Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/2/2006 4:25:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2006 4:39:30 AM EST by 53vortec]
A while back I was posting about the viability of converting my Baby Eagle .45 to cocked & locked capability with EAA Witness parts and someone posted that I should just buy a Jericho in .45 ACP. I'd never heard of such a thing, so i searched high and low while I was home and on Gunbroker, all to no avail. Is this pistol really available?
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 4:33:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By 53vortec:
A while back I was posting about the viability of converting my Baby Eagle .45 to cocked & locked capability with EAA Witness parts and someone posted that I should just buy a Jericho in .45 ACP. I'd never heard of such a thing, so i searched high and low while I was home and on Gunbroker, all to no avail. Is this pistol really available?


Jericho is what the Baby Eagle was, before it was the Baby Eagle. It was offered in 9mm for sure. When the B/E came out it was offered in 9mm and .40 S&W, with the latter offering a conversion to .41 AE (Action Express). (Don't know if the Jericho was offered in .40 S&W/.41 AE.) I could always be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there never was a Jericho .45 and I think you would be wasting your time trying to find one.
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 4:37:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2006 4:38:04 AM EST by Punani]
Nevermind...just saw you have a .45 BE
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 4:42:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2006 4:43:44 AM EST by 53vortec]

Originally Posted By Punani:
B/E's are/were available in .45 as well.


I know, I've got one - that's how the whole conversation started. My Beagle is hands down the most comfortable pistol I've ever fired, but the DA trigger SUCKS in a major way - so I was trying to find out if the Witness lockwork would work in it (all my preliminary measurments indicated it would, I just need to machine a detent in the Baby frame).

As an aside, the Jericho is still available as such in other parts of the world - Baby Eagle is just Magnum Research's name for the ones they distribute in the US.

It is a shame that the Jericho and small frames (9/41/40) were all offered with a manual safety, but never the .45

ETA - sorry about the quote before your edit. Want me to edit to preserve your literacy credibility?
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 4:55:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By 53vortec:

Originally Posted By Punani:
B/E's are/were available in .45 as well.


I know, I've got one - that's how the whole conversation started. My Beagle is hands down the most comfortable pistol I've ever fired, but the DA trigger SUCKS in a major way - so I was trying to find out if the Witness lockwork would work in it (all my preliminary measurments indicated it would, I just need to machine a detent in the Baby frame).

As an aside, the Jericho is still available as such in other parts of the world - Baby Eagle is just Magnum Research's name for the ones they distribute in the US.

It is a shame that the Jericho and small frames (9/41/40) were all offered with a manual safety, but never the .45

ETA - sorry about the quote before your edit. Want me to edit to preserve your literacy credibility?


Nah, that's OK...

I have a 9mm, what are the differences between a .45 and a 9?
I've always wondered about a different trigger for mine.
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 5:01:08 AM EST
The only difference I'm aware of between the slide safety 9/40 frame and the .45 frame is the width of the frame and depth of the mag well. Functionally they're the same. If it did turn out that my conversion is possible, the parts from a Witness 9 or 40 should work in the smaller Beagle. Tangfolio (the manufacturer of the Witness) makes the frames for the Jericho/Baby Eagle pistols, hence the similarites and *potential* parts interchange. I know the .45 parts will fit, just not sure at this point what all components I have to change - unsure if it's a straight swap of the pin for the safety, or if I have to change the trigger pack as well.
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 11:01:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By only_a_flesh_wound:
(Don't know if the Jericho was offered in .40 S&W/.41 AE.)quote]

The "Jericho 941" refers to 9mm and .41 AE. I forget how it was both.
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 11:18:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2006 11:19:19 AM EST by Usafwolfe]
It wasn't both it was either or. In other words the original Jericho pistols were only chambered for 9mm or 41 AE.
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 11:33:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Usafwolfe:
It wasn't both it was either or. In other words the original Jericho pistols were only chambered for 9mm or 41 AE.


Actually they were interchangable. The .41ae round had a rebated rim so that one would have to just drop in the proper barrel. It wasn't a whole lot different from the .40sw except that new slides weren't needed.
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 11:59:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By aaronrb204:

Originally Posted By Usafwolfe:
It wasn't both it was either or. In other words the original Jericho pistols were only chambered for 9mm or 41 AE.


Actually they were interchangable. The .41ae round had a rebated rim so that one would have to just drop in the proper barrel. It wasn't a whole lot different from the .40sw except that new slides weren't needed.


That makes sense. If I could remember all I once knew, I'd be dangerous.
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 5:15:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2006 5:17:36 PM EST by 53vortec]
Jericho 941 is the monicker for the whole line now, besides the US "Baby Eagle." The suffix of the 941 indicate the model - 941F, 941FS, 941FB, etc. It is currentley offered in 9x19, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP - ironically the 941 appears to no longer be available in .41AE. I managed to find one non-US importer that lists a 941FS (frame safety, short slide) available in .45 ACP, but I don't guess any of them ever made it into the US. Booo Magnum Research.
Link Posted: 10/2/2006 7:15:56 PM EST
I wonder why they went to the slide mounted safety. Was it because the Beretta 92 and S&W's offerings were selling so well that they thought people wanted the safety on the slide?

