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Posted: 9/23/2005 8:12:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 8:12:33 PM EDT by Jerad]
        I'll be eligible to get my CCW permit in a few months and I've decided I need a new gun to go along with it. Now for years I've shot glocks and I've really enjoyed them; however, I've decided that I need to pick up a 1911 and see what all the craze is about. I'm looking for a gun that can be comfortably carried in a small of the back holster, in both summer and winter months.
         
So far I really like the Kimber Ultra line, but I can't decide if I want to get the Ultra CDP II or the Tactical Ultra II, any opinions? What other manufactures/guns should I look at before making my decision? Is a ramped barrel really that Important? Am I making a mistake, by making my first 1911 a sub-compact? I'm just looking for ideas and suggestions before I drop 1k on a hand gun.

Thanks for you time,
Jerad
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:21:52 PM EDT
Avoid external extractors the same way you'd avoid a woman with aids.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:30:25 PM EDT
Please, keep in mind that your dealing with someone who knows very little about 1911. Why avoid external extractors, arn't external extactors the norm for reliable guns like glocks? Don't all kimber pistols have external extractors, if not which ones don't?

Thanks for the hint, but I need more info.

Jerad
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:31:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 8:32:44 PM EDT by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Avoid external extractors the same way you'd avoid a woman with aids.



Please.

Only if you are a strictly devout 1911 purist.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:43:06 PM EDT
There's much debate about internal vs external extractors.

Problem with 1911's is that they were designed for internal....and no one company/maker has hit upon the "This Will Work" design for the external type.

Most all "normal" 1911's have internal extractors. They could require some tuning, but in theory, bone stock in-spec 1911 extractors will always work, given that the barrel, ejector, slide, etc is all in the original spec.

Start with a used Colt Series 70, or other older Colt...they work. Grow from there.

Just my opinion...


If you want a good carry piece in 1911 flavor, well...there's a ton out there, most good. It helps..shit, pays dividends...if you're already familiar with the platform. (Think wanting to buy a shorty AR...it helps if you do the work and research first to see what potential problems may be)

Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:49:33 PM EDT
My Colt Defender is a great ccw, fun, very accurate and ez take down!  I love it!---------------------------


GTD
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:56:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Avoid external extractors the same way you'd avoid a woman with aids.



Please.

Only if you are a strictly devout 1911 purist.



Or if you've had one that doesnt work
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:57:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Avoid external extractors the same way you'd avoid a woman with aids.



Please.

Only if you are a strictly devout 1911 purist.



Or if you've had one that doesnt work



Alright we'll give you a pass on that then......
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 9:00:03 PM EDT
My brothers doesnt work either....
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:49:46 AM EDT
Getting to know the platform is good advise.  There's a lot of things to consider, but if you're looking at a 3" barrel 1911, you should look at the Springfield Micro.  I own two of them and like them a lot for deep concealment.  One of the two did take a bit of trial and error to get running right.  I had to drill a dimple into the slide stop and it still only runs with light bullets for defensive ammo.  Neither one of those is a big issue for me, but I do have to make sure what ammo I load into it when carrying.  It runs 100% with 230 grain FMJ ammo and only hesitates with 230 JHP.  

The other is dead nuts reliable with everything I feed it.  

If you can conceal a larger gun, you really should set a minimum barrel of 4".  Only go to the 3" if there is no way to work with the longer barrel.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:01:53 PM EDT
Kimber has had problems with their external design and is on the 4th or so design. S&W has an external extractor and has had zero issues with their design. It's an issue in the 1911 workd but don't let it get in your way on making a decision.


Originally Posted By Jerad:
Please, keep in mind that your dealing with someone who knows very little about 1911. Why avoid external extractors, arn't external extactors the norm for reliable guns like glocks? Don't all kimber pistols have external extractors, if not which ones don't?

Thanks for the hint, but I need more info.

Jerad

Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:04:47 PM EDT
To be honest with you guys, I need a small package, light weight, large caliber hand gun that is going to be reliable and it sounds like I may not get it out of a 1911. Should I go back to glock and look at a 29 or 30?

I only have the money to buy one hand gun and I need it to run right out of the box, after dropping 1k on a 1911 I won't have the cash flow or time available to modify it so it works. So it needs to run on JHP & FMJ 230grn. right out of the box, just as my glocks did.

Am I going in the wrong direction?

Jerad
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:08:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:16:49 PM EDT
If you don't absolutely require a small and light pistol, a Les Baer TRS or RRA ADCO special are good buys.  They may take some time to break in.

A Les Baer Stinger or Colt CCO is smaller and much lighter.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:22:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By Jerad:
Now for years I've shot glocks and I've really enjoyed them



Dont fix what isnt broke.



+1
If you are used to glocks, use glocks.
If you are a 1911 guy, use a 1911.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:58:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By Jerad:
Now for years I've shot glocks and I've really enjoyed them



Dont fix what isnt broke.



+1
If you are used to glocks, use glocks.
If you are a 1911 guy, use a 1911.



I've used glock and I love glocks, but I'm trying to expand my collection and gain appreciation for an American classic.

Anyone know if the springfield Micro-Compact comes with night sights and is a ramped barrel that important with an alloy frame?

Thanks,
Jerad
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:43:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GoldtopDude:
My Colt Defender is a great ccw, fun, very accurate and ez take down!  I love it!---------------------------


GTD



I know I said it before, but the Colt Defender feels much like a 5"  and recoil is no problem!----Trigger 4.25lb out of teh box and eats anything you feed it!

Sorry i'm just very very happy with mine and others that own the "Defender" tell me the same.

Did I say no bbl bushing?  Oh ya, thats a great way to get in to the family and have a daily ccw as well!!

Ok, I'll stop------------------------------------------------------------------------------------for now-------------------!

