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Page Handguns » Kahr
Posted: 10/19/2006 4:42:44 AM EST
I have a PM-9 which is a great gun. I'd buy a 10 rnd version if it were available. A slightly bigger grip + the extra rnds would be nice.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 4:52:55 AM EST
Honestly would that not be what a Glock is? The attraction to the Kahr is that it is a single stack, otherwise they would be butting heads with a monolith and that is never a good business model. Find a niche and fill it, it would be like trying to out Wal-Mart Wal-Mart.

JMHO
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 4:54:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Honestly would that not be what a Glock is? The attraction to the Kahr is that it is a single stack, otherwise they would be butting heads with a monolith and that is never a good business model. Find a niche and fill it, it would be like trying to out Wal-Mart Wal-Mart.

JMHO


Well put. That's NOT what Kahr does.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 5:39:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2006 6:51:25 AM EST by Glox]
I disagree with you guys-totally. Cloning the Glock didn't seem to bother HK & the P2000 or Springfield & the XD, both great guns. How many AR-15 clones are there? AK clones? As for walmart, Target is doing a very good job. Toyota is the leader in hybrid vehicles, all the biggies are scrambling for hybrid models to put on the market. Sure- find a niche, then fill it. However, there is an opportunity cost by letting someone else sell something that you don't have. It's all about choice & competetion makes everyone better.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 7:03:32 AM EST
Let me try this again, Kahr is not a huge company with a massive R&D budget. This means that they can only afford to make models, that based on their design, that are in their niche and are profitable. Could they make make double stack pistols, sure but what would the profitability for them be? Unlike HK and Glock, Kahr does not have military or LEO contracts so they are limited to the civilian market. Why would I buy a $700 Khar double stack when I could by a G-19 for $500. What would the Kahr do that the G-19 would not do equally or better? It just does not make sense for Kahr to go down this road. Kahr pistols are pretty spendy for what they are but there is a demand for them in single stack because there is not a cheaper option from Glock. Again JMHO
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 8:18:49 AM EST
OK, let me try this again. Big companies, small companies alike cannot stand still & let their products mature. Once the market is mature, sales fall. Why would I buy a G19 when I can buy a Kel-Tec P11 for $250, or an EAA, CZ, etc, etc. all less $ than a Glock? If price was the only consideration, I wouldn't buy the Glock. For me, price is not the main reason I buy a particular gun. I happen to like Kahrs & I'm willing to pay the cost, just like you have done when you bought your Kahr. I sold all of my Glocks & do not miss them. Glock is coming out with a newer version of the 36 to compete with 1911s. How many 1911 clones do we really need? Companies ALWAYS have to reengineer, retool & come out with new products or someone else will. What would Kahr do if Glock cloned one of the Kahr pistols? Many folks I know consider Kahrs to be bugs-not main carry-including some very good instructors I have met over time. I've never seen an leo carry a Kahr, have you? A hicap Kahr would be great, jmho.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 8:48:50 AM EST
I understand what you are saying. It really has nothing to do with what would be cool or even desirable unfortunately. I would love to see Glock make a single stack 9mm. Kahr pistols do not fit my hands. The market is pretty well saturated with Glock, Sig, HK, S&W, CZ, Baretta and Ruger full size pistols. Kahr makes pistols that most other companies do not, it would most likely not be profitable for them to enter into the full size market. The core of their business is small, compact carry pieces, when business venture out away from their core the probability of failure goes up exponentially. Do some make it, you bet but most don't.

I am all for more manufactures to make new and innovative items to keep things interesting but one always has to ask, "Will this do the same thing that an existing product will do at an equal cost?" If the answer is yes, then what is the probability of profitability? If the answer is no, you still have to determine the profitability but you stand a better chance of finding another niche market where you can be the most profitable.

Everything comes down to the bottom line. Is this going to be profitable?
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 9:20:19 AM EST
Glox,

I'm in new product development and I clearly understand what you are saying. Expanding the product line to a double stack won't drive away my business as long as I can continue to buy the standard K9. I choose to carry a Kahr K9 because it fits my hand and it is the size I am willing to carry. I'm 5'6" 155 lbs. A larger gun would make me walk with a peg leg. A thin single stack Kahr with 7 rounds of 9mm is fine with me.

If Kahr didn't make what I needed then I would look elsewhere, as I'm sure you will when you want a double stack that they don't offer.

Link Posted: 10/19/2006 11:16:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2006 11:17:18 AM EST by dfariswheel]
When Kahr brought out the T series, I've had it in the back of my mind that they just might be thinking of bringing out a double stack polymer model and make a run at the police market.

A lot of police departments and individual officers use the Glock, but don't like or feel comfortable with the trigger.

One of Kahr's biggest pluses is the S&W DA revolver-like trigger. It's "safer" then the short Glock trigger, and a lot of people seem to prefer it over the Glock.

However, I suspect that Kahr will continue to work on dominating the min-gun market, but you sort of have to wonder where they can go from here, other than to different calibers.

Justin Moon has proven to be not only a genius at design, but also at judging the market.
It'll be interesting to see where he goes next.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 2:50:08 PM EST
Who would pay $150 more than a GLOCK for a GLOCK knock off with a longer trigger pull? The only reason I own a Kahr PM9 is because they don't make a GLOCK that small.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 4:35:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Who would pay $150 more than a GLOCK for a GLOCK knock off with a longer trigger pull? The only reason I own a Kahr PM9 is because they don't make a GLOCK that small.


You must know something we don't-a hicap Kahr would cost $150 more than a glock. I don't consider my P2000 or XD 45 inferior to a glock. I'm sure, as you suggested, glock influenced their designs, but I prefer the HK & Springfield to my former g23 & g21. Don't get me wrong-glocks are great guns, but not for everyone. I'd love to see a mini-glock, something similar to the PM-9. Bet it would have a 10 rnd capacity.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 5:40:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Glox:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Who would pay $150 more than a GLOCK for a GLOCK knock off with a longer trigger pull? The only reason I own a Kahr PM9 is because they don't make a GLOCK that small.


You must know something we don't-a hicap Kahr would cost $150 more than a glock.


I base that on the fact that the currently available Kahr pistols are about $150 more than a GLOCK. Around here, a new Kahr P9 or PM9 sells for $629 while a GLOCK 19 or 26 sells for $479-$489.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:30:31 PM EST
i think kahr has done a fine job and should stick with what they have already, and not become one of those companies that conform to all the other companies and what they are all doing. now if glock made a subcompact single stack model pistol in 9mm and .40 then the kahr company might have to watch out, but i like kahr right where they are and hope they don't make any ridiculious moves to be like anyone else. they have ther specialty and they fill a niche, that needs to be filled.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:48:11 AM EST
I bought my grilfriend the p9 and now I want to sell my g26 to by myself a p9 or a k9 I like glock but the kahr is realy nice.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 5:18:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 5:19:21 PM EST by cck]
i am a glock nut. but i've also owned three Kahrs and still own a pm9. The one and only reason I own a pm9 is because there is not a glock of the same size.

IF glock made a 26 size single stack for 500; Kahr would be out of business in six months! Glock would kill them on price and qverall quality.

Kahr has dominated this market for small powerful guns for one reason only. Glock refuses to make a single stack nine for whatever reason. And it has been very profitable for Kahr in the meantime.

Link Posted: 11/1/2006 7:10:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 7:16:21 PM EST by YaMaMa]
I found some exteded factory mags... just like the one that came with the PM9. They hold 7 rounds... The other ones that hold 10 on ebay are junk, I got two and they sucked so bad i sent them back. Here's a pic, it's kinda dark... and i have time to post pics now.

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