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Posted: 12/6/2010 2:18:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Save up for an HK45C or if you can't wait.........................................a Glock.
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Posted: 12/7/2010 6:31:40 AM EDT
[#2]
No BTDT here, but a lot of years of trigger time with a lot of different weapons.
When I went looking for a new .45 carry gun, this was one of the options that I investigated. I got to tear a used one down at a gun shop for a close inspection. The internals of the Kahr seemed fragile to me for a large caliber gun. Also the trigger was very light for a no external safety type pistol. Cool for the range, but not so much for in my waistband. I eventually went with the Glock 36. I'm happy with it. Really happy. Did I mention I'm really happy with it? |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 7:09:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
No BTDT here, but a lot of years of trigger time with a lot of different weapons. When I went looking for a new .45 carry gun, this was one of the options that I investigated. I got to tear a used one down at a gun shop for a close inspection. The internals of the Kahr seemed fragile to me for a large caliber gun. Also the trigger was very light for a no external safety type pistol. Cool for the range, but not so much for in my waistband. I eventually went with the Glock 36. I'm happy with it. Really happy. Did I mention I'm really happy with it? Good for you, but I wouldn't take a Glock if you gave it to me. The grip is shaped specifically to torture my lower palm. I can't afford a higher end 1911, and Kahr is about the only other game besides 1911 and Glock for single stack 45 ACP autos. I know that Kahr's trigger is light, but it has a very long pull length. |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 9:32:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Have you looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 45 Compact? Sounds like it might fit your needs well.
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Posted: 12/7/2010 10:02:02 AM EDT
[#5]
The Kahr is priced/billed as a tier one system, but it isn't. NYPD dropped the K9 because of multiple issues. I like the way they carry, but I think the triggers suck and I don't like the reliability that I have seen.
More over, I don't like the freaked-out religous weirdos that manufacture them. |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 10:18:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Have you looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 45 Compact? Sounds like it might fit your needs well.   |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 12:02:25 PM EDT
[#7]
I have yet to see any well known instructor run a Kahr as their primary gun.
I tend to see Glocks, M&Ps, the RARE Sig and very pricey, tricked-out 1911's That should be a clue. 
After running H&K USPs in .45 (compact and full size) as well as a Sig 226 in 9mm, I'm an all-9mm Glock and j-frame user at this point after taking lots of formal training classes. Take care and stay safe, Mike |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 12:36:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Have you looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 45 Compact? Sounds like it might fit your needs well. I have one. I'm thinking of trading it on the Kahr. Nice pistol, a bit too fat in the grip to suit. I'd be a happy panda if they'd make a single stack version. |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 12:40:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://s7.tinypic.com/ortfzr_th.jpg
Have you looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 45 Compact? Sounds like it might fit your needs well. See where the shooter's thumb is resting? If I grip my M&P45C that way, I struggle to reach the trigger. That's my issue. Double stack guns are too fat. I can't afford a high end, quality 1911 which would also be heavy as hell. Besides 1911s and Kahrs, I don't have any quality single stack options. |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 1:35:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://s7.tinypic.com/ortfzr_th.jpg
Have you looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 45 Compact? Sounds like it might fit your needs well. See where the shooter's thumb is resting? If I grip my M&P45C that way, I struggle to reach the trigger. That's my issue. Double stack guns are too fat. I can't afford a high end, quality 1911 which would also be heavy as hell. Besides 1911s and Kahrs, I don't have any quality single stack options. What about something from the S&W 4500 series? You can still find them here and there and would take one of those over a Kahr any day. |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 1:49:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://s7.tinypic.com/ortfzr_th.jpg
Have you looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 45 Compact? Sounds like it might fit your needs well. See where the shooter's thumb is resting? If I grip my M&P45C that way, I struggle to reach the trigger. That's my issue. Double stack guns are too fat. I can't afford a high end, quality 1911 which would also be heavy as hell. Besides 1911s and Kahrs, I don't have any quality single stack options. What about something from the S&W 4500 series? You can still find them here and there and would take one of those over a Kahr any day. Maybe. I can't find any locally, already looked, and I'll tell you straight up I hate DA/SA with a passion, but I might be in a corner where I'm going to have to learn to live with it. Just rememberd, Ruger has the P90 and P345 single stacks. Don't really know anything about them though. |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 2:19:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://s7.tinypic.com/ortfzr_th.jpg
Have you looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 45 Compact? Sounds like it might fit your needs well. See where the shooter's thumb is resting? If I grip my M&P45C that way, I struggle to reach the trigger. That's my issue. Double stack guns are too fat. I can't afford a high end, quality 1911 which would also be heavy as hell. Besides 1911s and Kahrs, I don't have any quality single stack options. What about something from the S&W 4500 series? You can still find them here and there and would take one of those over a Kahr any day. Maybe. I can't find any locally, already looked, and I'll tell you straight up I hate DA/SA with a passion, but I might be in a corner where I'm going to have to learn to live with it. Just rememberd, Ruger has the P90 and P345 single stacks. Don't really know anything about them though. If you dislike DA/SA that might not be the pistol for you. Have you entertained the thought of a Sig P220 Carry DAK or SAO? It seems to meet most of your requirements, 45, Single Stack, and not DA/SA. Never owned a Ruger handgun so can't really comment on them, but from those who own them they seem to at least be very reliable. |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 5:55:58 PM EDT
[#13]
I have the Kahr CW45. I don't have a single issue with it.
