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Page Handguns » H&K
Posted: 2/12/2007 5:11:00 AM EST
Alright, so I'm off traveling to visit the great state of Texas. While I'm out with some friends, we just happen to stop at the local range. This is when the trouble began. So I pick up a rental USP Compact 45, and it just slides in my hand like an old lover that knew just how to touch me (please don't tell my Colt 1911 h.gif ) The first 8 rounds make one large jagged hole @ 7 yards. Not impressive, except for the fact it was the first time firing this pistol. I also had a XD-9 on the bench and didn't find it very interesting (I shot like shit). Same for the array of Glocks we had out, most even made my hand hurt much less the fact I couldn't shoot them very well. This is why I own a 1911 I guess, or maybe it's why I can't shoot anything else.

At this point, I already know I'm buying one. It took less than a minute. The problem? Now, my minds racing what caliber.... I've never owned anything but a .45, but that little deamon inside me is crying more rounds more rounds. What can I do? So I put several boxes of 9mm, .40, and .45 through some rental guns for who knows how long. The problem became the more I shot the less I noticed the little differences. They all felt good and at the end of the day I was even more confused than when I began For those of you who own these fine handguns, do you have any advise? It's a concealed piece, but I also like empting mag's into one hole at the range. I find the penetration intriguing (.357), the big bore power exciting (.45), and the compromise interesting (.40) Part of me screams to pick up the .40 because the round/capacity looks like a nice spot. HELP ME!
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 5:24:22 AM EST
The best deal going right now is from CDNN on USP compact .357 sig models. Go to www.cdnninvestments.com and download their catalog.
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 5:32:55 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Cross_Steel:
The best deal going right now is from CDNN on USP compact .357 sig models. Go to www.cdnninvestments.com and download their catalog.


So should I take this as an endorsement of the .357 sig? I could give a crap about the price, except for the fact I only want to buy one once. I'll probably try to order it from the super friendly people at Red's gun shop in Pflugerville, Texas who listened to me rapid fire for several hours and then talked about fun stuff after that.
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 5:47:49 AM EST
Of the USP compacts, IMO the .40 is the best in compromise of capacity/power.

You have 12+1 rounds available available in a compact, very ergonomic package. You're only giving up one round to the fullsize.

I'm "neither here nor there" on the .357sig, it takes big divots out of our IDPA steel silhouettes, but the muzzle blast and cost per round are a bit prohibitive. IMO, it is less snappier in recoil than the .40.

With practice, you can overcome much of the muzzle flip you may experience with the .40 out of such a short barrel (~3.5") and light package.

I regularly shoot mine in IDPA matches with pretty good results.

BTW: mine's a variant 1, .40 USPc
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 7:04:37 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By rob78:
Of the USP compacts, IMO the .40 is the best in compromise of capacity/power.

You have 12+1 rounds available available in a compact, very ergonomic package. You're only giving up one round to the fullsize.

I'm "neither here nor there" on the .357sig, it takes big divots out of our IDPA steel silhouettes, but the muzzle blast and cost per round are a bit prohibitive. IMO, it is less snappier in recoil than the .40.

With practice, you can overcome much of the muzzle flip you may experience with the .40 out of such a short barrel (~3.5") and light package.

I regularly shoot mine in IDPA matches with pretty good results.

BTW: mine's a variant 1, .40 USPc


Thanks Rob, that's exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. The muzzle flip was a bit more than I would like, but I also got the feeling of 'control' after a few hundred rounds. I'm glad to hear others saying the same thing.
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 10:51:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jest:
Now, I'm even looking at .357 sig's.


I found this thought-provoking when looking into the 357SIG:
Why the 357 sig Cartridge is catching on

Comparing recoil with the .40 is tricky. The 357SIG feels to me like it has a sharper impulse but less muzzle flip, and is more pleasant to shoot, than the .40. Others feel differently. This is out of a small Glock, though. I haven't compared them in the USPc. I bet it'd be much better all-around. Came really close to getting one of those CDNN 357SIG USPc's!

I use a USPc .45 now, and it's a pleasure to shoot. Very soft, tolerable recoil, of course with more muzzle flip...

Probably can't go wrong with any. Price for 357SIG ammo via Georgia Arms was not at all prohibitive compared to .45 (around .20 or .22/rd, I think)...Locally availability is worse.

HTH,
Dave
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 11:27:07 AM EST


I was wondering why you are not considering the 9mm? Despite what is said on the web I have seen some fairly impress penetration by the 9. It is what I carry. Cheaper to shoot and more ammo per mag.
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 3:29:41 PM EST
As a former owner of a .357Sig USP compact, I would say thumbs down. Accuracy was less than ideal & ammo costs weren't worth the fun, IMO.

