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Posted: 10/24/2006 7:07:28 AM EST
Years ago I decided that a 1911 was a must have for any legitimate collection.
I bought a NIB Springfield 1911A1 and cant say a positive thing about it. It was a problem gun from the day I brought it home...constantly jammed on any kind of ammo I tried...never made it through a single mag without some kind of FTF or FTE issue. Sent it back to Springfield (on my dime), and when I got it back it really wasnt any better. Long story short - the experience sucked and I got rid of the gun and bought something else with the money.

I always kinda figured that I just got a bad model...since about a million people here swear by the 1911 design. I am ready to give it another go, but I am a bit anxious about what to get. I always heard that Kimber made a great pistol, but lately I have seen a lot of threads about how their quality has gone downhill. I will not buy another springfield....not after what I went through with them. Aside from a vintage Colt, I dont know of another decent, highly regarded 1911 (except for those $1000+ boutique custom jobs)

Any endorsements / recommendations?
My only requirement is that I dont want to have to mess with it to make it work correctly.
I expect to buy the pistol, take it out of the box, and shoot it.
If it cant go through the first 1000 rounds without a problem, I am going to be pissed.

My Glocks and my S&W's have never ever presented a single cycling issue.
From the day I bought them all, many thousands of rounds through them, not one issue of any kind.

What 1911 can I expect that same performance with?

(please post pics of recommendations if you have any)
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 7:17:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2006 7:19:02 AM EST by markm]

Originally Posted By macro:
I bought a NIB Springfield 1911A1 and cant say a positive thing about it. It was a problem gun from the day I brought it home...constantly jammed on any kind of ammo I tried...never made it through a single mag without some kind of FTF or FTE issue. Sent it back to Springfield (on my dime), and when I got it back it really wasnt any better.


This is SHOCKING!

How dare you make up such nonsense about these fine pistols!

Try the Taurus PT1911. All the range reports I've read hear have been zero malfs.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 7:24:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By macro:
I bought a NIB Springfield 1911A1 and cant say a positive thing about it. It was a problem gun from the day I brought it home...constantly jammed on any kind of ammo I tried...never made it through a single mag without some kind of FTF or FTE issue. Sent it back to Springfield (on my dime), and when I got it back it really wasnt any better.


This is SHOCKING!

How dare you make up such nonsense about these fine pistols!


I assume you are joking.
When I bought it I was led to beleive that Springfield had a long standing good name in 1911's. Maybe they do, but my was a piece of garbage. Their shop apparently polished the feed ramp to solve the jamming issue I had, but when I got it back, it would only feed maybe 10 rounds....as soon as it got dirty, jam-o-matic.

I tried several types of ammo, had other people try to shoot it to see if it was just me.....nothing....garbage.

I still here that the mil-spec weapons are reliable, but I am wary of giving any money to this company...forgetting the mechanical issues with the gun, i didnt like the customer service. I felt they could have put a little more effort into the issue. They never even sounded like they cared. I spent over $700 on a new gun and it never even worked....they didnt seem the slightest bit concerrned.

By comparison, when I called Bushmaster about an issue with a part on one of my rifles, the person who answered the phone understood exactly what I was talking about and sent a replacement free of charge overnight to me....they appologized for any inconvenience and I had my rifle back in commision 48 hours later. That is customer service. Springfield made me feel like I was wasting their time. I will not give them my business.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 7:31:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By macro:
I assume you are joking.
When I bought it I was led to beleive that Springfield had a long standing good name in 1911's. Maybe they do, but my was a piece of garbage.


I am completely JOKING! I too owned a piece of shit Springer. But you'll quickly be shunned here by the Springfield loyalists!

You're already ahead of their first arguement, however... "Send it back.. blah blah"

Springfield is not the same Springfield is was back during the war effort. The name was bought out, and now they've totally bastardized it. Not only do the 1911s suck hind tit, but the M1A under their name have an even WORSE reputation.

Link Posted: 10/24/2006 7:33:38 AM EST
I've had experience with lots of 1911's cause I too wanted to have a legitimate gun-collection. I started with a Springfield and well got rid of it quickly(not the G.I. model either!), then I bought a Sig GSR and loved it. I traded that for a nice Kimber that died after a foolish decision and rans some WWB ammo through it. Luckily Kimber fixed it, and now I wanted to shoot IDPA in the Stock Service Pistol group and tried out my buddies STI Trojan 5.0. Well I own that STI now and I love it. Honestly get out and try your buddies 1911's and see what you like.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 7:42:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By extxdpscamaro:
I've had experience with lots of 1911's cause I too wanted to have a legitimate gun-collection. I started with a Springfield and well got rid of it quickly(not the G.I. model either!), then I bought a Sig GSR and loved it. I traded that for a nice Kimber that died after a foolish decision and rans some WWB ammo through it. Luckily Kimber fixed it, and now I wanted to shoot IDPA in the Stock Service Pistol group and tried out my buddies STI Trojan 5.0. Well I own that STI now and I love it. Honestly get out and try your buddies 1911's and see what you like.



