Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 3/11/2011 6:06:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 5:31:53 AM EST by Nick1971]
I have a Kimber Pro Carry 2, present from my dad, it has over 2000 rounds through it and is about 6 years old. At the Gunsite alumni shoot, October 2010, while my dad was shooting the Kimber it started to experience fail to feed problems that seemed to get worse the more it was shot. My dad gave it to me just recently as a gift. I took it to the range after a good cleaning/lube and it started to get the FTF problems again. I talked to my dad and the springs were never replaced, so I ordered a set of springs (recoil, main, and firing pin) from Kimber (since they recommend replacing the recoil at 800 rounds). I read up some and ordered the proper spring for a 4 inch barreled Kimber from Wolff as well as an extractor spring (it has an external extractor).

I replaced these springs and took it to the range. Somewhere between 50 and 100 rounds it started to have FTF problems again and they got progressively worse with more shooting. The rounds would get stuck in a three point jam, the nose of the round on the top of the chamber, the middle of the brass on the feed ramp, and the back of the brass on the slide which kept it from going into battery. It usually is the first round out of one of my Wilson Combat 47D magazines but would also happen in the middle of a magazine as it progressively got worse. I was shooting PMC 230gr. FMJ ammo and one box of Winchester White 185gr. FMJ and it did it with both kinds of ammo. The external extractor extracts every time and works....even though in 250-300 rounds I did get hit in the forehead with brass about 4 times....which is livable in my book.

Any ideas? I'm at a loss and was considering sending it back to KImber.

Now this has evolved into Kiimbers warranty issues.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 6:44:03 AM EST
My GUESS external extractor.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 6:47:22 AM EST
I think you need to look at replacing or repairing the extractor. Somewhere in here, (or wait, someone will post it) is a tutorial on how to tune and tension an extraction. I had the same problem with my Custom II and used the tips to fix the problem. 1000+ rounds and no issues since.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:10:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By dirtyone04:
I think you need to look at replacing or repairing the extractor. Somewhere in here, (or wait, someone will post it) is a tutorial on how to tune and tension an extraction. I had the same problem with my Custom II and used the tips to fix the problem. 1000+ rounds and no issues since.


Dude he got an external extractor,
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:15:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Originally Posted By dirtyone04:
I think you need to look at replacing or repairing the extractor. Somewhere in here, (or wait, someone will post it) is a tutorial on how to tune and tension an extraction. I had the same problem with my Custom II and used the tips to fix the problem. 1000+ rounds and no issues since.


Dude he got an external extractor,


Beautiful grammar. Your teachers, mother and family must be proud of you. ETA: If this is true, disregard my post. If not, take it for what it is worth.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:40:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By dirtyone04:
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Originally Posted By dirtyone04:
I think you need to look at replacing or repairing the extractor. Somewhere in here, (or wait, someone will post it) is a tutorial on how to tune and tension an extraction. I had the same problem with my Custom II and used the tips to fix the problem. 1000+ rounds and no issues since.


Dude he got an external extractor,


Beautiful grammar. Your teachers, mother and family must be proud of you. ETA: If this is true, disregard my post. If not, take it for what it is worth.


Sweet talk me all you want, your not getting a date
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 12:01:27 PM EST
I believe I have read Kimber will replace the whole slide with one with an internal extractor for those who have problems with the external ones. I would give them a call.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:47:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By SERT103:
I believe I have read Kimber will replace the whole slide with one with an internal extractor for those who have problems with the external ones. I would give them a call.


Only problem is that My dad had Novack Low Mount sites installed......I'm curious if it is gonna be extractor or feed ramp/chamber
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 9:22:03 AM EST
Only grammer issue and an internal extractor suggestion? No other ideas or input?
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:53:07 PM EST
WOW
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 10:51:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Nick1971:
Originally Posted By SERT103:
I believe I have read Kimber will replace the whole slide with one with an internal extractor for those who have problems with the external ones. I would give them a call.


