Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/3/2005 12:10:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 12:12:00 AM EDT by Digitalpunk]
I'm about to start carrying and was wondering which is better in 9mm. They're pretty much my only options right now as they're all my local place carries. Also, which bullet weight (non +P) should I go with? Thanks


Digital
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:43:39 AM EDT
For none +p , go with 147gr. I really like the Gold Dot bullet, and carry the 124gr+p version in my Glocks.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:02:07 AM EDT
I've seen phenominal real world performance from the .45 ACP 230 Grn Hydra Shok. It kills bad guys dead. So, I am supremely confident in that load. But frankly, just because a bullet design performs well in a specific caliber doesn't mean that it performs well in all calibers.

What I'm trying to say is, that I can't really answer your question because I'm a .45 ACP guy.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:36:50 AM EDT
I would reccomend the Gold Dot as I feel its the best defensive handgun bullet out there. I carry Black Hills 124grn +P Gold Dots in my Beretta and thier performance is excellent. The Hydrashok is still an excellent bullet, but is an antiquated design. The Hydrashoks cavity can fill up with wood or clothing and cause it to overpenetrate and not expand. The Hydrashok is an excellent round when performing as designed, but its expansion is not as consistant as others, including the Gold Dot. Keep in mind, the Gold Dot has a bonded core which will allow it to maintain its integrity and penetrate more than a Hydrashok. The 147 grn weight will compound this and could lead to possible over penetration or collateral damage. I am not sure of any 115 grn loads which have passed the IWBA tests. 124grn and heavier is the way to go in the 9mm. I would reccomend the 124 grn Gold Dot or the 135 grn Hydrashok. I like the 135grn Hydrashok as its a little heavier and the stats aren't that much worse than the 124grn loads. plus its a "low recoil" load which will allow you to make rapid hits without too much trouble. The Hydrashok and the Gold Dot are my two favorite bullets, but right now in my gun there are Gold Dots, the bonded core. uniform and consistant expansion in different mediums and +p energy all are big selling points to me. Check out the firearms tactical institute for more indepth testing.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:22:26 AM EDT
I did some research on 9mm Luger cartridges for defense, and it appears the top performer is the Winchester Ranger T 147 gr JHP.

Second up would be the Speer Gold Dot 147 gr HP, followed by +P 124 gr and the regular 124 gr JHP.

From Old Painless's pics it appears the +P 124gr bullet doesn't expand as nicely as the non +P 124 gr JHP, but there are tradeoffs.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:25:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 3:25:59 AM EDT by Charging_Handle]
For 9mm, I much prefer the Gold Dot. I like the 124 gr +P the best. But for non +P, the 124 gr standard and 147 gr aren't bad.

But to be honest, I'd much prefer the 124 gr +P Gold Dot, the Winchester Ranger 127 gr +P+ or the Winchester Ranger 147 gr. If you can look around and find one of these, that's what I recommend most.

But whatever you get, realize that practice and the ability to put the rounds on target matter more than the ammo itself. I'd rather put an FMJ through a bad guy's heart than a wonder bullet that misses. Know what I mean?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:06:32 AM EDT
This may help.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 7:05:17 AM EDT
Whichever you shoot most accurately the quickest - everything else is marketing hype.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 7:59:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Whichever you shoot most accurately the quickest - everything else is marketing hype.



Best info posted yet...

115grn 9mm FMJ is the best round if that is what you shoot the best.

Place the shot, and .004" difference in expansion won't make a damn difference.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:13:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Whichever 147 grain load you shoot most accurately the quickest - everything else is marketing hype.



JMHO.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:24:26 AM EDT
BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CIVILIAN USE!
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:28:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GomerPyle:
This may help.



Good useful link! Thanks, Srigs
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:51:01 AM EDT
I like GD +P 124gr.

Why no +P? What pistol? What bbl length?


Originally Posted By Marksman14:

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Whichever you shoot most accurately the quickest - everything else is marketing hype.



Best info posted yet...

115grn 9mm FMJ is the best round if that is what you shoot the best.

Place the shot, and .004" difference in expansion won't make a damn difference.



I disagree. A decrease in accuracy-under-stress of 10% is far outweighed by an increase in permanent wound cavity of 100% (say for ball vs +P JHP; where are you getting that .004" number???). I would wager that very few people on this board are good enough shooters that ammunition has much effect on accuracy when shooting fast a close range. Hell, if it does, you're shooting way too slow for a self defense situation. Hotter ammo may take some practice to shoot well, but unless you're 80lbs and 4"2', you can handle 9mm +P with no problem.

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 9:56:23 AM EDT
Thanks for all the info. The gun is a Glock 19. I know it can handle +P loads, I just don't want to be running them through my gun all the time. Who knows, after everyone's input I might just end up using +P loads anyway. Are there any good places online to order handgun ammo at a decent price?


Digital
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 10:15:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Digitalpunk:
Thanks for all the info. The gun is a Glock 19. I know it can handle +P loads, I just don't want to be running them through my gun all the time. Who knows, after everyone's input I might just end up using +P loads anyway. Are there any good places online to order handgun ammo at a decent price?


Digital



I use them in my G19. Get much smaller than that, and +Ps are required for reliable expansion/penetration from the shorter bbls. Honestly, I don't even notice the difference in recoil compared to crappy WWB 115gr FMJ that I use for practice. I've never seen any evidence that 9mm +Ps cause unnatural wear on a Glock. And once you're paying for good defensive ammo, the +P doesn't cost any more.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 10:25:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CIVILIAN USE!



