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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 5/4/2003 3:37:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 4:02:19 PM EDT by Frankie]
Of course the 1911 is an outdated design. It came from an era when weapons were designed to win fights, not to avoid product liability lawsuits. It came from an era when it was the norm to learn how your weapon operated and to practice that operation until it became second nature, not to design the piece to the lowest common denominator. It came from an era in which our country tried to supply its fighting men with the best tools possible, unlike today, when our fighting men and women are issued hardware that was adopted because of international deal making or the fact that the factory is in some well connected congressman's district. Yes, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the 1911 IS an outdated design.... and that's exactly what I love about it.

SA Custom Loaded 1911-A1, O D Green.
Colt Mark IV Series 70, Satin / Nickel.
SAR-1 ( Romanian AK-47 Variant ).
Mossberg 500 pump, Persuader.

Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:51:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 3:55:54 PM EDT by Green0]
I don't think it is outdated at all (it is more expensive to build and NOT IN STYLE IE it isn't injection molded and it doesn't feature a built in accessory rail or loaded chamber indicator)

The military doesn't supply weapons from the worst source (I Like the M-16, I like the M240B, I disslike the SAW, and I think Beretta M9's are absolute CRAP.) So they are probably 65%-35% and that's fine by me.

The 1911 is probably one of the safest handguns currently made. The liability of what? A liberal becoming scared about a cocked and locked sidearm?
I remember reading a quote from a Texas Ranger when asked "you carry cocked and locked? isn't that dangerous?" he said, "If it wasn't dangerous I wouldn't be carrying it".

Glock might have coined the term "safe action" but that doesn't mean it is safe- I owned one and I know this: you pull a Glock trigger and it WILL FIRE - there is nothing safe about it. And that is why so many people have shot themselves in the legs and had unintentional missfires with them.

The SA New glock style sidearm may be as safe but that will take a little time to be sure.

Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:03:53 PM EDT
I'll differ with Green in that I like Beretta's, provided they are properly cared for (at least the 96), but I'll agree that they are VERY safe. If I had the money for one, I'd pick one up pronto. With a Series 80, you have THREE safeties, not just two as on most firearms (or one with Glocks! I don't mind Glocks, but only if the owner knows to keep that dad-gum finger where it belongs until he/she wants to fire the dang thing). Outdate? Not in my case. Long live the 1911! (Frankie, save for your word choice with the first 4 letter word on your sig, I'd have to agree with you on liberals!)
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:07:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:24:39 PM EDT
I think that that's enough to make me want a 1911! :) (Well, I wanted one anyways, but that's still pretty good)

As for guns that fire when I pull the trigger, yeah, I like that. But, I don't like the fact that a Glock might just fire when you holster it. That's one thing that I like about the SA XD. The grip safety. When I try to shoot the gun, I don't even really notice that it's there. When I go to holster it or something, I just try to take my hand off of the safety and put my thumb up on the slide or elsewhere. Sure, if the gun goes off I may break my thumb, but, the chances of that are probably less than the chance of shooting yourself in the leg, and the consequences a lot less serious even if the chances are the same.

Now, about 1911s. I've seen some really tight 1911s, mainly, the Wilson Combat ones. Are these reliable, or does the tightness make then lockup a la M16 when some sand gets in the action? Is it actually better to have a slightly looses weapon? I realize that cleaning your guns will make it work, and I fully intend to. What I'm wondering about is, lets say I'm shooting in a dust storm. I don't think an M16, if cleaned before the storm, is going to lock up right away. Will one of the super tight 1911s lock up soon after the dust storm starts?
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 10:14:06 PM EDT
no
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 3:07:37 AM EDT
The Army bought more than it's share of worthless weapons and junk during the time period the M1911 came out. It has nothing to do with the time period. The M1911 is a great design from a great designer. I don't think it's outdated any more than other Browning designs like the M2HB,.50cal MG.

Heck, I'm looking for another one as we type.

