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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 11/3/2001 9:13:22 AM EDT
I am trying to make a descision. I am about ready to get rid of my 1911. I love it but I REALLY love my Sigs. I have owned so many diff handguns that this is tought for me to figure out what to replace the 1911 with. I have owned almost every H&K and Glock made but my waife has her Glocks and I am more of an H&K / Sig guy. I love my good old American 1911 but dang, the Germans have it right when it comes to guns. OK heres the situation.

You have your AR/AK/Shotgun/whatever long gun you like with you in your vehicle. You find yourself in the middle of an all out shooting being carried out be what appears to be a group of terrorist/badguys. You cant retreat. Vehicle is disabled. You expend you long gun ammo. The police arrive but cant get to you because they are being held at bay by the BG's. Some of the BG's are moving up on you. You are down to your handgun. Here's the question. What handgun would you want and what caliber. No high cap mags. 10 rnd PC mags. Would you rather have 10 rounds of .40 or 9mm. ???? What are your thoughts. I am using your feedback in my descision.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 9:27:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 9:29:57 AM EDT
Yeah, I can shoo them all the same. I am concerned more with gun brand and model first, caliber 2nd.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 12:36:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 1:42:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2001 1:45:30 PM EDT by Hawkeye1]
Well, I have also owned almost every Glock made. My wife is a HUGE Glock freak. Thats all she owns. Kinda wanted to stick with DA guns since all my others are Sigs. Guess I could go back to another G23. Had an awesome one. I have about narrowed it down to a an H&K USP 45C, 40C, and a G23.
Lordtrader, exactly what I was thinking in the above scenerio. Last ditch protection and hope that help could get to me or to just yell BANZI! and cover a mad dash retreat.

So that there is no double up, I guess I shold mention that I already have a Sig Pro in .40, a .40 P226, a P245, and a P220. Just looking to replace the 1911 if/when I get rid of it.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:36:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 4:43:45 PM EDT
Havent sold it yet. Just bouncing ideas around. I have 2 other .45's as mentioned and will most likely repleace it with some other brand of .45. Again though, just wanting ideas before I make a decision.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 4:45:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 5:31:24 PM EDT
I think Kevin almost covered what I was going to say. If the you couldn't take out the bad guys with your rifle then the only good the pistol will do is for you to shoot yourself since you shot so poorly with your rifle.

Shit if I couldn't do it with the AR and the 300rnds I keep with me then I think I would need to shoot myself. Or go looking for a 50 caliber machine gun.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 5:35:11 PM EDT
As far as your question goes I think that is easy. Is there anything else but a .40.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:31:38 AM EDT
Thanks for the thoughts. I wasnt really meaning to continue fighting it out with a handgun, more like waiting behind cover and if a BG rushed you popping him when he got to you, hoping the the GG's could get to you in time.
I have 170 rnds with my AR in my truck but I am thinking worst case scenario in running out of ammo. In basic in the Army I was doing 300 meter head shots with my silver M16 that rattled like a junk truck it was so worn out. Went 40/40 everytime I went on the range as I was raised shooting my dads old Colt SP1 so I am perfectly comfortable with my shot placement ability's with my AR's. I'm just thinking in a "whatif worst case scenario". Plan for the worst hope for the best kind of thing. Have seen Murphy's Law in action too many times.
What I am gathering so far is that most of you are favoring the .40. I happened to love the .40. So lets say I will get the H&K 45C later and get another .40 for now. H&K 40C or Glock 23??????? I have owned and love both so I HATE these kinds of descisions.
Again thanks for all the input, I was just trying to provoke your thoughts while trying to answer a personal question at the same time.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:22:48 AM EDT
Is there anything else but a GLOCK.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:36:35 AM EDT
Thats what my Wife keeps saying. She is a Glock freak. I admit, I do kinda miss my old 23. Was a great carry gun and I had 3 high caps for it.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:41:08 AM EDT
In the words of Col. J Cooper, "The biggest handgun that you can shoot well"
I have a friend who could most likely head shot them all with a 22, & completely miss with a 45.
I like 9mm +p+, & after you kill a couple the rest will keep their heads down.
Which model? the one that feels best in your hand, that you have faith in.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 8:17:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 9:33:06 AM EDT
Glock.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 7:31:59 AM EDT
Well, heres the deal. My wife has 3 Glocks so we arent Glock poor. All mine are Sigs. My P228 9mm that I had and loved so dear was stolen. My buddy at my gun shop has a new P228 in stock and knows someone who has some high caps that he can get me. The one other I am considering is a 9mm Sig Pro. Little bit cheaper but no high caps.
I do have 2 Sig .45's and 2 Sig .40's so I have my big bore fix. By Sticking with the Sig over say Glock or H&K, I can use all my existing holsters.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 5:40:55 PM EDT
Hey Hawkeye, doesn't the saying go something like "behind every good man, there is a smarter woman". You should listen to you wife.