Only problem is that My dad had Novack Low Mount sites installed......I'm curious if it is gonna be extractor or feed ramp/chamber


If it is the external extractor, Kimber can cut the novacks in to a new slide.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 12:26:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Originally Posted By Nick1971:
Originally Posted By SERT103:
I believe I have read Kimber will replace the whole slide with one with an internal extractor for those who have problems with the external ones. I would give them a call.


Only problem is that My dad had Novack Low Mount sites installed......I'm curious if it is gonna be extractor or feed ramp/chamber


If it is the external extractor, Kimber can cut the novacks in to a new slide.


I'd be fine with this, or even replacing them with Kimber's like version of nite sights. I figure they will do this and maybe some polishing. Any idea how long Kimber will take to do this?
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 1:18:05 PM EST
None, I had not used Kimbers warrenty service in 10 years (at least). When I did I got my stuff back in less than 5 days.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 6:03:16 PM EST
EXTERNAL EXTRACTOR = send it back to Kimber and make them give you a new slide.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 6:12:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2011 6:13:48 PM EST by Jus_Ad_Bellum]

Originally Posted By dirtyone04:
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Originally Posted By dirtyone04:
I think you need to look at replacing or repairing the extractor. Somewhere in here, (or wait, someone will post it) is a tutorial on how to tune and tension an extraction. I had the same problem with my Custom II and used the tips to fix the problem. 1000+ rounds and no issues since.


Dude he got an external extractor,


Beautiful grammar. Your teachers, mother and family must be proud of you. ETA: If this is true, disregard my post. If not, take it for what it is worth.

I miss the old arfcom

Anyway, try some extra extra stout mag springs in a cmc mag.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 6:12:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By NVGdude:
EXTERNAL EXTRACTOR = send it back to Kimber and make them give you a new slide.


I already have a RA# and am gonna go put some rounds through it Tuesday and then send it back to Kimber dirty so that it will experience the FTF/FTC before about 60 rounds. And of course I will mention the ejecting shells into my forehead thing too. Oh and the copper on the internal part of the slide stop.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 6:13:34 PM EST
Do you all think I should take my custom G10 grips off when I send it in?
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 6:14:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2011 6:15:55 PM EST by Jus_Ad_Bellum]

Originally Posted By Nick1971:
Do you all think I should take my custom G10 grips off when I send it in?

yes. still sounds like weak mag springs to me, but it could be the extract.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 6:16:41 PM EST
is the slide stop engaging before the magazine is empty?
"Oh and the copper on the internal part of the slide stop."
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 6:19:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
is the slide stop engaging before the magazine is empty?
"Oh and the copper on the internal part of the slide stop."


Nope it isn't but I have read that this is what causes the slide to stay back......too much material on the internal part of the slide stop.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 6:29:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Jus_Ad_Bellum:

Originally Posted By dirtyone04:
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Originally Posted By dirtyone04:
I think you need to look at replacing or repairing the extractor. Somewhere in here, (or wait, someone will post it) is a tutorial on how to tune and tension an extraction. I had the same problem with my Custom II and used the tips to fix the problem. 1000+ rounds and no issues since.


Dude he got an external extractor,


Beautiful grammar. Your teachers, mother and family must be proud of you. ETA: If this is true, disregard my post. If not, take it for what it is worth.

I miss the old arfcom

Anyway, try some extra extra stout mag springs in a cmc mag.


I used and use Wilson 47D mags. and this even happened with a brand new one.

Link Posted: 3/13/2011 6:44:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nick1971:
Originally Posted By Jus_Ad_Bellum:

Originally Posted By dirtyone04:
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Originally Posted By dirtyone04:
I think you need to look at replacing or repairing the extractor. Somewhere in here, (or wait, someone will post it) is a tutorial on how to tune and tension an extraction. I had the same problem with my Custom II and used the tips to fix the problem. 1000+ rounds and no issues since.


