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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/18/2003 3:35:14 PM EDT
I have a kel tec p32 that has developed a habit of setting off store alarms. The ones at the doors to catch shoplifters. It is getting to be a pain. when I enter a store I have to make sure that security see me and that I set the alarm off on the way in.

So my question is how do I demagnetize the pistol. Or is there something else I must do to cure the problem?

Thanks for any help you can give.
Link Posted: 3/20/2003 1:39:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2003 5:22:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Those things detect the white plastic tags that are put in books and clothes. Are you sure it's your gun and not some kind of tag you have missed on a jacket or something?



Gotta go with Aimless. It's not the pistol. I remember a thread on this topic. I haven't heard any other Kel Tec owner complaining...
Link Posted: 3/23/2003 8:19:09 AM EDT
Would it be funny if it was an anti-theft strip on his holster or pocket rig?

I don't mean to make light of it, since the concern is obvious and real. But I'd have to agree that it may be one of those tags somewhere.

It's a good thing those deterctors aren't magnetic. Though I usually carry an alloy gun, sometimes I do have a good piece of steel.
Link Posted: 3/25/2003 4:51:40 AM EDT
I know quite a bit about those detectors having spent several years (ugh) in retail management.

They work by detecting magnets to an extent. I've worked with three different SensorMatic alarm models (pretty much the industry standard). However, if you walk through one with a refridgerator magnet it is NOT going to go off. They pick up the little stickers which have a small strip of magnetized metal inside and a strip from one model may not be detectable by another model.

I have never once seen the alarm go off falsely by picking up cellphone, pagers, keys, etc, let alone a firearm.

The only thing that I can think of is that something either in the gun itself or possibly the holster is both the correct type of metal and has the proper magnetic field. Granted, the odds of this aren't very likely.

So what should you do? Leave the gun in the car next time and go in with an empty holster and see if the holster triggers it. My guess is that it might be the holster. If not, I would suggest looking at the springs and smaller parts within the gun as the cause.
Link Posted: 3/25/2003 9:10:26 PM EDT
Okay I was sitting and staring at the alarm system at work today pondering this problem. After much thought I believe the problem lies within the gun's spring(s). Why? Because the type of metal used in security stickers is not steel. So even if say your slide were magnetized, it would not trigger the alarm because it is not the right kind of metal. However, the metal in the stickers is very much like the metal used in a lot of springs. I'm comparing a sticker now to what's in my CZ75 and my 92FS and noting that it seems like a somewhat close match - especially in the CZ.

So, in conclusion... you more than likely have a magnetized spring, although I don't know how you would get one.
Link Posted: 4/2/2003 7:30:51 AM EDT
Check your wallet. Do you have a proximity card/ID for work or something? I have this same problem at a sporting goods store near here, but I don't go enough to really pinpoint what's causing it. I've gone in there without a gun or holster, so I know it's not that. I have a feeling that it might be my work ID.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 3:33:57 AM EDT
Someone had a purse that consistently set of the alarm at my wife's store. The solution was that one day, as a favor, they ran the woman's purse over the demagnetizer. Problem solved. Do you think that you could get away with plopping your gun down on the demagnetizer when the cashier isn't looking?
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 9:11:13 AM EDT
The first thing you should determine is what type of security system is it setting off. Does the store use the white plastic attached to clothing garments, or do they use the etched foil stickers usually found in electronics and DVD cases.

The basic idea of the tag system is that the tag has a helical antenna etched from thin aluminum bonded to a piece of paper. At the end of the antenna is a small diode or RC network that causes the tag to emit a radio signal in response to the radio signal it receives. To disarm the tag, a strong RF pulse (much stronger than the gates emit) blasts the tag and burns out the diode or RC components. Between the gates a burned out tag does not emit a signal, so the gates let it pass without an alarm.

