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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/28/2006 6:56:22 AM EDT
Hey all,
Disclaimer: First off, let me say that this is NOT intended to start any sort of "flame war" or anything of that nature. Since I have no experience with Wilson, I want honest input from people with first hand experience.

Now, as many of you know, I'm thinking of getting a 10mm Delta Elite and then having it gently "massaged". Now, I also heard recently from Wilson, that they will be offering the CQB in 10mm. After contacting Larry at Wilson, he told me that it could also be ordered without front cockers (Halleluia!) AND with the YoBo pro grade rear sight (provided I buy it and send it to them). It already comes with a ramped match barrel, no MIM etc. Crunching the numbers actually goes in favor of getting the Wilson (instead of buying the DE for $800 and then putting almost twice that amount into it). However, on some gun sites people are saying things like "I'd rather get a DW and spend the rest on ammo", and "It's not worth the money", and "you get what you pay for". This last comment was made in a somewhat (for lack of a better term) condescending way. BUT it was coming from a guy who pretty much only shoots full house customs. So are some of these people giving sound advice, or are they just Wilson haters?

I have another "semi-custom", a Nighthawk, that I absolutely LOVE (Y'all have seen the pics...God knows I've posted them enough), and have NO regrets. However I have no experience with a "full custom" 1911, so to me, the Nighthawk is as good as it gets.

So, in a nutshell to all you current and former Wilson owners, would you say that a 10mm CQB built the way you want it is worth $2100? Or given the opportunity would you rather wait up to a year and spend $2500+ for a custom D.E. (remember, this is my first 10mm).

Thanks,
Rich

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:19:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:35:32 AM EDT
I have no opinion on a Wilson 1911, even I wouldn't mind owning one. But I will say this, I recently bought a Colt Delta Elite and it is a fine handgun in stock condition. I did change the guide rod to a regular GI set up and I use a 22 pound Wolff spring. It is very accurate and the brass piles up in a neat pile at the range. Other than getting it hard chromed, I don't see myself changing much on my Colt.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:45:14 AM EDT
I have a Protector in 45acp and it is a fine gun. The workmanship is excellent, the accuracy is what you would expect for that grade of pistol. Their customer service is excellent too.

With all that being said, I wish I would have never bought it. I had a wild hair to get a 1911 and daddy always said buy the best and you will only cry once. Now I have a pistol that I never shoot and I have about $2K tied up in it. I am actually thinking about selling it now
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 10:28:46 AM EDT
I had a CQB. I sold it. Do not regret it

But when I had it, Loved it.

Reason for selling? Mr. Edward Brown
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:03:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 12:04:15 PM EDT by Trumpet]
Thanks for the input so far guys.
As to the CQB, what components does Wilson put in 'em (duh . I know they're Wilson, but what grade?). What is the customer service like? On other boards, guys like Dane Burns call the internals "crappy". Is that true, or is he just being "elitist"?


R
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:23:15 PM EDT
One thing to consider is the CQB is only one step up from the bottom when it comes to quality, fit and finish with the Wilsons, the KZ being the bottom of the barrel. The CQB get less fitting, less tuning and 'cheaper' parts. I am sure that they have MIM hammers, slide stops and I think sears. My Protector has all tool steel parts as do the other higher end models.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:51:53 PM EDT
Larry said it contains NO MIM.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:18:39 PM EDT
I know for a fact that my KZ and my buddies CQB & Classic had MIM hammers and slide stops but I never checked the sears. If I had to guess I would be the extractor on the KZ was MIM too and it did break. I also do know that when people found out about this they raised a fit because their $1800 pistol had "pot-metal" in it. They may have change it now but they were made that way. Do a search on 1911Forums.com for 'Wilson + MIM' and hang on for the 'S@#T Storm'.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:18:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Larry said it contains NO MIM.



Exactly

I spoke with WC several times before I purchased my CQB.

The current CQB does not have a single MIM part.

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:22:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Larry said it contains NO MIM.



Exactly

I spoke with WC several times before I purchased my CQB.

The current CQB does not have a single MIM part.




And what are your impressions etc of it? Worth the money? Would you make any changes, etc?

Thanks
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:33:49 PM EDT
The guy who use to sell the Wilsons at the store I got mine at was from Berryville and new a few of the smiths there and he had said that they were getting complaints. I wonder exactly when they dropped them? I did notice that the CQB's here went up about $250 in the last year I can remember when they were $1399 just a few short years ago.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:37:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Larry said it contains NO MIM.



Exactly

I spoke with WC several times before I purchased my CQB.

The current CQB does not have a single MIM part.




And what are your impressions etc of it? Worth the money? Would you make any changes, etc?

Thanks



I was very pleased.

It has been stone reliable.