What was the issue with shooting WWB through a Kimber?

Link Posted: 10/24/2006 7:54:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2006 8:15:35 AM EST by extxdpscamaro]
Well, it blew up my barrel. Brand new Kimber this was the 14th round through the pistol. Kimber said that it was found to be an ammo buldge causing the barrel to crack(real bad). The barrel bushing and lug blew all over the damn place. The gun range owner asked to keep the barrel when I got the gun back to show what NOT to use in your nice gun... (shrug) Winchester denies any fault in their ammo and after testing the remainder of the ammo I sent to them, they said that in good faith they would send me replacement ammo. Yeah they sent me 500 rounds of WWB. I gave it away. I'll see if I can update this with a link to my old post on AR15 about the incident...

Okay here is my old thread from an 1911 forum... I can search through archived here so I think I will send in my payment to be come a Bronze member. ;)
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=6192&highlight=extxdpscamaro
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 8:34:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2006 11:03:13 AM EST by tvone]
You made me laugh as I just did the same thing.

20 some odd years ago when I turned 21, I went to my local gunshop and bought a brand new Colt Government model. It was junk. I threw money at it like no tomorrow to get it to work. Never could get it to work 50 rounds without a jam. So I thought I just had a bad one. Went to a well known 1911 smith at the time and bought one of his. Better, but not 100% reliable. I threw money at that one too.

I broke down and bought a Briley re-worked Colt. It worked most of the time, and was the most accurate handgun I've every owned. Someone offered me a pricely sum for it and I stupidly sold it. I've been trying to buy it back for 15 years.

Since then, I bought and sold a few, but never really found one that ran 100% until I purchased a 9mm SA Ultra Compact. That worked, but I didn't like the size and sold it off too.

Got the 1911 bug again, and decided on a decent one. I know the really good ones are $1500 +. I've been to every internet site and gunshop around.

There's a lot of used guns out there, but be really careful about kitchen table modifications. A 1911 is not a Glock, and any "drop-in" part is not usually that easy.

I decided on new. Kimber was at the top of my list, but also was the Taurus. I figured the Kimber wouldn't need a lot of extra $$ poured into it and the Taurus was cheap enough that I could. I read up on Sig's GSR, but it seemed to have teething pains.
S&W was also considered, but the two I looked were nothing special. I also liked internal extractors vs. the external ones just because of ease of replacing.

Finally got my hands on a CZ Dan Wesson Bobtail Classic Commander. Ed Brown parts, Novak night sights, match barrel, and the usual list of good stuff. Yes, it does have a cast frame, but it is done very well. No big rollmarks. No rattles. I paid $875 to my local dealer out the door.

Fit and finish inside and out is outstanding. The bobtail is very comfortable. Reviews have been very good.

We'll have to see if mine works, just got it a few days ago. I'll shoot it Friday.

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=66
The Commander Classic Bobtail is a 4.25” series 70 style, commander sized 1911 featuring a stainless steel frame and forged stainless steel slide. Like all Dan Wesson 1911s, Commander models incorporate top quality parts from the best names in the industry.

· Round top slide with fixed 3 dot tritium night sights
· Forged, one piece match grade barrel and bushing.
· Ed Brown Bobtail mainspring housing
· 20 LPI checkered front strap
· Hand polished flat surfaces with contrasting bead blasted rounds
· Beveled magwell
· All sharp edges dehorned by hand
· Lowered and flared ejection port
· Ed Brown memory groove grip safety
· Ed Brown slide stop
· Tactical, extended thumb safety
· Commander style match hammer
· Match grade sear
· Aluminum trigger with stainless bow
· Extended serrated magazine catch
· Wolff springs used exclusively
· Diamond checkered coco-bolo grips
· Tuned, machined, internal extractor
· Test fired for reliability
· 34 ounces unloaded


***One thing that I noticed that most likely will not happen with any 1911. It will jam during the first 1000 rounds. They require a break-in period. I don't expect my pistol to be any different.***
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 8:39:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By extxdpscamaro:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=6192&highlight=extxdpscamaro


Read through that thread...interesting stuff.
I use WWB for pretty much all my handguns at the range with few exceptions.
Never had an issue with anything like what you experienced...even with my G22 which is the supposed ticking time-bomb!

What was the final verdict on your situation?
Ammo related or manufacturing defect?
Sounded like Kimber and Winchester pointing the finger at each other, but not a lot of hard evidence to support either argument.