I'm not an instructor, but aren't you looking for a CCW gun? Who cares what an instructor is carrying OWB.. The CW45 is a thin as hell, single stack 6+1 .45acp. And it's probably in your price range. One benefit is that you can use 1911 officer's mags (slightly modified) and have a totally flush fitting mag for your carry gun. It saves about 1/4 inch off the grip length.  |
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Posted: 12/7/2010 8:58:27 PM EDT
[#14]
khar is just down the list...after (similar price range), of glock and SW MP
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Posted: 12/7/2010 9:31:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://s7.tinypic.com/ortfzr_th.jpg
Have you looked into the Smith and Wesson M&P 45 Compact? Sounds like it might fit your needs well. See where the shooter's thumb is resting? If I grip my M&P45C that way, I struggle to reach the trigger. That's my issue. Double stack guns are too fat. I can't afford a high end, quality 1911 which would also be heavy as hell. Besides 1911s and Kahrs, I don't have any quality single stack options. Look for a P220 compact or a used P245. They're both single stacks. |
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Posted: 12/8/2010 3:19:57 AM EDT
[#16]
1,000 rounds down range on my PM45 no issues. The gun is great for carry in the wasit a little big for pocket carry, it can be done but draw time sucks, 200 round rang sessions can be a little tough.
Rather have a karh on my hip than a glock at home. Way to many people purchase doublestacks and full size guns for carry, only to leave them home. Most common reasons I hear is its to heavy or to big. They do not want to adjust clothing and purchase quailty belts and holsters for the task. the Karh line and other Single Stack thin frames really do not require any adjustment in dress. |
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Posted: 12/8/2010 3:22:27 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I have yet to see any well known instructor run a Kahr as their primary gun. I tend to see Glocks, M&Ps, the RARE Sig and very pricey, tricked-out 1911's That should be a clue.
After running H&K USPs in .45 (compact and full size) as well as a Sig 226 in 9mm, I'm an all-9mm Glock and j-frame user at this point after taking lots of formal training classes. Take care and stay safe, Mike Yeah the clue is this a kahr is a carry gun not something for extended range sessions, esp in 45. |
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Posted: 12/8/2010 4:45:42 AM EDT
[#18]
The Kahr P45 is a great gun. I had one. The grip is like no other and it conceals like no other .45 out there. The ONLY reason I got rid of it was to concentrate on a single line/system: GLOCK.
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Posted: 12/8/2010 6:04:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have yet to see any well known instructor run a Kahr as their primary gun. I tend to see Glocks, M&Ps, the RARE Sig and very pricey, tricked-out 1911's That should be a clue.
After running H&K USPs in .45 (compact and full size) as well as a Sig 226 in 9mm, I'm an all-9mm Glock and j-frame user at this point after taking lots of formal training classes. Take care and stay safe, Mike Yeah the clue is this a kahr is a carry gun not something for extended range sessions, esp in 45. Do you find that the recoil is harsh? I admit, I'm having trouble deciding whether to keep the M&P45c or switch. I was working with the 45c last night, and I think one of my problems is I try to grip the gun too high.....a relic of having shot 1911s for too long, I suppose. With a slightly lower grip, it fits 100% better, and I do appreciate that the S&W doesn't have any more recoil than a 1911 government model. |
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Posted: 12/8/2010 7:55:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Kahr offers a program to instructors that allows them to buy a number of their pistols at well below dealer cost to encourage them to use them. I'm familiar with a school that took advantage of that program. One instructor had a number of Kahrs, and I've seen many go down or never even get past the first round many times. One had to go back to the factory for a cracked frame with less than 1k down the pipe. Other's had to be worked on many times by the factory. He was told that you have to use the slide release to get the rounds to go fully into battery and other nuiances to make their POS work properly. With that said, I don't think his P45 has failed yet, but the trigger slap is uncomfortable to say the least, and IMO, the gun is way overpriced for what it is.
