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12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 3/12/2005 2:34:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 2:35:41 PM EST by bloodsport2885]
Several of my family members possess CCL's and are part of the medical profession. When my mother came home one day claiming they had posted metal detectors and guards at the ER with signs claiming they could confiscate firearms at the door if you try to enter I was amazed. They also stated that the weapons will NEVER be returned to the owner. Now first of all, this is at only ONE hospital in town. The others have no such precautions. I call BS that anyone but a LEO can force you to surrender anything. If its that important that he take my gun from me I suppose he'll have to prove just how dedicated he is to his job. But is it possible that a rent-a-cop could confiscate and KEEP your weapon?! I understand the need for security at a hospital but many of the guards at THIS PARTICULAR HOSPITAL are too lazy to walk a lady to her car in an area where robberies and rapes are COMMON PLACE. I also understand that I and anyone carrying a firearms is obliged to leave if asked based on the fact I have a holstered weapon, but can they really do this?! Id be worried my pistol gets pocketed before it reaches anybody in real trustworthy power.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 2:48:20 PM EST
what town? which hospital?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 2:49:54 PM EST
Call the ATF on them. I think they need to be either a LEO to confiscate a firearm of be filling out a 4473!
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 3:08:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 11:28:34 AM EST by bloodsport2885]
Memphis Methodist University hospital
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:30:48 PM EST
tag
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:57:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 9:45:44 AM EST by WSmac]
The easiest thing to do here would be to check with your state's CCL laws first.
What does the law say about restricted places and the legal authority of a business to post and enforce a ban on CCL weapons.
Get that information in writing if it conflicts with hospital policy.

Ask the hospital for a written copy of their policy and a written document showing their authority to confiscate weapons and secure/dispose of them.

If you find that their policy is not legal, then send this information to their legal counsel and ask for a written reply.

You might start a little campaign in your local paper if you feel this issue warrants other action and that taking this action public would not backfire on gunowners there.

Just adding...
If this turns out to be just a policy made up by that one hospital, you might want to work out a plan for educating them.
If this is a project you don't wish to take on, perhaps a local gunclub or group would be interested.
I would start by gathering facts about CCL/CCW. You might find information by which you can show how safe people with CCL's are compared with LEO's in your state. Not in the manner of, "Cops are more dangerous than CCL holders", but "CCL holders are just as safe as Law Enforcement".

I would then gather information about your state's CCL program;what it teaches the people who attend and how thorough their backgrounds are checked.

Next, you might ask the hospital to send you a written description of who will be confiscating your firearm/ammo, how they plan on securing them, what they will do to both the firearm and you and why they are doing this.
-Is the person who's confiscating the firearm LEGALLY able to have a fiream in their possession? Can a person work as a security guard in your state/municipality without much in the way of a background check and/or with firearms-possesion restrictions such as restraining orders, prior convictions, etc?
-Do they have the proper permit/licensing/training to SAFELY handle the firearm and ammunition?
-Will the hospital have state-approved storage capabilities for the firearm/ammunition? You might find out how the various government building where LEO's frequent, store the firearms of the officers. Jails are one area where officers usually have to use a locker system to secure their firearms before entering certain areas. This might dissuade the hospital from their new policy if the cost is deemed excessive.
I know that for some hospitals, the only 'secure' place for patient's valuables is a single safe, and that several people have the combination of it. Will people be opening this safe (with your gun inside) to access anything else that's in there?
-Will they be giving you a receipt for your handgun/ammunition/magazines/holsters/etc. , and what liabilities do they incur for the safety of your firearm while it is in their possession?

I have seen some states such as Texas, where firearms are not permitted in hospitals when carried by non-LEO's and the law specifically states that a CCW permit does NOT allow a citizen to carry a firearm into a hospital.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:15:15 PM EST
I want to note that ALL the hospitals in Memphis now have a policy on CCW's. I would like to see how that has helped anyone be safe in a hospital. It only puts the employees at greater risk trying to get to the hospital. If you want somebody in the hospital you can get them regardless of signs at the door, so barring law abiding citizens is really just a moot point.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 2:10:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
I call BS that anyone but a LEO can force you to surrender anything. If its that important that he take my gun from me I suppose he'll have to prove just how dedicated he is to his job.



If this is the kind of attitude you have, then I suggest you stop carrying. You give us all a bad name. If you read your state laws, they can bar you from entering a building and if you don't leave can have you arrested. Here is the CCW law in your state. They cannot legally take your weapon from you, but can make it very difficult for you with the local PD why you didn't heed the signs.

It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverage, as defined in 57-3-101(a)(1)(A),. or beer as defined in 57-6-102(1) , are served for on premises consumption.
Any room in which judicial proceedings are in progress.
Any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.
It is not an offense for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if such firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by such adult, or by any other person acting with the expresses or implied consent of such adult, while such vehicle is on school property.
On the grounds of any public park, playground, civic center or other building facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes.
An individual, corporation, business entity or government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by this subsection, at meetings conducted by, or on premises owned, operated, managed or under control of such individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of such prohibition shall be posted in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited.

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§ 39-17-1359. Prohibition at certain meetings - Posting notice.


(a) An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by § 39-17-1351 - § 39-17-1360, at meetings conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of such individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of such prohibition shall be posted. Posted notices shall be displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited. If the possession of weapons is also prohibited on the premises of any such property as well as within the confines of a building located on such property, the notice shall be posted at all entrances to the premises that are primarily used by persons entering the property. The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. The sign shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, premises or property and shall contain language substantially similar to the following:


Pursuant to § 39-17-1359 , the owner/operator of this property has banned weapons on this property, or within this building or this portion of this building. Failure to comply with this prohibition is punishable as a criminal act under state law and may subject the violator to a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500).

(b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for injuries arising on their property.

(c) Any posted notice being used by a local, state or federal governmental entity on July 1, 2000 that is in substantial compliance with the provisions of subsection (a) of this section may continue to be used by such governmental entity.



Link Posted: 3/13/2005 3:48:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 4:05:12 PM EST by bloodsport2885]
Excuse me? If you would re-read my post you would notice that I never said anything about defying an establishment's policy of barring handguns. I stated that a firearm should never be surrenedered to anyone but a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. If Im asked to leave an establishment I will do so gladly. Never did I say that anyone should defy a posted policy. My question dealt with a rumor that SECURITY GUARDS were allowed to confiscate weapons. By the way, nice flame .
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 10:38:30 AM EST
So what happens if your are carrying your weapon and become injured, then go to the hospital as a patient? Will the ER confiscate the personal property of a patient? If an LEO has to go tot eh hospital while on duty, another LEO will usually go with him to secure his equipment. What will they do if a civvie needs medical attention?
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 11:35:05 AM EST
The best guess I can venture is that they would treat it as personal effects or have an on-duty officer take possession until it can be given to a family member or next of kin who is elligible to have it.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:08:30 PM EST
Unless some areas handle it differently...

If you are involved in an accident where the police are called, they will take possession of your firearm.

If you have a family or friend take you to the E.D./E.R. and they discover your firearm, the police will be called and again, they will take the firearm. In the hospitals I've worked in, there was never any provision for securing firearms specifically.

As I mentioned above, hospitals do have a means of securing patient's valuables which usually is a safe.

If someone works in a hospital or has had an experience like this, it would be nice to know if things were handled differently than the way I described it.
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