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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/6/2005 10:48:24 PM EDT
I was kind of eyeing some of the Springfield 1911s. I am disappointed that they are made in Brazil. Is it really cost prohibitive to make guns in the USA?

Thanks,

Steve
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 5:00:12 AM EDT
Imbel knows how to make firearms.
Simple put, I would Rather buy the pistol if it only said Imbel on the side. At least then, I know that it would not be loaded with MIM parts (hence that special USA side that you so dearly speak of).
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 4:14:31 PM EDT
The guns are fitted & finished in the states. Answering your question, I'd say add about $100 to the mil-spec models, $200 to the upper end models, IMO.
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 6:31:39 PM EDT
if SA were to operate their own forge, I'd expect to see prices go up to close to what Les Baer and Wilson are charging. Imbel has been making firearms for a long time....and they got it right! Don't worry about a 'made in Brazil' stamp....it's a very good name.
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 1:06:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2005 1:07:36 AM EDT by GenghisKhan]
Imbel makes good stuff.

EDIT: I wish I had one of their FALs.
Link Posted: 7/17/2005 8:59:30 PM EDT
Where does it say made in brazil? My trp dosent say that... Maybe I am not looking hard enough
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 8:51:59 PM EDT
I think it is stamped into the frame in front of the trigger guard.

WIZZO

BTW I would like a 100% USA-Made Springfield if it were forged parts if it would only add $100-$200. I think that would be one hell of a deal.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 5:29:33 PM EDT
I'm super happy with mine
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 10:10:43 PM EDT
"NM" prefix SN Springfields are machined in the USA, although I think the raw forgings still come from Brazil. This includes most of the upper end models such as the TRP, Trophy Match, etc. I've heard of some regular Loaded models like this as well, never seen one in person though.

So, to answer your question, my Trophy Match cost $880.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 2:59:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sigurd:
"NM" prefix SN Springfields are machined in the USA, although I think the raw forgings still come from Brazil. This includes most of the upper end models such as the TRP, Trophy Match, etc. I've heard of some regular Loaded models like this as well, never seen one in person though.

So, to answer your question, my Trophy Match cost $880.



my Mil Spec has the NM prefix as does my TRP Operator.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:57:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 10:00:27 AM EDT by semi45]
Kimber's base model and Springfield's loaded model are pretty close in price, at least from what I see. As you move up in models I don't really see a "price difference" between the two companies in comparative models. That's a IMHO since there are so many models.

What seperates the two is the cheaper mil-spec models from Springfield and none from Kimber.
I doubt Kimber could produce a mil-spec that cheap.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:27:46 PM EDT
My MC Operator is NM marked.

I could care less anyways. I'd rather have a quality forging than an American made questionable casting.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:52:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By utahcybercowboy:
I was kind of eyeing some of the Springfield 1911s. I am disappointed that they are made in Brazil. Is it really cost prohibitive to make guns in the USA?

Thanks,

Steve



I have a Charles Daly Hi Power Clone and the frame is made in the states and I believe the assembly takes place here as well. It comes with XS sights that I would think would have to be put on the pistol here. My point is my front sight sight keeps drifting left and I have to send it back to the factory for a second time. I would trust my Brazilian made 1911s over that clone any day of the week.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:08:03 PM EDT
The thing that bothers me about Brazilian guns is that the country is very antigun. They have a referendum coming up to ban private ownership of all guns. It cracks me up that their president is so antigun and willing to do anything antigun that the UN wants but he is interested in maintaining the manufaturing of firearms for export.

I am half Brazilian and just returned from Brazil last week. I love Brazil but I really think we are better served supporting American businesses. Not just American importers of guns but American manufactures of guns.

Does anyone have a list of American manufatured 1911's? I want 100% American no imports. I know this will cost more but I only buy 2 or 3 guns a year so it is not a big deal.

Thanks,

Steve
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 3:59:27 PM EDT
If the Brazillian frames are good enough for the FBI Hostage Rescue Team and regional SWAT teams then they're good enough for all of us!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 1:45:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
Where does it say made in brazil? My trp dosent say that... Maybe I am not looking hard enoughhr


I have seen some with the markings behind the panels.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:20:34 PM EDT
My TRP does not say it either.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 12:46:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By indyshooter:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
Where does it say made in brazil? My trp dosent say that... Maybe I am not looking hard enough



I have seen some with the markings behind the panels.



Behind the grip panels it will say "F I Brazil" (Finished In Brazil - This is the importation mark).

Most "NM" prefix serial numbers will not have this, since they're finished in the states.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 3:18:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:
If the Brazillian frames are good enough for the FBI Hostage Rescue Team and regional SWAT teams then they're good enough for all of us!



Those are the "Professional Series" 100% USA made in the custom shop.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 5:13:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 5:18:29 PM EDT by Zakk_Wylde_470]

Originally Posted By alwaystryin:

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:
If the Brazillian frames are good enough for the FBI Hostage Rescue Team and regional SWAT teams then they're good enough for all of us!



Those are the "Professional Series" 100% USA made in the custom shop.



Does that include actually forging the frames?

ETA: No, it doesn't. All Springfield frames (and slides, actually) are forged in Brazil. While the Pro model might be 100% hand-built here, the raw forgings for the frame/slide still come from Brazil. Not that it matters to me *strokes TRP*
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:17:17 PM EDT
My stainless Loaded has an "N" prefix serial number and has Imbel Brazil on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard.
The prefix is "N" only, not "NM".
Jim
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:20:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
Where does it say made in brazil? My trp dosent say that... Maybe I am not looking hard enough



Thier XDs are remrked Croat guns did you think the 1911 required an American to make it.

To the rest.

Unions and costs of labor and they probably get around enough tariffs to make it further viable. Thank unions for outsourcing.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:34:35 PM EDT
My Milspec has the NM serial number prefix as well, and no made in Brazil markings on the dust cover.

The GI model I had dd have the made in.. mark.

I had a GI model and liked it, but wanted the lowered ejection port and high sights of the Milspec. I had a Colt 1991A1 model for a week. The SA's are much nicer than the 1991's. The 1991 had machining marks on the exterior of the frame at the relief rear of the trigger. The SA's were nice and smooth there and everywhere else.

Colt's not exactly catering to public sales, so they're not much different than the Brazilian Gov't.

I bought the SA because of the forged frame. I had looked at Dan Wesson's but the Minor I was looking at had a cast frame as well, and it just isn't as clean as the SA.

Link Posted: 9/17/2005 3:22:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 3:24:01 PM EDT by olds442tyguy]
Earlier this week, someone explained to me in detail how it works.

Non NM marked guns enter the country with a serial number as they're finished enough to be considered complete. Fitting and assembly is still done at Springfield.

NM serial numbered guns enter as incomplete frames and slides, that require no serial number. Springfield still has to machine them, but it's apparent no one knows the exact percentage of completion SA gets them in. The guy told me it could be an 80%, or it could just be a raw forged blank. He said the same goes for the slides.

I will admit I'm not sure if the source is credible, but that would explain why some are not marked "Made in Brazil". He said there are still accounts of forging documentation markings even on some NM numbered guns.
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