A .45 is not easy to make small, and even harder to make small and reliable. Spend the money, or try a different caliber/gun combination if you want something that will go bang more than once without some manipulation on your part. My pick for a single stack small .45 would be something from Wilson, or STI. |
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Posted: 12/8/2010 8:20:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have yet to see any well known instructor run a Kahr as their primary gun. I tend to see Glocks, M&Ps, the RARE Sig and very pricey, tricked-out 1911's That should be a clue.
After running H&K USPs in .45 (compact and full size) as well as a Sig 226 in 9mm, I'm an all-9mm Glock and j-frame user at this point after taking lots of formal training classes. Take care and stay safe, Mike Yeah the clue is this a kahr is a carry gun not something for extended range sessions, esp in 45. Do you find that the recoil is harsh? I admit, I'm having trouble deciding whether to keep the M&P45c or switch. I was working with the 45c last night, and I think one of my problems is I try to grip the gun too high.....a relic of having shot 1911s for too long, I suppose. With a slightly lower grip, it fits 100% better, and I do appreciate that the S&W doesn't have any more recoil than a 1911 government model. For what the gun will be used for you never notice the recoil. If you have to use it. Of the pm series PM9, PM45, PM40 from a recoil stand point. the PM guns are not range guns after a few mags you will start to notice it. everyone is different. |
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Posted: 12/8/2010 8:31:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Kahr offers a program to instructors that allows them to buy a number of their pistols at well below dealer cost to encourage them to use them. I'm familiar with a school that took advantage of that program. One instructor had a number of Kahrs, and I've seen many go down or never even get past the first round many times. One had to go back to the factory for a cracked frame with less than 1k down the pipe. Other's had to be worked on many times by the factory. He was told that you have to use the slide release to get the rounds to go fully into battery and other nuiances to make their POS work properly. With that said, I don't think his P45 has failed yet, but the trigger slap is uncomfortable to say the least, and IMO, the gun is way overpriced for what it is. A .45 is not easy to make small, and even harder to make small and reliable. Spend the money, or try a different caliber/gun combination if you want something that will go bang more than once without some manipulation on your part. My pick for a single stack small .45 would be something from Wilson, or STI. So much conflicting info. I've been told by another instructor on another forum to avoid STI like the plague 
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Posted: 12/8/2010 8:37:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: While there may be antecdotal truth to that, but keep in mind that when bringing up 1911's you enter very deep minefield of gun snobbery and fanboyism. For many, anything less than a $3k full-house custom 1911 is crap. Quoted: Kahr offers a program to instructors that allows them to buy a number of their pistols at well below dealer cost to encourage them to use them. I'm familiar with a school that took advantage of that program. One instructor had a number of Kahrs, and I've seen many go down or never even get past the first round many times. One had to go back to the factory for a cracked frame with less than 1k down the pipe. Other's had to be worked on many times by the factory. He was told that you have to use the slide release to get the rounds to go fully into battery and other nuiances to make their POS work properly. With that said, I don't think his P45 has failed yet, but the trigger slap is uncomfortable to say the least, and IMO, the gun is way overpriced for what it is. A .45 is not easy to make small, and even harder to make small and reliable. Spend the money, or try a different caliber/gun combination if you want something that will go bang more than once without some manipulation on your part. My pick for a single stack small .45 would be something from Wilson, or STI. So much conflicting info. I've been told by another instructor on another forum to avoid STI like the plague Kahr makes a good CCW gun. Thats their thing. I have one and so does a friend. They work great for what they are designed for. I'm sure if I was putting 3000 rounds through it a year, it would choke, just like a $3,000 1911.
 I just don't think you will see many trainers using them. Serviceability and commonality within their communities and students seem to be the overriding factor in their choices. Makes about as much sense as teaching a handgun course with Deagles. |
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Posted: 12/9/2010 4:17:26 AM EDT
[#24]
I have the Kahr TP45 and absolutely love it. It is totally reliable, safe, lighter and easier to conceal than a Commander, 7+1 capacity and magazines are very easy to conceal and carry. I've tried them all and the Kahr just happens to be, to me, the ideal ccw. I couldn't care less what some uber-tactical class instructors or internet posters say (and neither should you), try as many as you can and buy what works for you. None of these guys are going to be sharing your "life and death experience" with you, God forbid it ever comes to that! And always remember, ANYONE can put together a class and pass themselves off as an authority on PD and ANYONE can post on the internet and claim to be an arms expert. Always have your BS filter on! Good luck with whatever you decide on.
