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Posted: 9/16/2008 12:03:36 PM EST
I just wanted to make sure that +p ammo was ok in a Beretta M9.

I don't plan on running any through mine because I handload my own ammo, but I want to double check in case I ever feel like actually buying some factory ammo.
Link Posted: 9/16/2008 12:50:52 PM EST
I would say on a limited basis sure, I've used em in mine, plus my 1911 aluminum framed pistol, but I'd prob wanna stick with standard pressure loads.
Link Posted: 9/16/2008 5:58:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By sousana:
I would say on a limited basis sure, I've used em in mine, plus my 1911 aluminum framed pistol, but I'd prob wanna stick with standard pressure loads.




What he said.

Shooting more than 2-3 boxes a year would make me bump up my recoil spring for those times. My 92's are worth more than buying an extra $10-12 recoil spring, IMO.

Link Posted: 9/17/2008 4:26:51 AM EST
Thanks guys. That's what I needed to know. I won't be shooting them in my gun.
Link Posted: 9/17/2008 5:41:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2008 5:45:38 AM EST by 53vortec]
They're designed to shoot 9mm NATO ammunition, which runs pressures as high or higher than 9mm +P.

+P wont hurt it a bit.
Link Posted: 9/17/2008 8:56:01 AM EST
I do however, just as I do in all my 1911's and other Semi's, change out the recoil spring every 3000 rounds.

In the case of aluminum framed pistols I change em at 1500 rounds, with the exception of the Beretta.
Link Posted: 9/17/2008 8:31:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2008 8:33:58 PM EST by rparrish]

Is +P ammo ok in Beretta 92FS/M9 Models?


I sure hope so, because I have fired several Cor Bon and Winchester 127 grain +P+ through mine. Seriously though, as others have said, just don't use it all the time and keep a good recoil spring in the pistol and you should be good to go.
Link Posted: 9/17/2008 9:02:43 PM EST
+P is like High Octane Loooooooooooooooooove in my Beretta. Seems happy to eat the stuff.

I have nothing other than that observation though, darn thing eats everything, just seems to really like eating hotter ammo, ejection with regular stuff is anemic kind of like a drinking fountain. Little more satisfying with +p.
Link Posted: 9/18/2008 12:52:18 AM EST
Again, there is no reason to use +P with moderation in the Beretta 92.

They were designed for high pressure 9mm ammunition.
Link Posted: 9/18/2008 8:46:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2008 8:47:08 AM EST by MartinD]
"The Beretta 92FS," by Christopher Bartocci...
...published in Krause Publications' Handguns 2001(13th Edition), states the following information:

"With the gun's major criticisms in mind, I wanted to see how the M9/92FS would stand up to a 20,500 round torture test using mostly +P and +P+ ammunition. I purchased a stock 92FS from a local gun distributor and made some calls for some high-power ammunition. The ammunition used in this test is as follows: 9X19mm (NATO, Parabellum/Luger) manufactured by Winchester/Olin Corporation.

Beretta U.S.A. claims their pistol is serviceable to 35,000 rounds and that it will function under the most adverse conditions. Beretta U.S.A. claims 'the average reliability of all M9s tested at Beretta U.S.A. is 17,500 rounds without stoppage.' The ammunition I chose was the hottest ammunition available and I would not recommend anyone put high round counts of +P+ ammunition through any alloy-frame pistol regardless of manufacturer.

The first thing I did was fire for out-of-the-box accuracy, I used the 115-grain +P+ ammunition and at 15 yards the 15-shot group measured 1.5 inches. I had nine magazines loaded up and someone loading magazines as I emptied them and, within 20 minutes, I fired 500 rounds with no malfunctions of any type...

The next day I began firing 2,000 rounds of the 127-grain +P+SXT, by far the hottest 9mm ammunition I have ever fired. There were no malfunctions of any type using this ammunition. Over the next 3 days I fired 8,000 rounds of 9mm NATO, the standard M882 Ball ammunition issued to U.S. military personnel. The M882 ball cartridge is rated as a +P cartridge by SAAMI specifications.