Ross
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 3:29:00 AM EDT
is the USS North Carolina OBSOLETE???HOW ABOUT THE uss Missory??yes thet are but can they still drop a 2000 lb expoloding ordinance on target...you better believe it.
I believe the word obsoulete is too over used in this 21 st century computer age.i beleive the 1911 will be for dale in 2011 and 3011 etc......i beleive the power derived from gunpowder and current desighns of fire arms which really havent changed much in the past 50-75 years are here to stay in their obsoulete form!Q!!!
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 3:29:57 AM EDT
for sale not for dale!!!geeeessszzz excuse me
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 4:00:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2003 4:02:07 AM EDT by Frankie]
Guys. I can't believe some of you didn't see the humor or the logic in what I posted in the very first thread. Re-read it and you will see that it is very PRO-1911, not ANTI-1911. The author by the way can be found in ---sightm1911.com It's a great websight for those of you who enjoy the 1911. Tons of info!
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 6:01:34 AM EDT
Are people any more 'bullet resistant' in 2003 than they were in 1911? I'm talking about people's bodies, not body armor.....
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:53:54 AM EDT
I would submit to you that the 1911 as it stands today IS the most UP TO DATE pistol out there. No other design has had so many people tinker with it to draw out its best attributes.

Think about this.

Guys like Les Baer make 1911's to a standard of quality that puts other pistol makers to absolute shame. His guns are built to give maximum reliability and accuracy even in bad conditions. The parts Les uses to make up his guns are all superbly high quality. No corners are cut to make his 1911 guns.

They are reliable, made to last a lifetime, and they actually LOOK attractive. Sounds pretty advanced to me....
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 12:56:21 PM EDT
I feel ya Frankie! You're singing the 1911's praises, much like I will.


To me, the 1911 is a dead sexy pistol. It's simple elegance is almost deceptive because of it's power. It was designed as a workhorse military pistol, but you know what they say about form and function... sometimes they just COME TOGETHER.

To me, the 1911 will never be outdated or antiquated. Not until the primary weapons of man are no longer explosive propelled lead bullets. The .45ACP is still one of the most popular rounds in use to this day. Many other pistols spit the same lead as the 1911, but none ARE a 1911.

I could get some fancy schmancy polymer gripped beast that holds more bullets than a 1911, but NO gun just fits and MELTS into my hand like the 1911. I mean it. I've handled and fired many different pistols, but NOTHING feels as good in my hand as my 1911.

Loving the classic lines myself, I jumped on the opportunity to get a Springfield Milspec Parkerized. There is not a thing about that pistol I would change as far as appearance. Although I've only fired a couple hundred rounds, it hasn't hiccuped once, nor do I expect it to. That pistol could outlive me!


I know the first pistol I'll reach for when needed will be my 1911.

Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:14:29 PM EDT
I've got a COLT 1911 manufactured back in 1918 for the US Army. Still shoots and stil will kill ya. 7+1 rounds of 230 grain .45 ACP ball.

The 1911 is the best combat pistol ever made. Juat ask all those dead Chinese, Vietnamese, Germans and North Koreans.


CRC
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 9:35:12 PM EDT
It not like the design has remained unchanged since 1911...
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 1:54:26 AM EDT
"Now, about 1911s. I've seen some really tight 1911s, mainly, the Wilson Combat ones. Are these reliable, or does the tightness make then lockup a la M16 when some sand gets in the action? Is it actually better to have a slightly looses weapon? I realize that cleaning your guns will make it work, and I fully intend to. What I'm wondering about is, lets say I'm shooting in a dust storm. I don't think an M16, if cleaned before the storm, is going to lock up right away. Will one of the super tight 1911s lock up soon after the dust storm starts?"

I don't know about Wilson But the Baer guns are very reliable (I didn't have a jam in 2500rds with my Les Baer PremierII. thats with hollowpoints.

My customized Kimber wasn't throated for hollowpoints but with ball ammo it wouldn't jam.

Link Posted: 5/7/2003 6:11:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Green0:
"Now, about 1911s. I've seen some really tight 1911s, mainly, the Wilson Combat ones. Are these reliable, or does the tightness make then lockup a la M16 when some sand gets in the action? Is it actually better to have a slightly looses weapon? I realize that cleaning your guns will make it work, and I fully intend to. What I'm wondering about is, lets say I'm shooting in a dust storm. I don't think an M16, if cleaned before the storm, is going to lock up right away. Will one of the super tight 1911s lock up soon after the dust storm starts?"

