasers (and I agree) is that some people become dependent on them. They buy the laser with their first handgun and never really learn to use the sights, so they can't use the gun effectively without it. Like darm said, learn to use the gun, make sure you want to stick with it, then buy the laser. They're not cheap if you decide you want a different gun after buying the laser. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2006 8:17:06 AM EDT
[#11]
Agreed, 100%. That is why, as strongly as I believe in their value, I always qualify my positive comments re: them not being a substitute for fundamentals. I don't think they should simply be recommended in a general, unqualified sense... but nor do I think they should be dismissed in such a manner (as happens here more often than not). 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2006 8:22:35 AM EDT
[#12]
I opt against the laser cuz if I engage a threat with my pistol, I don't want the guy laughing at me.
That... and I've never had one single firearms instructor who when asked about lasers didn't struggle to keep himself from saying "don't be stupid, you moron". You can just see it in there eyes when they tactfully explain why they don't encourage laser use to the dopey student who asks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2006 9:11:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Hmmm. Maybe your local instructors need to get out more. as there are many firearms instructors who have no trouble with the lasers at all. They were quite common at the recent American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers annual meeting, and the training segment with the lasers has been fairly popular in thta venue over the years. Of course, the fact that Jim Cirillo (who is a firearms instructor with more experience than most firearms instructors) has been the one doing the training and suggesting how important the laser can be might have something to do with that. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2006 9:42:02 AM EDT
[#14]
I have had instructors say that Lasers have their limited application. Like for the guy in front of the stack who has to reach around the Body Bunker with his handgun.
But then you only can have ONE guy with the laser. (or at least the same color of laser) Otherwise you end up with a bunch of guys wiggling the laser on the target/threat to find out which beam is theirs!  |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2006 10:05:49 AM EDT
[#15]
We see that claim made often, but almost never by anyone who has had some decent training with the laser. In fact, that is one of the drills we did in class. 10 officers were told to aim at the back of a folding chair and then asked to ID which dot was theirs. Everybody was able to say which dot was theirs without any trouble. Of course if all the dots are on the target it doesn't matter which dot is yours, either<G>! It is a pretty simple idea--if you think that your dot is off-target, don't shoot until you verify. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2006 8:16:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Also, Massad Ayoob recommends them. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2006 3:33:08 PM EDT
[#17]
I have one on my Sig P220 and it is good. I like it and the fact that at night it make targeting quick and simple. I am considering a Laser Max guide rod laser for my glock. I don't like the Laser grips that are currently made for glock.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2006 6:51:55 PM EDT
[#18]
The laser grips are great, I have them on my carry gun (Sig 229), but you should NEVER rely on them. I only have them incase I am somehow incapacitated or in an awkward position where i'm unable to use my sights in a life/death situation and need to get a shot off.
If you can have a tool which will increase your hit percentage by 300% and allow you to quickly and accurately get shots off without even having to use your sights, why on earth wouldn't you get them and use them to your advantage? A real life scenario isn't going to go down like it does at the range, you may be on the ground and have to get a shot off in a position with your offhand where it's physically impossible to use your sights, how are you going to do that without a laser? You're not unless the BG is 1 foot away. Just like carrying a gun and it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, it's better to have the CTC grips and never need them, than to need them and not have 'em. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2006 7:44:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Does anyone know someone that has had this problem or experienced it first hand? I've never heard of someone losing the ability to use their sights or to point-shoot because they installed a laser on their gun. I can see if you started our learning to aim with a laser and never learning another technique, but for someone who already knows how to aim I don't see how having a laser can hurt anything. I think having a laser on a gun is like having cruise control on your car, it's just another way to control the speed of your vehicle, but you don't have to use it. On a side note, I use the cruise control on my car all the time and I haven't forgot how to use the pedals yet. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2006 12:59:25 PM EDT
[#20]
No one's talking about an experienced shooter adding a laser, it's the people who buy their first handgun with a laser and never learn to use the sights properly. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/27/2006 1:16:34 PM EDT
[#21]
I have the CTC LM-405 on my S&W638 Airweight, and really like them, due to the "non-sights" on a J-Frame (to speak of). This gun is my BUG. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/27/2006 1:36:56 PM EDT
[#22]
I have them on my S&W J frame model 642.
On a J frame with fixed sights they are indeed a replacement for using iron sights, as the irons suck on these models. Better than nothing I suppose, but with the laser you will find out that 2" of barrel does have some accuracy potential, which would have never been discovered if you stuck with just irons. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/27/2006 1:54:02 PM EDT
[#23]
Sonofbitch! I agree with him on something! 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2006 10:23:17 PM EDT
[#24]
I think the bottom line is that if you learn to apply basic marksmanship skills with reasonable results, then buy a laser and stick it on your gun...the result is a "marksmanship aid" and that can give you warm fuzzies in a fight. On the other hand, if you buy a gun and put a laser on it right away and the only way you learn to shoot is by using that laser....it's no longer considered an "aid" it's now a crutch! Enhance your ability, but don't rely on that device. If you're just starting out with a handgun, take the couple of hundred dollars you'll spend on a laser and buy practice ammo instead! |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2006 4:07:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Oh My God, I'm going to sound like an old timer here, but I've been shooting handguns for 35 years. Been carrying for 23 years. Was lucky enough to get some formal training and have done a bit of competition shooting. What I'm going to express here is an opinion and nothing but.
I always thought a laser was a crutch for the noobs. Refused to have one on a firearm because of that old belief. A buddy of mine sold his Glock and had a crimson trace that he didn't need/want anymore. He offered to sell it to me for $100.00. I said no way do I need one of them fangdangled things. He said take it home and try it no harm no foul. Long story short: I gave him his $100.00 and ate some crow. I have trained enough with it to feel very comfortable with the feel of the grip. I even belive it might HELP a noob with his trigger control. You can watch the dot "dance" as you dry fire. I now have it on my G35 and am very comfortable and happy with it. THis is my "night-stand" gun. It also has a Surefire XD200d ounted on the rail. My CC gun does not sport one as I don't want the extra bulk, but I'm looking to installing one of the internal lasers on the G27. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
