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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/6/2005 7:22:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 7:24:53 PM EDT by chapperjoe]
I'm interested in a single action capable 380 single stack to conceal and forget that I'm wearing.

The sig has a firing pin safety and single action capable, e.g. I'm not interested in a P3AT (can't stand small DAO's).

The only other thing I could think of would be a walther ppk, but the sig seems to be so much better made.

and also not looking at PPK b/c I'm not too hot on safety-levers - I want a gun that is always ready to fire.

Maybe I can get a Bersa380 with no lever or decock only?

Link Posted: 8/6/2005 8:22:10 PM EDT
If you're gonna fork out that kinda cash for a Sig, why not go up to a compact 9mm?
I have a Kahr MK9 (bought used), and I've been very happy with it.
A good slim pocket gun IMO. It is a handfull with +P loads though...

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:32:14 AM EDT
I have a Sig P232 stainles .380 for sale.

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:53:36 AM EDT
I just got a PPK and I love it so far. I haven't seen a 232 in person but the Walther feels damn solid to me. I usually keep the safety off as the DA first pull is heavy enough to prevent any ND's. I was considering a P232 but the measurments seemed too big to me for pocket carry, I think the Walther is a good deal shorter in the slide and slightly smaller grip. I'm not saying not to get the Sig, it just sounded like you were totally discounting the Walther.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:04:46 AM EDT
Sig 232 owner here...

Mine shoots like an extension of my hand and has never had a hickup, even when all gunked up. I supposes I could find a 9mm the same size from another manufacturer, but I doubt I'd have the same confidence as to reliability. Also, I have found similarly sized guns harder to shoot - easily placed head shots in .380 are better then difficult to place COM shots in .45.

One of these days I'll probably get a holster for my Glock 36 and put some serious range time in and see if it will win me over. Until then, I will continue to carry my little Sig (it also helps that I am used to the double action pull, carrying the M9 at work and all).
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:00:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By az-gunner:
I have a Sig P232 stainles .380 for sale.




hey-o IM me with details!
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:08:08 AM EDT
Don't waste your time shopping. The Sig P232 is a fantastic firearm. Just go get it.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:50:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 4:54:41 AM EDT by DaddyDett]

The CZ 83 is another choice, and is slightly smaller than the Sig.
CZ 83
When I first got my permit, I assumed I would carry something like a PPK or Mauser HSC.
After some research, I found that for what .380's are going for today, there were guns like
the Kahrs, CZ Rami, and others available in stouter chamberings in the same size range.

I will acknowledge that the PPK still holds a certain mystique, and may well have one in my safe in the months to come.
Knowing me, and my CZ addiction, a CZ 83 might have to be there as well.

DaddyDett
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:04:01 AM EDT
The P230's are nice too, and you can usually find them a little cheaper. I paid $250 and $300 for mine, both basically NIB. I've owned a couple of PPK's and there is no comparison to the SIG's. The SIG is lighter, fits your hand better(and wont bite it) and has a sweet DA trigger. I use a Desantis ankle holster or a Galco Executive shoulder holster for mine. The Desantis is the most comfortable ankle holster I've found. It is also one of the most secure as it uses a retaining strap and tension screw. While I'm not usually really fond of shoulder holsters, the Executive is an amazing little holster that you dont even know you have on, especially with the P230 in it. It has no retaining straps and holds the gun with tension screws and good leather to metal fit. It works great under a sweatshirt or a tux.(I prefer the sweatshirt )
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:06:50 AM EDT
Kahr PM9 or P9.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:19:47 AM EDT

I recently picked up a Colt Gov't Pocketlite that might have been unfired. It outclasses every other .380 I've ever shot. The sky is the limit on how much you want to spend on customizing one to your tastes, but I'm happy with the plain stock model I found. Try shooting one side by side with any of the others. It's a miniature 1911. Imagine the other pistols scaled up to .45 and you'll understand a little more about why the designs suck.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:52:40 AM EDT
My deep cover is a Colt Pony. Exellent 380
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:02:55 AM EDT
Wow - I've never heard of that CZ sure looks well made and I love my RAMI...... It says it s a double column magazine..... is that much wider than the sig or colt?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:56:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DaddyDett:
The CZ 83 is another choice, and is slightly smaller than the Sig.
CZ 83
When I first got my permit, I assumed I would carry something like a PPK or Mauser HSC.
After some research, I found that for what .380's are going for today, there were guns like
the Kahrs, CZ Rami, and others available in stouter chamberings in the same size range.

I will acknowledge that the PPK still holds a certain mystique, and may well have one in my safe in the months to come.
Knowing me, and my CZ addiction, a CZ 83 might have to be there as well.

DaddyDett

The CZ 83 is a great gun. The Beretta 84FS, and the Browning BDA are also both fine guns (The Browning being nothing more than an 84 with a closed slide), but are a little wider than the CZ. I do prefer the take-down of the Beretta/Browning over the CZ, though; just a personal preference thing, mind you. I had a Bersa Thunder .380, but the grip was just a little bit too small for me. Other than that, the Bersa is a great gun, and cheap!
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 10:47:38 AM EDT
is the cz based on the mak? sure looks alike... I'm not so into the double stack mag though.... og tot try out a khar today and was pretty impressed.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 11:22:54 AM EDT
Another vote for the PPK, rock solid.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 8:42:52 PM EDT
I have and love a P232SL; but keep in mind that this 'baby Sig' is really not all that small, or light. They are fantastic guns but not exactly 'pocket sized' esp. in stainless due to the added weight.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 1:42:02 PM EDT
I had a 230 for several years. Nice gun but the slide bit my hand and for the size and weight of the sig, there are other heavy hitting options. If it were between the sig and ppk, I'd take the sig. I would prefer a 642 or likeness to the sig if I were thinking small or get a little thicker and go the baby glock route. I get mixed reviews on the Kahrs and have Zero exp with the CZ. $.02
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 1:45:42 PM EDT
Given your criteria (initial post), I'd say you made an exellent choice.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:09:13 PM EDT
I can also say go for the Sig 380. I had the 230 and the slide also got my hand. Also the grip had a lot of recoil sting. More so than some larger calibers.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:08:49 PM EDT
If you've got the money get the Sig, if not get a Bersa Thunder.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 7:31:19 AM EDT
I have a 232 that I carry often. It is a reliable, accurate, and relatively easy to shoot .380. I wish I could say that about all the .380s I have shot.