The only thing I specified was an S&A magwell and WC did a great job of fitting it. I would have zero hesitation about buying another WC CQB.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:48:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Thanks for the input so far guys.
As to the CQB, what components does Wilson put in 'em (duh . I know they're Wilson, but what grade?). What is the customer service like? On other boards, guys like Dane Burns call the internals "crappy". Is that true, or is he just being "elitist"?
R



I've had a few Wilson 1911's and the pistols were great. Their customer service was the best that I have ever dealt with. The earlier CQB's and some of the Protectors which I had used MIM ignition parts and I never would have known the difference, and I probably wouldn't have in my lifetime.

There are reputable gunsmiths who I'm sure would like to remain unnamed that question whether Mr. Burns is actually a real gunsmith. As far as him calling the internals of a Wilson crap, remember he's the guy that takes your 2k Wilson and for another 3 grand and a few years wait, makes it "better" What a racket.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:09:19 PM EDT
One thing about wilson, especially if your going to drop the dime on the CQB, if you plan on 'changing' or 'sending it off' to a gunsmith..

your buying the wrong gun..
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:24:44 PM EDT
I have heard a lot of rumblings about Wilson's customer service lately. I'm in no way saying it is true, but.....with so many other quality smiths out there who have stellar reputations, why risk it?

I'd buy a Delta, and shoot a good 1000 rounds out of it. That will let you figure out what you like/dislike about it. I'd the cruise on over to www.louderthanwords.us and pick anyone of those smiths, and you will be set. You will know that you will be getting one hell of a good gun. Personally, I'd go with Yost-Bonitz. I have one of their 1* Elites, and another being built. They are very friendly and helpful. Do a search on louderthanwords for the Elite, and you will find many great examples of Elites that they have built up.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:38:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chromeluv:
One thing about wilson, especially if your going to drop the dime on the CQB, if you plan on 'changing' or 'sending it off' to a gunsmith..
your buying the wrong gun..



Why?
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:44:34 PM EDT
IMHO, i see the role of the CQB as a great semi-custom borderline production level gun that should be good to go as it arrives to the FFL. You know exactly what comes with it, great gun dont get me wrong.

But once you start modifying a $1600 semi/production gun, you should start looking at a higher leve semi custom or even a true spec'd gun to your choice.

We all know its hard to wait, but to get a gun exactly the way you want it...it is rewarding.


I could be off track, dunno, anyone else agree?

Like i said earlier, I owned one, it was great. Did everything and more. Just moved on..
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:54:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chromeluv:
IMHO, i see the role of the CQB as a great semi-custom borderline production level gun that should be good to go as it arrives to the FFL. You know exactly what comes with it, great gun dont get me wrong.

But once you start modifying a $1600 semi/production gun, you should start looking at a higher leve semi custom or even a true spec'd gun to your choice.

We all know its hard to wait, but to get a gun exactly the way you want it...it is rewarding.


I could be off track, dunno, anyone else agree?

Like i said earlier, I owned one, it was great. Did everything and more. Just moved on..



I agree. The sticker price on a new CQB is around 2k which certainly isn't cheap. Anything you have done to it is just redoing what you've already paid a premium for. You will void your warranty which you've paid for as well. At that point you'd be better off buying a used Colt, SA, or Kimber and have it built the way you want it from the start.



Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:57:38 PM EDT
I see your point. BUT if Wilson will make the mods I want "at the factory" (no forward cockers, Greider trigger, YoBo sights), does the same idea apply? I figure if I get those, that's everything I want.


R
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 3:28:08 PM EDT
1) the CQB is a great pistol - and a 10mm CQB would be a bad motherfucker. I have two CQBs, and I modified the second one. I added an S&A lanyard loop MSH and switched the thumb safety for an Ed Brown tactical, because it's what I prefer. I certainly would have ordered it that way if they offered it, but they don't. That said, I love my CQBs, and I run them hard.

I have a Dillon 1050, and it's sometimes all that it can do to keep up with my trigger finger, I mean that kind of hard.

You won't be sorry.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 3:48:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 3:49:16 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
I see your point. BUT if Wilson will make the mods I want "at the factory" (no forward cockers, Greider trigger, YoBo sights), does the same idea apply? I figure if I get those, that's everything I want.