It did sound like an ammo issue but obviously i cant say without having the parts in front of me to look at.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 10:57:13 AM EST
I feel that since the gun was brand new I feel it shouldn't have been the pistol. The barrel had markings on the inside that were consistant with a squib load like most people suggested. The rest of the ammo, I took a micrometer to it and usually 1 out of 10 were a couple thous. off. I guess that's not too bad but I had no way to test the primers or the brass.... Perhaps a bad batch?
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 4:18:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2006 4:27:06 PM EST by JohnnyEgo]
Disclaimer: I have used and continue to use 1000s of rounds of WWB in my guns because I am cheap and haven't had a problem with it yet. That said...

The gun shop that I worked at has two bulged barrels and a ziplock bag full of bad WWB on a string, to illustrate why we wouldn't allow it to be used in our rental guns.

Edit: To be on topic, I have a couple of Kimbers that have worked out well for me, despite being chocked full of MIM and several of them having external extractors. I trust my TLE enough to carry it. It's fed everything I've ever thrown at it. I have also heard some nice things about S&W's 1911s, so you may want to consider them as well.

Quality magazines also make a big difference in reliability & performance. I am a big fan of Wilson magazines, although I am sure there are many other good brands out there. In general, I would not suggest going below a 4" barrel on a 1911s. There are some decent smaller models, but most of the troubles I have seen come from the sub-4" crowd.

A picture per your request:
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 4:30:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By JohnnyEgo:
Disclaimer: I have used and continue to use 1000s of rounds of WWB in my guns because I am cheap and haven't had a problem with it yet. That said...

The gun shop that I worked at has two bulged barrels and a ziplock bag full of bad WWB on a string, to illustrate why we wouldn't allow it to be used in our rental guns.

Edit: To be on topic, I have a couple of Kimbers that have worked out well for me, despite being chocked full of MIM and several of them having external extractors. I trust my TLE enough to carry it. It's fed everything I've ever thrown at it. I have also heard some nice things about S&W's 1911s, so you may want to consider them as well.

Quality magazines also make a big difference in reliability & performance. I am a big fan of Wilson magazines, although I am sure there are many other good brands out there. In general, I would not suggest going below a 4" barrel on a 1911s. There are some decent smaller models, but most of the troubles I have seen come from the sub-4" crowd.

A picture per your request:
www.johnnyego.com/bh2.jpg


Those are pretty damn nice looking.
Are they recent models or from a few years ago?
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:34:55 PM EST
I'd like to know if that TLE is a new or older as well...
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:19:31 PM EST
get a basic Kimber, i have an intry level Kimber (Custom II) with about 2200rounds through it. I whent through a time of trouble where i would have about 2-3 jams per mag with WWB. I still dont know what the problem was, was it too dirty was i limp wristing? Both are valid as this is my first fire-arm and i didnt know much at that time. But that aside i then shot about 1200rounds of Wolf through it with not a single hick-up. I carry my Kimber on a daily bassis and as such it has been smacked into walls, my truck door ect. and shows some perty good "battle injuries". Still fails to anything its not suposed to. A great fire-arm in my opinion.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 4:33:48 AM EST
I believe the newest model of TLE has gone back to the internal extractor. Mine are a couple of years old. I've never had a problem with my external extractor guns, and wouldn't hesistate to buy another if the price was right. However, all things being equal, I'd probably go with an internal extractor if I had to do it over again. Every manufacturer uses a slightly different approach to the external extractor, whereas the internal is pretty consistent across the brands, and a good bit easier to tune. Still, for the right price, I'd gladly purchase another Kimber or a S&W with external extractor.

Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:43:51 PM EST
I have really good luck with my cheap cast Rock Island 1911 and my Springfield GI.
The GI had a little teething that went away after a few 100rds. The Rock Island has been Glock reliable right out of the box.

I sold off a Kimber Classic Stainless, gun was ok but not super reliable. Still have my father's Colt which I've thrown money into and it still is not reliable. Damn thing shoots great though. I just can't justify spending $1k+ on a handgun.

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:33:22 PM EST
Get yourself a S&W 1911 PD. If for some reason it has to be sent back in for repair as long as you call their serivce department first they will sent you a prepaied shipping slip. The most common problem with the S&W 1911 PD's are soft safetys. They do have external extractors however (but they got the external extractors down pretty good). Plus there CS is top notch. I hope the wife will let me get one for Christmas this year.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:26:38 PM EST
dont be confused....get a llama and have fun
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:34:36 PM EST
i can recommend: Kimber (TLE II, great firearm, i got 2 of em) and SW 1911s

i have shot or owned a total of 4 of em, ~1500 rnds btw the 4 of em, only 2 malfunctions due to CMC mag feeding problems
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 5:27:44 PM EST
I find myself in the same position after four 1911 pistols (non of which were worth the powder it would take to blow them to Hell) which didn't work out, I found myself thinking I just got a few bad ones and I really should try another. After keeping an eye on the 1911 forums for the past few days I have decided I am not going to do this again.
I am sure there are some great 1911s, but I don't think I am destined to have one of them.
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