The other kind that most people refer to as an electromagnetic tag is actually a metal wire or ribbon that has high permeability, making it easy for magnetic signals to flow through it. When it's saturated, from a magnetic perspective, it begins to look like air. Saturation occurs abruptly. When the tag goes from active to saturated, the receiver detects the change in the amount of the signal picked up from the transmitter. What is happening is the system is checking for the permeability of steel which is much lower than the metal used to make the tag. In addition, when steel goes to saturation, it tends to do so slowly, not abruptly. So the EM system uses these differences to differentiate between a still-active tagged item leaving the store and a gun in someone's pocket.

A magnetized piece of semi-hard magnetic material (basically, a weak magnet) is put up next to the active material to deactivate it. When you magnetize the semi-hard material, it saturates the tag and puts it in its inactive saturated state.

So you can take what you want from that explanation to try and determine your problem. But anytime you have two pieces of metal in close proximity (frame and slide or more likely frame and mag) they can become emitters when exposed to an electrical field, especially if they are different materials (like steel and alum or poly). If you carry a cell phone or pager that could also be the problem not your gun (my cell phone Nokia sets the alarms off once in a while).

Just my 2 cents, sorry for the long post but us engineers get carried away some times.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 9:39:29 AM EDT
It is very nice that this subject shows up, I just recieved a question about this at work today......dtarbox can you tell me what model phone you have?
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 11:01:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2003 11:07:53 AM EDT by dtarbox]
My phone is Nokia 8290, it has the internal antenna. It sets off the alarms very rarely, last time happened to be coming out of Victorias Secret this last weekend. But here in South Florida the alarms go off so often it is like a car alarm, no one pays attention.

Link to page on anti-shoplifting technology
http://www.mvc-entertainment.co.uk/eas_overview.htm
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 2:55:56 PM EDT
I bought a pair of work boots at K-Mart one evening, went to the car, and put them on to start breaking them in. My wife and I went to Wal-Mart after that and I set off the alarm. Obviously K-Mart had not deactivated the anti-theft device. The folks at Wal-Mart were cool about it and had me scan my boot at one of the registers. The only problem was getting my leg up that high, as I scanned it while wearing it.

Also, my brother works for the phone company and his ID card sets off the alarm in Wal-Mart every time he enters and exits the store.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:01:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dtarbox:
My phone is Nokia 8290, it has the internal antenna. It sets off the alarms very rarely, last time happened to be coming out of Victorias Secret this last weekend. But here in South Florida the alarms go off so often it is like a car alarm, no one pays attention.

Link to page on anti-shoplifting technology
http://www.mvc-entertainment.co.uk/eas_overview.htm



I worked with a non-linear junction detector a few years back...sounds like you're talking about the same basic principle.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:03:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 3:05:56 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Im sorry, but ig my Glock 23 or Beretta 8000 doesnt set of any alarms anywhere. Your Little KelTec isnt going to do anytthing!
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 5:43:28 PM EDT
M4 may have point. I had a pair of shoes do it also. Usually the tag is under the insole in one shoe. Its worth a look.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 6:51:23 PM EDT
Jeeze - how about some basic troubleshooting here.

Find a store where you and your normal rig sets off the alarm. Ask for the store manager - explain that you have a problem setting off the sensor in his store and that you would like to take a few minutes of his time to troubleshoot the problem to find out the answer.

1. Now head for the sensors, when they light off follow the next step

2. Exit the store, put your Swell-tec in your car. leave the holster on.

3. Go back in the store, and through the sensor on the way out. If the alarm hits, then after you clear with the store, exit the store, put your holster in your car.

4. Repeat until you find the last thing that fired off the alarm or until you are buck naked. If by chance you are buck naked, the see #5.

5. Go to the local ER and ask for a full body x-ray - the space aliens have tagged you while you were onboard the mothership and have scrambled your memory of this episode - be sure and look for needle marks around your navel (pseudo tin foil hat cocked to one side)
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 2:24:29 PM EDT
wow I cant believe this thread is still alive. I had not been to the hand gun forums, since shortly after I wrote the original post.

Any way Those that said I hade one of the tag hidden some where were correct. And yes I do feel like an ass. It was hidden in a wallet I received for Christmas last year. I thought is was the gun because it would only set off Target or Right Aid detectors.

Sorry for the very late reply. And thanks to everyone for their impute.
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