Link Posted: 11/5/2001 8:59:24 PM EDT

Okay, here me through: Take that space that would be taken up by your pistol and spare mags, and instead take 2 or 3 mags for your AR/AK and put them in place of the pistol.

I know, I am a genius.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 12:04:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HighCaliber:

Okay, here me through: Take that space that would be taken up by your pistol and spare mags, and instead take 2 or 3 mags for your AR/AK and put them in place of the pistol.

I know, I am a genius.



Awww sheet foo! Someone give this boy a medal! He's frickin' amazing.... I figure a Beta-C mag is about the size of a pistol and a couple hi-caps so uh.... I'll just stash my Beta-C in the car along with what I like to call my "Trunk Buddy"(Colt M4 with an Aimpoint Comp M and Sure-Fire Millenium fore-end) I pitty the foo!.

Link Posted: 11/6/2001 12:48:12 PM EDT
LOL!
Not a bad idea about the mags.
I already have a drawer full of unopened new in the wrapper 30 rnd GI's. The Beta Mag is an idea though.
Unfortunatly I went by the store on the way home yesterday and looked at the P228 and held it. Now I remember why I loved that thing so much. Looks like thats the direction I'm headed.
By the way, DarkHelmet, You are not the only one with that idea. I have been rotating my Dissipator and Carbine in my truck. They fit perfect under the back seat.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 12:50:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Hey Hawkeye, doesn't the saying go something like "behind every good man, there is a smarter woman". You should listen to you wife.




LOL!!! Yeah I know. Its my dang fault for introducing them to her. Her favorite alltime movie line is from U.S. Marshals.

"Get rid of that nickel plated sissy pistol and get yourself a Glock"
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 4:24:32 PM EDT
Tommy Lee Jones has a way with words doesn't he.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:34:16 AM EDT
Yes he does at that.

VA, have no fear. Even though I am getting the 9mm, my 2 .40's will be right with me still. And my 2 .45's as well. I am a huge .40 fan. my very first handgun back in 1991 was a .40. I will probably end up getting 1 Glock and 1 H&K to put back in the mix, just so I can have them. Maybe another Glock 23 and a compact H&K .45.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 9:48:51 AM EDT
Get a Browning Hi-Power, in 9mm if you have to, .40 if you can find one. It has all the up side of your 1911 without any of the down side.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 5:28:33 PM EDT
Hang on to the 1911 and use it. Sounds like you are trying to talk yourself out of it. At this point you are stress firing and I would rather have the nice trigger pull of the 1911. A basic 1911 is a combat weapon, proven and tested, why not use it?
Link Posted: 11/11/2001 3:44:17 AM EDT
Delta Elite 10mm

1911 style

more punch than the 9, 40, 45.

Pinkerton OUT!
Link Posted: 11/11/2001 12:38:53 PM EDT
I'd feel naked with anything BUT the M1911. If I could have any pistol with me it would be my trusty Sprinfield Armory Gov't model loaded with 9 rounds of 185gr Cor-bons. Wonderfully controllable, potent, reliable as a hammer. What more could one ask for?
Link Posted: 11/11/2001 3:02:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
I'd feel naked with anything BUT the M1911. If I could have any pistol with me it would be my trusty Sprinfield Armory Gov't model loaded with 9 rounds of 185gr Cor-bons. Wonderfully controllable, potent, reliable as a hammer. What more could one ask for?