The barrel was cleaned every 2,000 to 3,000 rounds. It would take us 45 to 50 minutes to fire 1,000 rounds and, at times, the pistol would become too hot to handle. I fired 1,000 rounds of Winchester USA 115-grain 9mm ball with no problems and the pistol, after 11,500 rounds, was still delivering groups in the 1.5-inch range.

At this point, the pistol was totally disassembled and cleaned. Then I fired an additional 6,000 rounds of the 115-grain FMJ with only one malfunction. There was one failure to extract due to an under-powered cartridge, not the pistol.

After about 15,000 rounds I began to notice some pitting on the right wing of the locking block. I recommend changing this part when pitting is noted, but this was a torture test and we wanted to see how long the gun will last.

As of now 17,500 rounds have been fired and I headed back to the range to fire the remaining 3,000 rounds. Finally at round count 19,498, I had a locking block failure. The left wing of the locking block broke and the pistol's slide locked up. By pushing down on the broken wing with a drift punch, the action was freed and the pistol subsequently disassembled, revealing some minimal frame damage - but nothing that would affect the operation of the pistol. I changed the locking block and within 10 minutes I was back in action and concluded the test with no other malfunctions. The last 15 rounds were fired for accuracy; the group measured about 1.75 inches at 15 yards. The accuracy had hardly changed at all.

The locking block survived 19,948 rounds, which included 2,500 rounds of +P+, 8,000 rounds of +P and 10,000 rounds of standard 9mm ball. One friend of mine put it best: 'You fired $4,000 worth of ammunition out of a $450 handgun and broke a $60 part after 19,498 rounds were fired, what more could you ask?'

I feel very few pistols will ever see this round count - except for a military pistol. For many years I have heard people claim the Beretta M9/92FS was a fragile gun because of those early, isolated incidents. Following this torture test, I know this gun is far from fragile! There is no question in my mind the pistol is serviceable to 35,000 rounds; I would not be surprised to see it last 50,000 rounds. The Beretta M9/92FS is, in my opinion, one of the most reliable firearms ever produced - and this test proved it."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something I found on the net, Interesting to note the guy never talks about replacing the a spring or anything other than cleaning. Also he does not talk about replacing the spring from the factory 13lbs spring. He fire many many rounds of +p and +p+ rounds.
Link Posted: 9/28/2008 8:50:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2008 8:50:48 AM EST by ShakenNotStirred]

Originally Posted By MartinD:

The locking block survived 19,948 rounds, which included 2,500 rounds of +P+, 8,000 rounds of +P and 10,000 rounds of standard 9mm ball. One friend of mine put it best: 'You fired $4,000 worth of ammunition out of a $450 handgun and broke a $60 part after 19,498 rounds were fired, what more could you ask?'



I'd say that about sums it up!
Link Posted: 9/28/2008 9:04:27 AM EST
A former ops chief at Gunsite told me that the Beretta 9mm was the single most repaired platform in the gunsmithy, and that locking block failures were the second most common parts breakage in that platform, after return springs.

Just saying...
Link Posted: 9/28/2008 9:10:12 AM EST
This is faulty logic since he only shot it to 20,000:

"There is no question in my mind the pistol is serviceable to 35,000 rounds; I would not be surprised to see it last 50,000 rounds. The Beretta M9/92FS is, in my opinion, one of the most reliable firearms ever produced - and this test proved it."

If you're gonna make a statement like that, shoot it to that number.

Granted 20,000 is a lot of ammo from a single aluminum-framed pistol -- until you consider some SF Soldiers and IPSC shooters will shoot that in less than a month.
Link Posted: 9/28/2008 9:46:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
A former ops chief at Gunsite told me that the Beretta 9mm was the single most repaired platform in the gunsmithy, and that locking block failures were the second most common parts breakage in that platform, after return springs.

Just saying...


Out of curiosity, I asked a former 45B about how many cracked locking blocks he saw while in the Army. His reply? "None."