As a current owner of a USP .45acp compact & fullsize, I can say .45acp is the way to go, bar none. Many owners will tell you their compact is more accurate than their full size & I can include myself in this crowd, for some odd reason.

Big Bore will need to confirm/deny this, but I think the full size mags will fit & work in the compacts if you feel the need to spray & pray at the range.

Unless you own multiple guns/calibers, I would point out that it's easier to own the same caliber for ammo buying.

Welcome to the H&K club, sir!!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/12/2007 8:22:39 PM EST
height=8

I found this thought-provoking when looking into the 357SIG:
Why the 357 sig Cartridge is catching on

I use a USPc .45 now, and it's a pleasure to shoot. Very soft, tolerable recoil, of course with more muzzle flip...


That was an interesting read. I also see you choose to own a .45, would you consider replacing it with a 357 SIG?

height=8

I was wondering why you are not considering the 9mm? Despite what is said on the web I have seen some fairly impress penetration by the 9. It is what I carry. Cheaper to shoot and more ammo per mag.


I'm not against it. But, I don't see any reason for it. You pick up one extra round with the 9mm over 357/.40 with a less powerfull round (in general). I think deciding between 8 rnd of .45 to 12 rnd of 357/40 a harder choice. I'm not overly concerned about ammo cost, I buy in hundreds not hundreds of thousands. I am concidering it, but it's not striking too many positive points on my checklist.

height=8

As a former owner of a .357Sig USP compact, I would say thumbs down. Accuracy was less than ideal & ammo costs weren't worth the fun, IMO.

As a current owner of a USP .45acp compact & fullsize, I can say .45acp is the way to go, bar none. Many owners will tell you their compact is more accurate than their full size & I can include myself in this crowd, for some odd reason.

Big Bore will need to confirm/deny this, but I think the full size mags will fit & work in the compacts if you feel the need to spray & pray at the range.

Unless you own multiple guns/calibers, I would point out that it's easier to own the same caliber for ammo buying.

Welcome to the H&K club, sir!!!!!!


This really concerns me as accuracy is important to me. I find it more enjoyable to shoot accurately than any other factor. In a defence situation, I am sure any available caliber will do just fine when it comes down to it.

From what I have read (yeah, I've been reading tons on this never ending topic today) the 357 SIG is a very accurate round with a very flat trajectory giving it excellent range. This is just general talk though, not what this specific pistol does in the hands of someone familiar with it. I haven't shot one yet.

I shot the best with the .45, but I chalked it up to getting familiar with the pistol. If your having marked accuracy improvements by switching calibers in the same pistol too, then this is something I want to consider. Can you attribute this to anything outside of the caliber selection?

Link Posted: 2/13/2007 8:30:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jest:
If your having marked accuracy improvements by switching calibers in the same pistol too, then this is something I want to consider. Can you attribute this to anything outside of the caliber selection?




Not really. I tried different ammo & the usual attempted fixes. Coulda been the gun, too. (Blasphmy, I know.)

What was irksome for me, is the .357mag is wonderfully accurate & I wanted the same for the USP.................
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 12:00:31 PM EST
i stuck w/ the .45acp--i just went w/ the fullsize ones

.40sw would be the best compromise w/ the compact models though for your uses
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 12:04:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
i stuck w/ the .45acp--i just went w/ the fullsize ones

.40sw would be the best compromise w/ the compact models though for your uses


Am I mistaken, or can you buy a .357Sig barrel for the .40 and swap them out?

I know they can use the same mags, but IIRC, I heard here that the .40 will take a .357 barrel but not vice versa.


whaddya think BobCole? have I lost my mind?
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 7:27:10 PM EST
I am way way more accurate with my HK45C than I am with my HK 40 full size. Unbelievable accuracy from it's less than 4" barrel!

Gunzer
Link Posted: 2/14/2007 1:07:46 PM EST
I have a USPc .45 and a P2000 in 9mm. Both are great weapons. I like them both a lot. The USPc is my nightstand weapon and usually has a TLR-2 light/laser attached. I probably shoot the P2000 more. Go with HK. You won't be sorry.
Link Posted: 2/14/2007 1:39:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By rob78:

Am I mistaken, or can you buy a .357Sig barrel for the .40 and swap them out?

I know they can use the same mags, but IIRC, I heard here that the .40 will take a .357 barrel but not vice versa.


whaddya think BobCole? have I lost my mind?



As far as *I* know, any .40 can use a .357Sig barrel & vice versa. Some models, such as the Sig P-239, require a bit heavier recoil spring for the .357Sig.

The OD if the barrels will tell the true story of if they'll swap back & forth, IMO.