.41ae died pretty quick after .40sw hit the market. It didn't help that the other .41--magnum--never caught on either. Once the FBI went to .40sw, every other LE org hopped on the bandwagon.
Link Posted: 10/3/2006 6:56:08 AM EST
I just recieved an e-mail from Magnum Research informing me that IWI's current .45 is only available with a slide mounted safety. This is in conflict with what the IWI website states, but it makes sense seeing as how I've never seen one in the US or abroad. Looks like I may have to continue on with my project, or have someone do some fancy milling on a Witness or CZ97 to match the Baby Eagle grip profile.

Regarding the .41 AE, I've always regarded that round as perfect eveidence of the herb mentality of the gun world. The .41 matched the .40 in every regard, with the added benefit that the breech faces, extractors, and ejectors for the 9mm pistols remained the same. It never caught on, then the .40 S&W showed up, caught on, and everyone re-tooled to produce components compatible with that cartridge.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 4:39:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2006 4:43:49 AM EST by 53vortec]
Well I can't believe it, but I found one in the US. Was searching Gunbroker for something else when I ran across an expired auction for a NIB Jericho .45 FS, imported by Magnum Research. According to the seller these were built for Israeli Police but some found their way here.

Only problem was the seller noted the rarity in his description, and started bidding at $2,000. No, there weren't any bids. But now I know they do exist, and am on a mission!

Here's some pics from the auction:



Note the lack of Baby Eagle markings. I wonder what Magnum Research's reason for not bringing these in is?

ETA: looks like he has it back up for auction. Link
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 5:26:59 AM EST
Wtf?

I used to see them at gunshows for $400...

Link Posted: 10/25/2006 5:41:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By NME:
Wtf?

I used to see them at gunshows for $400...



When? Where? HOW CAN I FIND ONE?
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 5:45:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2006 5:48:07 AM EST by only_a_flesh_wound]

Originally Posted By 53vortec:
...According to the seller these were built for Israeli Police but some found their way here. ...


Using .45 ACP and not 9mm??? Seems a bit odd to me. I think the seller is just trying to "spin it" to justify that insane $2,000 opening bid. But what the hell do I know.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 6:50:49 AM EST
Mag Res. Imports .45 Jerichos under the baby eagle name all the time.......I used to have one

That being said, the one in the pic IS rare (rarer). Mag Res. usually doesn't market the frame safety variant and they aren't usually marked 'Jericho', rather 'Baby Eagle'. Mine had the slide safety
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:08:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By 53vortec:
...According to the seller these were built for Israeli Police but some found their way here. ...

That smells like GunShow beef jerky.

The 45 FS model is the only one I want, but for $2000, that guy can cram it.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 12:57:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By BulletBait:

Originally Posted By 53vortec:
...According to the seller these were built for Israeli Police but some found their way here. ...

That smells like GunShow beef jerky.

The 45 FS model is the only one I want, but for $2000, that guy can cram it.


Agreed on both points.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 9:02:01 AM EST
I wish I had never traded off my Jericho 941.
It was a real shooter.
I even liked .41 AE.
I think I still have the conversion for my Dillon 550B somewhere.
My only problem was I wore the finish off of it carrying it around so much.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 12:27:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2006 12:32:02 PM EST by LVMIKE]
Both the EAA Witness and Jericho 941 are based on a Tanfoglio (Italian) frame which is an "improved" version of the CZ75.

Both pistols (the EAA and Jericho) share many similar parts; such as the fire control group and slide/barrel assemblies. The only qualifier here is caliber and frame/slide length. As these change, compatability will change. AFAIK there is no equivilant to the "F" series (frame mounted safties) Jerichos imported under the Baby Eagle name.

Conversion would probably require extensive effort, as the frame has some slight differences around the hole used for the thumb saftey. The slide is also completely different, meaning you'd have to use etheir a Jericho "F" series slide or use an EAA Witness slide. Obvious procurement issues aside, the Witness slide would preclude the use of commonly available holsters. Earlier poster mentioned the trigger "pack"-- it would probably require a full on swap. BUT, I have not had both side by side to really get a good comparison look.

My suggestion would be to hunt for a Jericho. Most of them I see available are on gunsamerica. The only other option is an EAA, which shares much of the same grip profile as the Jericho, but less weight in the muzzle. Less weight might not be a bad thing in a carry gun though.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 5:06:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By only_a_flesh_wound:

Originally Posted By 53vortec:
...According to the seller these were built for Israeli Police but some found their way here. ...


Using .45 ACP and not 9mm??? Seems a bit odd to me. I think the seller is just trying to "spin it" to justify that insane $2,000 opening bid. But what the hell do I know.


Yup. Trying to cash in on the "badass israeli" stereotype thats sweeping the US.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:14:21 AM EST
53vortec,
This looks like a very cool gun. I can see why you want this version vs the slide mounted. I tried looking on the net as well...nothing. I did find a 9mm on Guns America and then the one you have posted and thats it. Have you tried contacting your local shops to see if they can get it for you? Good luck in your search. This would be a cool gun to have/shoot.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:39:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
Yup. Trying to cash in on the "badass israeli" stereotype thats sweeping the US.

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:34:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By GungHo:

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
Yup. Trying to cash in on the "badass israeli" stereotype thats sweeping the US.

www.strutter.plus.com/pics/pic15.jpg



Top Top