A Glock 22 loaded with 15 155gr. Gold Dots.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 1:42:14 PM EDT
The 1911 in 45ACP is my personal choice, simply because I have been shooting it for over 25 years and in a stressful situation (which your hypothetical situation appears to be), I want to have the gun I know like the back of my hand. If you are dead-set on getting rid of the 1911, you want to choose something with and exceptional reputation for reliability and practice for many months before you want to bet your life on it. Just my $0.02.
Link Posted: 11/17/2001 4:14:22 AM EDT
Well I am getting my new Sig P228 today. Found a way to do it AND keep my 1911. So all is well.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 3:14:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lordtrader:
However I am a really lousy pistol shot. So I am at that point gonna be using the pistol to cover my retreat cause at that point I am gonna be welcoming death. That is how bad of a pistol shot I am.



Two words for you, mi amigo!

THUNDER RANCH!

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 3:17:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye1:
Well I am getting my new Sig P228 today. Found a way to do it AND keep my 1911. So all is well.



Awesome! Unless you have no other choice, you should NEVER sell a gun. I certainly won't unless there is absolutely no other options, up to and including selling my organs.

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 3:29:51 PM EDT
I got it and its great. Its used but I think the previous owner bought it, loaded it, stuck it in a holster, and shoved it under the seat of his car. I think it might have 50 rounds through it. It was FILTHY! Insides were all gacked up with this nasty grease like substance that resembles some kind of lubricant mixed with dust, dirt, carbon, and God knows what else. Its a nice thick dark greyish siver paste. The action felt horrible and gritty. Gun itself is fine though. Got 2 high caps with it that look like they just came out of the wrapper. Its all apart right now down to the last pin getting a thorough de-crapping. Fixing to start putting everything back together and hope I dont have any leftover parts. This was a great deal to. Saving now for that 2nd P220!! My other one is getting lonely.
Link Posted: 11/21/2001 6:32:02 PM EDT
I would take my Browning Hi-Power. I think it is the most under-rated pistol out there.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 5:19:13 PM EDT
I think one has to remember, That a handgun is nothing more than a survival kit, meant allow you to stay alive long enough to get you hands on a long weapon, Tactical Rifle or Shotgun.

As for my own taste in dire emergency jump and run kits, Here are some of my personal thoughts on the subject.

First and foremost, HAVE A GOOD TACTICAL BELT RIG. Not having one is probably why you ran out of long weapon ammo in the first place. Remember that you are not building a law enforcement rig for everyday carry in public. This is a rig that is meant to be placed in a soft sided innocent looking civilian brief case and pulled out in times of dire emergency, and meant to afford you maximum fire power for both you long weapon and handgun.

My own kit is made up of a SW99 .40 with a leather DeSantis holster and in the brief case, A Uncle Mikes Safety Botton 2 inch belt W/ Bianchi military flap holster, 2 Bianchi military mag holders W/4 spare 10 rd Mags, A pouch W/ M5 combat light, 2 Uncle Mikes 6 rd 12 gauge shell holders, with a mix of 6 slugs and 6 00 buck, A Gerber Multi tool, and about 8 belt keepers to secure everything in place. I also keep a Blackhawk Shotshell Bandoleir with anouther 55 rd's of 12 gauge. A mix of Buck and slug. Just remember in a real firefight, you will be lucky if you live long enough to fire a quarter of that ammo load.

As for long gun, Having owned everthing from Bushmasters to Steyr AUG's, I prefer the Simple 12 Gauge Riot gun for most Urban Social Problems. My current favorite started out Life as a plain jane Charles Daly Turkish 870 copy W/ 18" Barrel, $199 retail and has had an extensive face lift, provided by the good people at Scattergun Tech/Wilson Combat and Choate Machine Tool. The M5 Combat light can be mounted on the Shotgun foregrip in the 9 oclock position as well as mounted on the rail of the SW99.

While there are many, who will tell you that you must have a 5.56 or 7.62 for this sort of situation. Just remember that there are some guys out there, Who are pretty salty with the good old Tactical 12 Gauge. :}
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