As for you losing your mind, I'll let you know after *I* find mine...............
Link Posted: 2/15/2007 12:49:26 PM EST
i likee my usp full size 9mm variant 1. shoots anything and it's accurate. i do love the socoms though. i have 2 1911's a colt defender and a springfield v12 ported and like them too.
Link Posted: 2/18/2007 3:40:46 PM EST
I've got a Fullsize 45 and a Compact 45. Both are awesome. I'm getting a Compact 9 this week though. Cheaper ammo, higher capacity, and 9mm is plenty for self defense. I'm not a fan of the .40 S&W. I don't think it offers that much over a good 9mm round in terms of performance, but you get more recoil and flip. IMO.
Link Posted: 2/18/2007 4:47:46 PM EST
A few corrections need to be made.

1.A full size USP mag will not work in the Compact.
The Compact mag will not work in the full size.

2. In the Compact ONLY, to change from a .40 to .357 SIG or from a .357 SIG to a .40, all that is needed is a barrel change, nothing else, not even the mags for they are the same.

3. You cannot convert a .40 full size to .357 SIG. Even HK tried this and failed a year or two ago. Something about those plastic mags just would not work. Those who have tried by getting aftermarket barrels have run into all kinds of problems and eventually either have to give up or do a lot of work on the .357 SIG barrel to ensure reliable feeding, and even then it is iffy. Jarvis got so tired of people complaining that they will no longer chamber a full size barrel in .357 SIG.

4. And I throw these last two in as a bonus because it always comes up when talking about full size .45s. All USP .45 mags work in all full size .45 USPs. There is no difference in the Expert mag, the Tactical mag, or the USP mag except for, at one time, the floor plates. Even now the floor plates are all the same.

5. SOCOM mags work perfectly in the USP but you cannot use USP mags in the SOCOM. Even if you switch the USP floor plates out with the SOCOM floor plates the mags will not work properly. The SOCOM mags have longer feed lips and while the longer lips work fine in the USP, the shorter feed lips of the USP mag will not work in the SOCOM properly.


Link Posted: 2/22/2007 5:18:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jest:
Alright, so I'm off traveling to visit the great state of Texas. While I'm out with some friends, we just happen to stop at the local range. This is when the trouble began. So I pick up a rental USP Compact 45, and it just slides in my hand like an old lover that knew just how to touch me (please don't tell my Colt 1911 ) The first 8 rounds make one large jagged hole @ 7 yards. Not impressive, except for the fact it was the first time firing this pistol. I also had a XD-9 on the bench and didn't find it very interesting (I shot like shit). Same for the array of Glocks we had out, most even made my hand hurt much less the fact I couldn't shoot them very well. This is why I own a 1911 I guess, or maybe it's why I can't shoot anything else.

At this point, I already know I'm buying one. It took less than a minute. The problem? Now, my minds racing what caliber.... I've never owned anything but a .45, but that little deamon inside me is crying more rounds more rounds. What can I do? So I put several boxes of 9mm, .40, and .45 through some rental guns for who knows how long. The problem became the more I shot the less I noticed the little differences. They all felt good and at the end of the day I was even more confused than when I began Now, I'm even looking at .357 sig's.

For those of you who own these fine handguns, do you have any advise? It's a concealed piece, but I also like empting mag's into one hole at the range. I find the penetration intriguing (.357), the big bore power exciting (.45), and the compromise interesting (.40) Part of me screams to pick up the .40 because the round/capacity looks like a nice spot. HELP ME!


Maybe the USP Compact 45 is better than the Tactical,cause I can't stand my Tactical .45 that's why it's on the EE.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 2:48:01 PM EST
I have the USPc .45, and will soon acquire one in 9mm. The .40 S&W caliber does not interest me in the least.

I have shot all three calibers; in fact, a pal's FFDO .40 USPc is what got me interested in the pistol. IMO, the .40 has noticeably more recoil/flip than either the .45 or 9mm.

Be aware that the 9mm and the .40 are a bit smaller, in OAL and length of the grip, than the .45. Not much, but enough to notice. Width and height are the same on all. I have a small hand, and the 9mm/.40 grip feels better to me. But I have been shooting the .45 since July, over 5K rounds, and I have "adapted" to it.

I like this pistol immensely. My Glocks which have served me faithfully since 1992 are now gathering dust.

FWIW... there is a reason that CDNN and others have the .357 Sig caliber guns "on sale". I do not know what that reason is, but I suspect slow sales has a lot to do with it. The only thing I know for sure is that they are not reducing the price out of the goodness of their hearts...

With good ammunition, the USPc is extremely accurate. And the legendary HK reliability is just that. The only malfunctions (five total) I have experienced were due to too-lightly-loaded ammunition when I was experimenting to find a good, soft practice load.

I have never understood this capacity thing. IMO, the .40 is neither fish nor fowl, although many folks are fond of it. To me, if you want a lot of bullets, carry a 9mm. If you want big bullets, carry a .45. If you want a lot of big bullets, carry an M1A or FAL or G3...

.

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