Not that that's definitive by any means, but I'm just sayin'....
Link Posted: 9/28/2008 10:59:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By 53vortec:

Out of curiosity, I asked a former 45B about how many cracked locking blocks he saw while in the Army. His reply? "None."

Not that that's definitive by any means, but I'm just sayin'....


Most line units don't put enough rounds through their M9's to induce any sort of failures due to wear from shooting. Most M9's are worn out through neglect, improper cleaning (ie, NCO's enforcing "cleaning" to the point of stripping the park/anodize from the weapon), and abuse long before they wear out from shooting.

SF units break lots of locking blocks, but that's because of the round count. In three years in Group, I saw new batches of M9's coming in regularly to replace the ones we had worn out.
Link Posted: 9/28/2008 4:56:32 PM EST

The locking block survived 19,948 rounds, which included 2,500 rounds of +P+, 8,000 rounds of +P and 10,000 rounds of standard 9mm ball. One friend of mine put it best: 'You fired $4,000 worth of ammunition out of a $450 handgun and broke a $60 part after 19,498 rounds were fired, what more could you ask?'


What if it breaks when one's life is on the line? There damn sure aren't any "time outs" available in the real world................

Still, I have nothing but normal loads thru my former IPSC 92FS & I did change the recoil spring, but I have several thousands of rds thru mine w/o the first issue. Which is why I bought two more 92's................
Link Posted: 9/29/2008 7:05:43 AM EST
I would not abuse my gun as the guy did in the statement that I found. I have +p+ loaded into my handgun ONLY for self defense. I never shoot +p or +p+ for "fun". I do change my recoil spring every 1,500 to 2,000 rounds. But speaking of upkeep, I was talking to an Army guy the other day. When I asked him what rifle he was issued (as we were talking guns) he said "I don't know!! But its got a 203 on the bottom!!" I'm leaving it alone on that note.
Link Posted: 9/29/2008 7:46:16 AM EST
Allright guys. Name a pistol that NEVER had a failure.

And with the way most folks use the pistol, they will never see a failure with Beretta, Sig, Glock, etc.

Take care of the weapon and it will take care of you.

So if you are worried about failure then get a backup and learn karate.

Oh, yes...carry a big knife and know how to use it, too.
Link Posted: 9/29/2008 4:12:37 PM EST
Lots of good information in this topic. So far I've got less than 200 rounds through mine without any problems. I've got plenty of brass on the way and hopefully it'll be here by this weekends range trip. Thanks for all the great information guys!
Link Posted: 9/30/2008 10:02:08 AM EST
Thank you MartinD, great post!!
Take care guys
Link Posted: 10/1/2008 12:50:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2008 12:52:46 PM EST by Bubbaguns]

Originally Posted By 53vortec:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
A former ops chief at Gunsite told me that the Beretta 9mm was the single most repaired platform in the gunsmithy, and that locking block failures were the second most common parts breakage in that platform, after return springs.

Just saying...


Out of curiosity, I asked a former 45B about how many cracked locking blocks he saw while in the Army. His reply? "None."

Not that that's definitive by any means, but I'm just sayin'....


I have seen many broken locking blocks on the M-9's we use. But, I don't know how many thousands of rounds the pistols have had through them.

Link Posted: 10/17/2008 2:07:18 PM EST
What is the +P that I keep seeing. please help the ignorance!
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 2:33:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2008 2:37:44 PM EST by KCabbage]
+P means increased pressure which increases velocity. There's also a +P+.

Standard 9mm ammunition has a pressure ceiling of 35,000psi(Pounds per Square Inch)
+P has a ceiling of 38,500psi
+P+ is anything over 38,500psi

For example a standard 124gr. load would move at approx. 1100-1120fps(Feet Per Second)
124gr.+P would move at approx. 1180fps
127gr.+P+ would move at approx. 1250fps

Link Posted: 10/17/2008 2:55:47 PM EST
Thanks man thats kinda what i was thinking but really wasnt sure.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 3:26:45 PM EST
No prob, glad to help
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