R



I'm willing to guarantee they will delete the front serrations and install the YoBo sights (If you send them the sights). I had to do the same thing with my S&A magwell. I'm not sure about the trigger, that might take some smooth talking. I did have them fit my trigger to 4 1/2 lbs, and that is a pound heavier than a standard CQB trigger.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 3:54:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
I see your point. BUT if Wilson will make the mods I want "at the factory" (no forward cockers, Greider trigger, YoBo sights), does the same idea apply? I figure if I get those, that's everything I want.
R



You may have an issue with the sights. Wilson has and still may be using a proprietary cut for their own "house brand" of fixed sights which may not be able to be modified for your particular sight.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 3:57:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 3:57:29 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By BrianNH:

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
I see your point. BUT if Wilson will make the mods I want "at the factory" (no forward cockers, Greider trigger, YoBo sights), does the same idea apply? I figure if I get those, that's everything I want.
R



You may have an issue with the sights. Wilson has and still may be using a proprietary cut for their own "house brand" of fixed sights which may not be able to be modified for your particular sight.



Thats a good point and something you would need to discuss with them.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:01:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
I see your point. BUT if Wilson will make the mods I want "at the factory" (no forward cockers, Greider trigger, YoBo sights), does the same idea apply? I figure if I get those, that's everything I want.


R



That sounds good to me, but my questions after that are, how long is the turn around time? how much money?

And, how much money are you willing to spend? And how long are you willing to wait?

For a semi-custom gun..?

No flaming on my part and no neg. feelings, im just playing devil's advocate/thinking outside the box...
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:08:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 4:11:02 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By chromeluv:
borderline production level gun that should be good to go as it arrives to the



I do not agree with this statement at all.

What production gun even comes close to a stock CQB?

I will answer my own question........................ None.


Just for the record:

I waited two months total for my CQB even with the out of the ordinary S&A magwell fitting, plus I had some extra serrations & checkering.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:14:02 PM EDT
I go the other way...

we could differ on the terms, but when it comes to the smith's out there, narrow it to the CQB line of pistols, i stand by what i said earlier, semi-custom/borderline Production.

Does Bill assemble those guns and inspect before they go out? They are 'checked off and test fired' by the master pistol smiths, yes.

But from ground up, assembly line....

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:20:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 6:04:19 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By chromeluv:
But from ground up, assembly line....




How does a group of 1911 specific gunsmiths fitting a pistol equate to an "Assembly Line"?

You obviously have no idea how WC builds a 1911.

SA, Colt, Kimber, and Para have assemblers, WC has master gunsmiths inspecting & fitting each part. Not to mention the test firing for accuracy, not just a few rounds for function.

Big difference.

Maybe it's not the same as Richard Hienie, Larry Vickers, Hilton Yam, or Chuck Rogers hand building your 1911, but it sure as hell isn't a "Production" gun.

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:26:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By chromeluv:
But from ground up, assembly line....




How does a group of 1911 specific gunsmiths fitting a pistol equate to an "Assembly Line"

You obviously have no idea how WC builds a 1911.

SA, Colt, Kimber, and Para have assemblers, WC has master gunsmiths inspecting & fitting each part. Not to mention the test firing for accuracy, not just a few rounds for function.

Big difference.



sorry - this comes from a good friend who is a prominent gunsmith here in my town who has been through wilson's shop. No it wasn't me, no I dont know the date.

But the people assembling the guts of the gun..the meat and potatoes of the CQB Line, 'master pistolsmiths'? Dont think so.

Happen to know how much a 'master wilson dealer' buys a CQB for? It knocked me back on my heels when I found out how much..

but back to the original thread, great pistol when I owned one. Let us know how it goes when or if you get one back trump
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:47:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
I see your point. BUT if Wilson will make the mods I want "at the factory" (no forward cockers, Greider trigger, YoBo sights), does the same idea apply? I figure if I get those, that's everything I want.


R



I'm willing to guarantee they will delete the front serrations and install the YoBo sights (If you send them the sights). I had to do the same thing with my S&A magwell. I'm not sure about the trigger, that might take some smooth talking. I did have them fit my trigger to 4 1/2 lbs, and that is a pound heavier than a standard CQB trigger.



Why would you do that? One of mine is 3.5 and the other is 2.75 (does not follow, either).
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:50:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 6:55:57 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By modog:
Why would you do that? One of mine is 3.5 and the other is 2.75 (does not follow, either).



Mine is a carry gun.

I think 2.75-3.5 lbs is too light of a trigger for what I want. I'm sure it would be great for a pure range gun though.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:53:54 PM EDT
Wilson CQB, best weapon I've ever owned.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:55:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
Hey all,
Disclaimer: First off, let me say that this is NOT intended to start any sort of "flame war" or anything of that nature. Since I have no experience with Wilson, I want honest input from people with first hand experience.

Now, as many of you know, I'm thinking of getting a 10mm Delta Elite and then having it gently "massaged". Now, I also heard recently from Wilson, that they will be offering the CQB in 10mm. After contacting Larry at Wilson, he told me that it could also be ordered without front cockers (Halleluia!) AND with the YoBo pro grade rear sight (provided I buy it and send it to them). It already comes with a ramped match barrel, no MIM etc. Crunching the numbers actually goes in favor of getting the Wilson (instead of buying the DE for $800 and then putting almost twice that amount into it). However, on some gun sites people are saying things like "I'd rather get a DW and spend the rest on ammo", and "It's not worth the money", and "you get what you pay for". This last comment was made in a somewhat (for lack of a better term) condescending way. BUT it was coming from a guy who pretty much only shoots full house customs. So are some of these people giving sound advice, or are they just Wilson haters?