Dude he got an external extractor,


Beautiful grammar. Your teachers, mother and family must be proud of you. ETA: If this is true, disregard my post. If not, take it for what it is worth.

I miss the old arfcom

Anyway, try some extra extra stout mag springs in a cmc mag.


I used and use Wilson 47D mags. and this even happened with a brand new one.

Those are nice mags, but did you try anything else? Is the brass contacting the extractor when it gums up? I'd be all over getting an internal extractor anyways even if it were mag related (not that wilsons are bad, but they're not the hottest mag these days).

Link Posted: 3/13/2011 9:26:46 PM EST
What mag is popular this week might not be the same one that is popular next week. Regardless, if it won't run with Wilson's it needs fixing, and the EE is the prime culprit.

For the OP, yes I would remove my custom grips and throw on the original cheapies before sending it in.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:32:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 5:32:41 AM EST by Nick1971]
Originally Posted By NVGdude:
What mag is popular this week might not be the same one that is popular next week. Regardless, if it won't run with Wilson's it needs fixing, and the EE is the prime culprit.

For the OP, yes I would remove my custom grips and throw on the original cheapies before sending it in.


Thank you all. I was worried for a while that only the grammar police were going to visit this thread. I cycled some rounds through by hand and it got one of it's three point jams.....seems like the rear of the brass isn't making it all the way up behind the extractor. So I'm guessing external extractor too. I am going to the range on Tuesday and I figure that I will shoot the Kimber some and take some digital photos of the jams so I could print these photos out and send them to Kimber as well. I was going to send the pistol back to Kimber "dirty" so that it will be more likely to jam when they test fire it. What do you all think? Or should I send a nice clean well lubed Kimber back?
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:57:08 AM EST
Send a dirty pig.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:03:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Send a dirty pig.


LOL. While I'm asking questions.....I want to replace the plastic mainspring housing too and I have an aluminum one but it needs a little fitting.....I was gonna send it to Kimber too Or do you have any suggestions on a good mainspring housing. (I went aluminum to match the frame and to maintain lite weight)
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:23:41 AM EST
In Al, nope. I've used Wilson, SA, all were steel. Besides blending the SA magazine funnel to the frame, none really required any fitting.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:34:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
In Al, nope. I've used Wilson, SA, all were steel. Besides blending the SA magazine funnel to the frame, none really required any fitting.


For some reason this aluminum one causes a pin on the top of the frame to stick up a little further than it does with the plastic one.....this causes this pin to drag on the slide....ug....I guess it needs "fitting"
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 9:54:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Nick1971:
Originally Posted By NVGdude:
What mag is popular this week might not be the same one that is popular next week. Regardless, if it won't run with Wilson's it needs fixing, and the EE is the prime culprit.

For the OP, yes I would remove my custom grips and throw on the original cheapies before sending it in.


Thank you all. I was worried for a while that only the grammar police were going to visit this thread. I cycled some rounds through by hand and it got one of it's three point jams.....seems like the rear of the brass isn't making it all the way up behind the extractor. So I'm guessing external extractor too. I am going to the range on Tuesday and I figure that I will shoot the Kimber some and take some digital photos of the jams so I could print these photos out and send them to Kimber as well. I was going to send the pistol back to Kimber "dirty" so that it will be more likely to jam when they test fire it. What do you all think? Or should I send a nice clean well lubed Kimber back?

If the brass is making contact with the extractor and the extractor is essentially pinching the rim or the case so as to slow it down and stopping it before it goes into battery, then it is definitely the extractor. If you had this problem with an internal extractor, then it would be tensioned too tight.

If there was no contact with the extractor and it was hanging up prior to the rim contacting the extractor, it would indicate that the slide was either moving at a speed the mag springs couldn't keep up with or that the slide was essentially short stroking.

To NVGdude: It's not that I have a gripe against wilson mags, but to think that if a gun doesn't run on those mags it must be the extractor is too simple. Sometimes switching to a different mag can help you narrow down under what circumstances the failure occurs and what can be changed to fix it.


Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:18:05 AM EST
MSH should have no effect on the disconnector. unless your talking about another pin like on the Swartz (sp?) saftey system.

I would say you did not reassemble the pistol correctly when you changed the MSH.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:25:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 11:55:54 AM EST by Nick1971]
I sent the pistol off on Monday, 3-14-2011, and here is the letter I sent with it:

Problems:
-Failure to feed rounds completely into the chamber.
-Extracted brass striking shooter (me) in the forehead.
-Copper on the inside part of the slide stop from contact with rounds in the magazine.
Extra Work:
-Replace Mainspring Housing with Stainless Steel Flat Checkered (Product Code# 4100180)

This pistol was purchased new by my father and he has used it at a pistol course at Gunsite and also Front Site training facilities (easily 1,000 rounds each). In October of 2010 at the Alumni Shoot at Gunsite my father experienced these failure to feed problems. He since has given this pistol to me and I want to carry it at work, I am a police officer in ______________. I experienced the same failure to feed problems and was also hit in the fore head with some of the ejected brass. I found out that my father never replaced any of the springs in the pistol and since Kimber recommends replacing the recoil spring at 800 rounds I called Kimber and purchased a spring pack containing the proper recoil spring, firing pin spring, and a main spring and I changed out all of these springs. I went back to the range to try it out. I used 6 different “Wilson Combat” 47D magazines 2 of which are brand new, I shot approximately 250-300 rounds of .45 ACP ammo through this Kimber, 50 rounds of Winchester White Box 185gr. FMJ and the rest was PMC “Bronze” 230gr. FMJ. Between 50 and 100 rounds I began to experience jams when reloading, the first round of the magazine would jam with the nose touching the top of the chamber, the side of the brass on the feed ramp, and the rear lip of the brass touching the slide below the extractor. This would occur when I used the slide release and when I would “slingshot” the slide forward. The more I would shoot the more often this jam would occur and it was not just the first round in the magazine but also the middle rounds of magazines would occur. This jam occurred on multiple magazines including the brand new one.

I would also get hit in the fore head by ejected brass, approximately 5 or 6 times in this last range session. And I noticed some copper on the internal portion of the slide stop from the rounds in the magazine, which I understand can cause problems.
This pistol had Novak low mount night sites installed at Novak and if the slide needs to be replaced I would like to transfer these sites or at least have them replaced by the like version from Kimber. Since I will be carrying this pistol for work I would appreciate it if you would get it to function properly and inspect it for any other problems.
I would also appreciate it if you could replace the plastic mainspring housing with the Stainless Steel flat Mainspring Housing that is checkered that Kimber sells (Product Code # 4100180).
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:26:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
MSH should have no effect on the disconnector. unless your talking about another pin like on the Swartz (sp?) saftey system.

I would say you did not reassemble the pistol correctly when you changed the MSH.


It is a pin in the Swartz system.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 12:19:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 7:22:07 PM EST by Nick1971]
I hope me and my Kimber don't get a visit from this: FAIL
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:40:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 6:51:32 PM EST by Nick1971]
I will update later if you are interested.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:52:10 PM EST
Bumpy
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:28:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Nick1971:
I will update later if you are interested.


guess not but I will anyway to see how Kimber's warranty goes.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:42:29 AM EST
I also decided to get Kimber to properly install a flat stainless steel mainspring housing to replace the plastic one. I figure that 2 oz. won't make a huge difference. Kimber will only install their products and they don't offer an aluminum one so I went with stainless.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 5:35:45 AM EST
I got a call from Kimber yesterday (3-15-11), they have my Pro Carry 2 and were getting the paperwork strait in regards to the proper return address. I'll keep posting updates.
Should I stay with the Novak Low Mount sites that are about 6 years old or should I get Kimber to install their version of this wedge site?
Top Top