I don't know about Wilson But the Baer guns are very reliable (I didn't have a jam in 2500rds with my Les Baer PremierII. thats with hollowpoints.

My customized Kimber wasn't throated for hollowpoints but with ball ammo it wouldn't jam.




You might try different types of hollowpoints in your Kimber. Have you tried Remington Golden Sabers? They are very rounded on the nose...just a suggestion.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:35:54 AM EDT
NO handgun collection is complete without a 1911 model, pure and simple, IMHO. When I told the GF this, and procured a SA1911A1, she said, "Fine, now your collection is complete. No more handguns, right?" Uh, uh, uh, yeah, right-until I ran across the other marvel of handgun engineering by John Browning, the HiPower. (decked out SS model in 9mm, HAD TO HAVE IT!!)
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:43:58 AM EDT
I'm probably a sissy, but 1911s with checkered grips and backstraps are not comfortable for me. They feel like a bunch of little prickly things stabbing me in the hand when I pick them up. I can only imagine how this must hurt when firing full-power 45 loads. OTOH, I like the plastic Wilson KZ-45, but then again, much of my shooting has consisted of Glocks and XDs.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 6:34:44 PM EDT
Amen, gamesniper, on the BHP and the 1911's. The BHP is every much a classic as a 1911, IMHO.

The 1911 seems a more flexible design to get a great trigger pull, but both just feel good in the hand.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:01:03 PM EDT
i suspect one could parachute into any place on this planet and people there would recognize your 1911 and take a step back.

also, it fits, and, it works.

ask someone who has survived a severe dust/sand storm and he will tell you that crap in your gun is a couple down on your priority list at the time. anyone up and about will be skinned alive and no threat to you.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:52:09 PM EDT
Frankie...I understood ya!!!! Gimme the 1911 any day.

Springie OD RE-loaded ( i.e. built completely right )
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 11:26:44 PM EDT
no, some designs are timeless
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 9:57:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johnphin:
I'm probably a sissy, but 1911s with checkered grips and backstraps are not comfortable for me. They feel like a bunch of little prickly things stabbing me in the hand when I pick them up. I can only imagine how this must hurt when firing full-power 45 loads. OTOH, I like the plastic Wilson KZ-45, but then again, much of my shooting has consisted of Glocks and XDs.




Johnphin,

I feel ya on that one... I had a Springfield Loaded, and MAN those grip checkers are POINTY! I replaced them with a set of smoothe cocobolo grips. Now they're on the parkerized milspec I have. I like it all smoothe. Feels very nice in my hand...
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:46:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Green0:
you pull a Glock trigger and it WILL FIRE



Isn't this what a firearm is supposed to do? I definately want mine to fire when I pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:58:37 PM EDT
The 1911 is a remarkably sophisticated firearm evey by today's standards. All it lacks to really be up to date in its mechanical design is double action and MAYBE a decocking lever and loaded chamber indicator.

It has more safety devices than most modern guns. The grip safety, which is so unobtrusive as to be overlooked by almost everybody (which means it is a perfect design) is something that should be included in EVERY handgun design. Add the half cock system and the positive thumb safety, and you have a gun that's safer by far than a Glock or most of your other modern guns.

Nearly a century of gun technology after the 1911 was invented, it's STILL the standard in efficient, reliable handguns. Perhaps the High Power may be better still, but it suffers for its being normally chambered in 9mm, which is inadequate compared to the .45.


John M. Browning was perhaps the greatest genius in firearms of all time. All of his later, more evolved designs are still in production in one form or another with the possible exception of the Browning Auto 5 shotgun, and that's because the market is flooded with them and they're expensive to produce these days. They're certainly widely available still. It's also my favorite shotgun type.


CJ


Link Posted: 5/8/2003 6:15:49 PM EDT
I love this quote:


Texas Ranger Joaquin Jackson who spent the later part of his illustrious career looking after the harsh, massive Texas Big Bend Country, packed a Colt .45 auto throughout his distinguished career. When asked why he carried Colt's .45 Government Model, he replied in typical Ranger fashion... 'Because they don't make a Colt .46!'
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