The trigger pull on my sample is OK, but it could still use some work. Unlike my Sig 239, which was great out of the box.

I wish the magazine release was in the more conventional position (it is located on the butt of the pistol and it is a bit of a chore to change magazines quickly, as they are a tight fit in the mag well). The magazines are high quality, however.

The sights are acceptable out of the box, something I really appreciate. You can adjust them for windage, too.

I have a standard blued finish, which is good for weight reasons. The all stainless models have stainless frames (heavier), while the blued ones have aluminum frames. If I was going to do it again I would buy the two-tone version. That has the stainless slide and the aluminum frame. Mine looks like hell due to the scratches and dings it gets from regular carry. YMMV on the finish, but if you can get the two tone for the same $$ then I would highly recommend it.

The grips on the pistol are comfortable but they are stupidly big. I suspect SIG did this to get the pistol in under the GCA68 import regs. I haven't replaced the grips on mine yet, but I will eventually.

The last beef is the cartridge. I have my doubts about the .380 round, but I carry it regardless. The pistol shoots reliably and it is accurate. I trust the thing. I wish it was a 9mm, but it ain't. It is better than relying on my rapier wit and charm, but the .380 is no giant killer.

I would go with a Kahr if I hadn't been burned by them years ago. I had a very early K9 that was a goddamn nightmare. The thing broke, and broke, and broke. They must be better now, but I am afraid to find out with my money.

Best to you,
Cheese
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:07:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 2:27:14 PM EDT by thedr13]
I own a 230SL S/S. I put Hogue finger grove rubber grip on it and it fits my hand like a glove.
Shoots great. For CCW, that's the one to go with. I 've owned a Berretta 84 and a Browning BDA. They are great guns but are quite a bit thicker than the 230/232. I like the CZ's but I havn't ever shot a CZ 83. In my opinion, I'd go with the SIG 232.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 9:52:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
is the cz based on the mak? sure looks alike... I'm not so into the double stack mag though.... og tot try out a khar today and was pretty impressed.



Very loosely. The Czechs didn't like accepting standard Soviet hardware, so they engineered and created a lot of their own (almost always better). The Russians had the Tokarev (sp?) so the Czechs re-engineered it and created the CZ52. The Russians had the Makarov, and the Czechs created the CZ82/CZ83.

Consider the CZ83 the upgraded Mak.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 11:10:02 AM EDT
I would check out the CZ and the Walther.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:15:54 PM EDT
Colt Mustang or Mustang Pocketlite
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:04:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RSF45:
If you're gonna fork out that kinda cash for a Sig, why not go up to a compact 9mm?
I have a Kahr MK9 (bought used), and I've been very happy with it.
A good slim pocket gun IMO. It is a handfull with +P loads though...




+1 But look at the PM9.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:11:32 AM EDT
I'd go for the Bersa .380. While you may not be able to find one with out the safety, you can simply drop the hammer (as the safety acts as a decocker) and place it back into the fire position. I probably wouldn't carry it cocked, but the double action trigger pull is not all that heavy. The price is just around $200, so you really can't go wrong. If you haven't already, try one out. You'll be surprised at how nice a pistol it is for so little money. FWIW, I've never had a problem of any kind with mine, and it has had thousands of rounds through it.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:14:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar15zams:
I'd go for the Bersa .380. While you may not be able to find one with out the safety, you can simply drop the hammer (as the safety acts as a decocker) and place it back into the fire position. I probably wouldn't carry it cocked, but the double action trigger pull is not all that heavy. The price is just around $200, so you really can't go wrong. If you haven't already, try one out. You'll be surprised at how nice a pistol it is for so little money. FWIW, I've never had a problem of any kind with mine, and it has had thousands of rounds through it.



I played with the bersa today, safety is not a decocker and it's MUCH bigger (IMO) than baby sig.....
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:48:29 PM EDT
The Sig P232 and the PPK are the top end of the genre. I've seen a lot more range troubles with the PPK than the P232. The only trouble I've had with the P232 is magazine failures (the floorplate lets go when the magazine is dropped, it's an obvious failure and easy to replace the floorplate.) My wife and I each have a P232. She shoots them better than I do, but I carry one as a backup piece when I don't have two P229's available. After several thousand rounds of service, my P229 has been with the smith for a few weeks awaiting a new hammer spring, so I am backing up my second P229 with the P232. It's light, handy, concealable, and a heck of a smaller presence on my left hip than the P229. It rides nicely (high and tight) in a Bianchi Minimalist OWB holster, and I can draw it easily with either hand. It would also do well in an IWB holster, but it is a bit large for carrying in a pants pocket. It does fine in a jacket pocket or in a small fanny pack.

I would recommend against the Kahr's and the similarly small 9mm's. As an NRA Basic Pistol instructor, I've seen a lot of students experiencing too much pain to practice enough to shoot these well. On the contrary, everyone I've seen with one seems to shoot the P232 pretty well. I've also heard of more than a few reliability problems with the Kahr.

Michael Courtney
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