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Posted: 12/9/2010 8:44:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
So much conflicting info. I've been told by another instructor on another forum to avoid STI like the plague he must not like Texas. |
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Posted: 12/9/2010 2:57:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Kahr offers a program to instructors that allows them to buy a number of their pistols at well below dealer cost to encourage them to use them. I'm familiar with a school that took advantage of that program. One instructor had a number of Kahrs, and I've seen many go down or never even get past the first round many times. One had to go back to the factory for a cracked frame with less than 1k down the pipe. Other's had to be worked on many times by the factory. He was told that you have to use the slide release to get the rounds to go fully into battery and other nuiances to make their POS work properly. With that said, I don't think his P45 has failed yet, but the trigger slap is uncomfortable to say the least, and IMO, the gun is way overpriced for what it is. A .45 is not easy to make small, and even harder to make small and reliable. Spend the money, or try a different caliber/gun combination if you want something that will go bang more than once without some manipulation on your part. My pick for a single stack small .45 would be something from Wilson, or STI. So much conflicting info. I've been told by another instructor on another forum to avoid STI like the plague Check out the 1911 forum on this site, not many(if any) complaints about STI. Personally I'd stick to the M&P that you have now, as I feel that one should practice with their carry gun more than any other gun they own, and even the Kahr lovers will admit that it's no fun to shoot. I love 1911's, but it does get very expensive to get carry gun reliability out of a 1911 that's shorter than a real Commander(4.25"), so enter at your own peril. As I stated before, really thin, moderately priced, and low weight .45's are unicorns in the gun world. It's for a reason though, the .45 was designed to be fired from a full sized gun, propelling a large chunk of lead with early versions of smokeless powder, while riding a horse. It was meant to be carried from a large pistol belt in a cavalry flap holster. All the modern technology in the world can't change the physics required to make a gun that fires a cartridge that large with any strength and durability. |
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Posted: 12/9/2010 3:04:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I have the Kahr CW45. I don't have a single issue with it. I'm not an instructor, but aren't you looking for a CCW gun? Who cares what an instructor is carrying OWB.. The CW45 is a thin as hell, single stack 6+1 .45acp. And it's probably in your price range. One benefit is that you can use 1911 officer's mags (slightly modified) and have a totally flush fitting mag for your carry gun. It saves about 1/4 inch off the grip length. Do I see night sights on that CW? Daniel |
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Posted: 12/9/2010 5:17:09 PM EDT
[#28]
First, STI is top-notch shit.
Second, my experience with Kahr p and k models is very positive. I love the 1911 platform but Kahrs carry far better. And they run reliable. I don't recommend the cw or e lines. A slide stop failure Ruined me on them. Recoil is manageable. Heck, my 12 year old daughter runs them with no problem. |
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Posted: 12/11/2010 7:33:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
More over, I don't like the freaked-out religous weirdos that manufacture them. Kahr's connection to the Unification Church is the biggest reason I got rid of my K40 Covert, and K9 DLC. Both pistols functioned OK, but were terrible for pinching case mouths on ejection. I'm much happier now that they're gone. |
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Posted: 12/11/2010 7:39:05 AM EDT
[#30]
Don't over look the Sig P220 Carry SAO. I absolutely love mine. I have a few different 45s including a USPc and 1911 and the 220 is by far my favorite. It's been absolutely reliable, is fairly thin, & carries well.
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Posted: 12/15/2010 6:39:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Quoted: I have the Kahr CW45. I don't have a single issue with it. I'm not an instructor, but aren't you looking for a CCW gun? Who cares what an instructor is carrying OWB.. The CW45 is a thin as hell, single stack 6+1 .45acp. And it's probably in your price range. One benefit is that you can use 1911 officer's mags (slightly modified) and have a totally flush fitting mag for your carry gun. It saves about 1/4 inch off the grip length. Do I see night sights on that CW? Daniel That gun/picture belongs to another member here, and I think that they are indeed night sights. MY CW45 looks the same, but I have regular "dot the i" sights.
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Posted: 12/16/2010 4:42:08 PM EDT
[#32]
James, I;ve done my homework on this. Have shot G36 and S&W in a tactical 9mm. Kind of oranges to the apple of the subject I know. Wanted a carry for my Dad and bought him a Kahr PM9, he carries it daily in right front jeans pocket. Have reservations about 45acp in such a small package. After reading what GregoryK has said I have to shoot one now. I've been shopping for a steal on another Kahr. Hold the S&W and hold the Kahr. Look at the differences in materials, machining and craftsmanship in PM series. That and reviews in Kahr forum leave me with no doubt what the better is.
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