GTD
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 3:52:49 PM EDT
Go Glock.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:05:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jerad:

Anyone know if the springfield Micro-Compact comes with night sights and is a ramped barrel that important with an alloy frame?

Thanks,
Jerad



Yes, the Micro has night sights except for the GI version.  Both the Loaded and the GI model have a ramped barrel.  The ramped barrel is important with an alloy frame and the Micro has one.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:48:33 PM EDT
So it sounds like due to the internal extractor the Springfield Micro will be a more reliable firearm. Does anyone besides cliffy109 have any experience with the micro?

Thanks,

Jerad
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:02:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:09:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:16:10 PM EDT
Go with a 5" 1911. The absolute "best buy" IMHO in a tradional 1911 is the Kimber 25th Anniversay Custom. If can be had for less than $800 OTD. Check Gunbroker.com and Auctionarms .com It is again IMHO the best "bang for your buck" in a full size 1911.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:37:08 PM EDT
A lot of the time I carry a 5" Springfield IWB.  With the appropriate belt and holster, it works quite well.

More often, I carry a Kimber Eclipse Pro II (stainless Commander sized) with the Dreaded External Extractor (code name DEE).  I haven't had any problems with the DEE.  Until I read it here, I didn't even know there was a problem with the DEE.

I did have a problem with an aftermarket slide stop on it, so I took that slide stop off and put the original back on and haven't had any further problems.

I'm not a big fan of the super-mini 1911s.  They don't fit my hands very well.  I have a friend who carries with one of the Kimber tinys and he likes it a lot.  Me, having my pinky hanging below the grip just weirds me out somehow.

Hmm, I just checked and my Browning HP-35 has the DEE on it, too.  It's always worked.  I'm lucky!  
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:53:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jerad:
To be honest with you guys, I need a small package, light weight, large caliber hand gun that is going to be reliable and it sounds like I may not get it out of a 1911. Should I go back to glock and look at a 29 or 30?

I only have the money to buy one hand gun and I need it to run right out of the box, after dropping 1k on a 1911 I won't have the cash flow or time available to modify it so it works. So it needs to run on JHP & FMJ 230grn. right out of the box, just as my glocks did.

Am I going in the wrong direction?

Jerad



Honestly? I'd be eschewing autos and pick up a snubbie revolver in that case.

But, that's just me.

Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:21:43 PM EDT
To me I would never carry a gun for self defense I was 100% familiar with.  Other than that I'm not an ogre so I only can carry my 3" micro compact during the winter months and sometimes I can even get by with the full size springfield when I'm not taking my coat on and off 100 times.  During the summer I go with my .38 airlight.  Hell half the time I don't even know its there.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:31:06 PM EDT
New Colt Commander, a bit smaller then a 5" model, can be had in a LW configuration, tend to be more reliable out of the box then a smaller model, bit easier to shoot then a smaller model, many parts are interchangable, lots of stuff on the aftermarket for them, springs tend to last longer then the smaller ones. I also have a Defender which has been 100% reliable from day one, has eaten everything I have thrown at it. Great little CCW piece.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:48:09 PM EDT
My bros ex has a SA micro and it never felled to go threw what we fed it.  I personally put probably 700 plus rounds threw it without a glitch!
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 8:50:35 PM EDT
My current CCW gun is a Les Baer Stinger in blued steel.  It is heavy compared to the gun it replaced, a Kimber Ultra CDP-II, but worn in my Milt Sparks Versa-Max-II I hardly notice the added weight.  The extra heft is a comfort when shooting it.

I had a MIM failure and it scared me away from it for carry purposes.  I still have my Custom Classic-I and love it, but wouldn't carry a MIM'd gun for personal protection.  That's just me, though.

You mentioned the small-of-the-back (SOB) holster.  PLEASE RECONSIDER THIS METHOD OF CARRY!  The SOB holster placed a bar of steel directly across your lumbar region.  One good fall on your back could cause a serious spinal injury.  This method also tends to sweep others when drawing.  A good IWB (inside the waistband) holster such as the Milt Sparks Versa-Max-II, Watch 6, or Summer Special, along with a proper gun belt  will hide a larger gun in a much more secure and safe position than the SOB holster.

Good luck and stay safe.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 12:50:21 PM EDT
What was the MIM failure?
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 1:35:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2005 1:35:59 PM EDT by DocGun]
If using a quality IWB holster for a 1911, example a VM 2, the comfort level between a small framed 1911 and a 5" is negligible. I keep suggesting this when asked of a quality 1911: Search Gunbroker.com or Auctionarms.com for the Kimber 25th Anniversary Custom. The original retail price was just under $1000 when these came out. You can pick one up brand new for less than $800, including delivery, transfer fee, etc.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:29:10 PM EDT
At about 3500 rounds, the magazine catch shattered into two main pieces and several small ones while I was qualifying with it for my off-duty gun.  I've been shooting 1911's for the better part of a decade and I've never even heard of a magazine catch breaking.  It got me thinking about the other MIM parts.  Now I could have replaced most of the MIM with better parts, but no one makes replacement parts for the series-II safety.  I'm not a big believer in deactivating factory safeties, so that was not an option for me.  I had outstanding success with my Premier-II (over 50K rounds) so I decided to try a Stinger.  So far it has been extremely reliable and accurate.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:24:41 AM EDT
I'd always heard that the ultra compact 1911's were difficult to fire accurately / reliably but never was much interested in them. Awhile back, I got a chance to blast through a couple mags with a used Kimber ultra CDP. I was greatly impressed with that little gun. Very accurate and easy to shoot well with.

Still I think you would be better off going with a fulsize 1911 for your 1st. What I enjoy most about my fulsize 1911's is the awesome accuracy, nice trigger, and lack of recoil.
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