I have another "semi-custom", a Nighthawk, that I absolutely LOVE (Y'all have seen the pics...God knows I've posted them enough), and have NO regrets. However I have no experience with a "full custom" 1911, so to me, the Nighthawk is as good as it gets.

So, in a nutshell to all you current and former Wilson owners, would you say that a 10mm CQB built the way you want it is worth $2100? Or given the opportunity would you rather wait up to a year and spend $2500+ for a custom D.E. (remember, this is my first 10mm).

Thanks,
Rich




I have not owned or even shot a Wilson Combat gun. I have used their parts and have talked to the people at Wilson Combat many times. I have never been disappointed. Their parts are some of the best and the customer service has been awesome. I have a SA G.I. and I am currently getting parts for a full build. Most of the parts are Wilson, while others are Ed Brown, Gun Runner's, Smith & Alexander, Novak and Greider. Once I have all the parts I want the gun will be going to Wilson Combat for the complete build. I spoke with them a couple of months ago and asked if any part on my Brownell's wishlist would be a problem. According to Wilson Combat they will have no problem installing the parts I am ordering. It is because of Wilson Combat's quality parts and awesome customer service/advice that I am sending them my gun. They will also do what ever you want on one of their offered guns as long as the part being added is a quality one and what you want done does not effect safety or reliability. They will only do 30lpi checkering though. Anyway, I say buy with absolute confidence. I would not worry about other smiths and what they think, more often than not they too are using Wilson parts for their "Custom Builds". Those who don't did at one time and now have the ability to produce their own quality parts.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:22:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 7:26:26 PM EDT by cda24]
I recently purchased a WC Profressional from my local gun shop. I am very happy with the pistol and would recommend Wilson to others wanting a gun in that price range. The pistol does not have tooling marks. It feels good in my hands, and the fit and finish is excellent. It has not failed me yet.

A little background:

I had a Colt Commander that I was happy with. The gun hasn't malfunctioned yet. The only problem I have had with it was the sights coming off the first trip to the range. They were re-staked and have been fine ever since. I wanted to have two good pistols though. I bought a SW 1911Sc and thought I had found my 2nd pistol until I shot it. It malfunctioned several times per hundred rounds by failing to completely chamber a round. I shot the same mags (Wilson) and the same ammo (Winchester) that I did with my Commander.

I was tired of putting up with the sub-standard quality I got from Colt and Smith & Wesson. Yes I could have sent the Smith back to the factory, but I had a problem and wanted it solved the first time. And sending it back to the factory didn't guarantee that it would work when I got it back. So I decided a needed a semi-custom pistol.

I picked the Wilson because my local dealer always stocked them. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Baer, Brown, or comparable pistol. But I wanted to lay eyes on the exact pistol I was going to be buying, because as you all know that's a lot of money for a gun.

So to sum it all up; in my opinion, the chances are better that you will get a good quality pistol by buying a semi-custom pistol. Yes you can send a Springfield or Colt to a pistolsmith, but sometimes there a dimensions that aren't machined right from the factory that a pistolsmith can't fix unless parts are replaced.

Sorry for the long winded post.

ETA: Some previous member(s) said WC used MIM in the CQBs. I looked at a few of the parts in my gun without taking the frame apart and I can't find any ejector marks, mold lines, or any other signs of MIM parts.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:46:45 PM EDT
well, for the money the Dan Wesson Razorback is a very nice 10mm for 1k...

I currently in the the first stages of a Caspian longslide build. Months ago I bought one of the last Ed Brown 6 inch O/S target barrel. Heres my list

Caspian frame and slide, ball cut, fine rear serrations only
Yost-Bonitz Ignition System
STI carbon fiber trigger
EB small parts
EB thumb safety, slide stop and mag release
Yost-Bonitz Double Diamond Micarta grips
boron carbon finish (matte black)
DSC fiber optic front sight, bomar target rear

I figured I would have about the same $$$ as a new Wilson 10mm..

FWIW I think you would be more than happy with a 10mm wilson, but do your research.. good luck
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:25:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By modog:
Why would you do that? One of mine is 3.5 and the other is 2.75 (does not follow, either).



Mine is a carry gun.

I think 2.75-3.5 lbs is too light of a trigger for what I want. I'm sure it would be great for a pure range gun though.




Personal preference. I carry both of them regularly.
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