I cant recall a productive post from you in the last six months... post whore!

Gold Dots for me... I use the +P version because while it may slightly overexpand in my 4" pistol, it works perfect in my 3" one. Both guns run it reliably, so why not kill two birds with one stone.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:47:07 PM EDT
i've always used Hydra-shoks, just wish they made em w/ +p

lately, i've been hearing that Hydra-shoks are old tech and gold dots are a hell of a lot better....
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 7:25:12 PM EDT
Winchester Ranger T 147 gr JHP....
I do not see the need to use +P rounds. Why beat up the gun. The Ranger aka Black Talon is what my PD issued me, and what I prefer.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 9:39:32 AM EDT
Ranger RA9T 147 grain exceeds the terminal effectiveness of the 124 non +P Gold Dot which is better than the non +P Hydrashock (which tends to have issues cloggging on heavy clothing)

I reccomend the Ranger RA9T which is what I use in my pistol for carry.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 3:12:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:
I like GD +P 124gr.

Why no +P? What pistol? What bbl length?


Originally Posted By Marksman14:

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Whichever you shoot most accurately the quickest - everything else is marketing hype.



Best info posted yet...

115grn 9mm FMJ is the best round if that is what you shoot the best.

Place the shot, and .004" difference in expansion won't make a damn difference.



I disagree. A decrease in accuracy-under-stress of 10% is far outweighed by an increase in permanent wound cavity of 100% (say for ball vs +P JHP; where are you getting that .004" number???). I would wager that very few people on this board are good enough shooters that ammunition has much effect on accuracy when shooting fast a close range. Hell, if it does, you're shooting way too slow for a self defense situation. Hotter ammo may take some practice to shoot well, but unless you're 80lbs and 4"2', you can handle 9mm +P with no problem.




Got that number directly from my ass.

Just saying, the difference between one JHP round to the next is minimal. Pick a well known brand, and they will all do the same damn thing.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:32:01 PM EDT
I have a preference for Gold Dots or Ranger SXT's. Im not a fan of +p in my .45 but would consider the 124 +p's for 9mm to try and match military 9mm Nato balistics.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 9:12:11 PM EDT
I keep 124gr. GDHP in my 9mm.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:59:59 PM EDT

Just saying, the difference between one JHP round to the next is minimal. Pick a well known brand, and they will all do the same damn thing.

That pretty much sums it up. The differences between the rounds is small, and in order to take advantage of any difference you would have to know in advance what was going to happen, and if you could do that you wouldn't be there, right? BTW, a steady diet of +P ammo won't cause any problems with your Glock, but if that is a worry for you you can still carry them for defense and use standard pressure ammo for most of your practice.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:27:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 8:24:25 PM EDT by kingcleophus]
.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 4:33:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By darm441:

Just saying, the difference between one JHP round to the next is minimal. Pick a well known brand, and they will all do the same damn thing.

That pretty much sums it up. The differences between the rounds is small, and in order to take advantage of any difference you would have to know in advance what was going to happen, and if you could do that you wouldn't be there, right? BTW, a steady diet of +P ammo won't cause any problems with your Glock, but if that is a worry for you you can still carry them for defense and use standard pressure ammo for most of your practice.



Wrong about there not being any difference between JHP rounds. Hydra Shoks have a well documented tendency to clog when shot through fabric, which turns them into FMJs. This is a picture of a Hyrda Shok I shot through two layers of cotton t-shirt fabric while doing some testing.

Gold Dots are far less prone to clogging in fabric testing, meaning they will actually expand when shot through clothing. With the Hydra Shoks you can never be sure.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 6:41:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By darm441:

Just saying, the difference between one JHP round to the next is minimal. Pick a well known brand, and they will all do the same damn thing.

That pretty much sums it up. The differences between the rounds is small, .

that may be true for the top of the line HPs like Gold Dots or Rangers, but there is a huge difference b/w the premium defensive ammo and the cheaper bulk packs of HPs you get at places like Walmart.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 7:55:07 AM EDT
What you said may be true for factory loads ( yes I know thats what he's asking about) , but I dont think it's the Bullets . I've loaded Honadys Bulk 115gr HP (nothing special bullets) Load them hot . The "tests" Ive made (without Denim) into wetlap show that at gunfight ranges they make a hell of a mess . The perm. cavity is about what you might expect from a .357Mag. , but of course not as deep . Each one did about the same thing . We were at the upper end of the listed load data BUT not over all , around 1100fps MV and 21 feet they were wicked .

Over the years it seems to me that there is a velocity where things start happening with HP's right around 1100 to 1200 MV . Slower than that , ".380 and .25 ACP's" .are about worthless as far as mushruming goes . Haven't played w/ .45ACP HP's So I really dont know , cause 230 FMJ is just fine with me . RL
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:57:03 PM EDT
Chevy or Ford?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:05:55 PM EDT
As others have said, practice so you can put the rounds in the right place, then they all work. Also, your pistol may have its own taste for ammo. I would throw in any Winchester Silvertip (actually, there are only two loadings in 9 - 115gr and 147gr). Silvertip seems to be almost the universal workhorse as it works in anything.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:50:53 PM EDT
I use the 124grn Hydrashok as it is my duty ammo. I always try and use what the local PD is using, just incase some lawyer ever tries to use it against me.
Top Top