This year will be the year I finally get my CCW and get a handgun for CC.


My requirements,  which I won't deviate from,  are as follows:


.45 ACP.   Mid-length barrel.  (4.25" or thereabouts.)   1911 class of design.

Single stack magazine,  standard capacity of 7+1.  Takes USGI mags.

No frills.  

Low cost.

Weight is not a factor.  No need or desire to go to a lightweight frame.

Practical for daily concealed carry.  

No need for expensive exotic materials.  No damascus steel,  no titanium frame or
slide, nothing fancy.      

Carbon steel for the frame and slide would be just fine, thank you.

Finish will be either all blued or all Parkerized.     IDEALLY,  I'd want to get it blued
in the classic but tricky blued finish that Browning applied on the Auto 5 shotguns in
the early 50s.   It's a silvery blue which as I understand it is actually a black nickel
finish that has been intentionally screwed up in a specific way,  yielding this incredible
silvery blueing job which holds up like almost nothing else on the planet and also
looks fantastic.     That would be a finish I'd spend some extra money to get.


So what would you suggest,  within the limits I've defined?


I could go with a factory built gun or I could get into the idea of building my own,
even to the point of doing all the gunsmithing myself, with the aid of the right tutorials.


CJ

Full size frame?
Sounds like a colt combat commander if I'm not mistaken.

Although, it's only a few ounces lighter than a gov model, so you might want to just go with that. Or consider a light weight commander so you can actually get some benefit (in weight reduction) for losing an inch of bbl.

Quoted: This year will be the year I finally get my CCW and get a handgun for CC. My requirements,  which I won't deviate from,  are as follows: .45 ACP.   Mid-length barrel.  (4.25" or thereabouts.)   1911 class of design. Single stack magazine,  standard capacity of 7+1.  Takes USGI mags. No frills.   Low cost. Weight is not a factor.  No need or desire to go to a lightweight frame. Practical for daily concealed carry.   No need for expensive exotic materials.  No damascus steel,  no titanium frame or slide, nothing fancy.       Carbon steel for the frame and slide would be just fine, thank you. Finish will be either all blued or all Parkerized.     IDEALLY,  I'd want to get it blued in the classic but tricky blued finish that Browning applied on the Auto 5 shotguns in the early 50s.   It's a silvery blue which as I understand it is actually a black nickel finish that has been intentionally screwed up in a specific way,  yielding this incredible silvery blueing job which holds up like almost nothing else on the planet and also looks fantastic.     That would be a finish I'd spend some extra money to get. So what would you suggest,  within the limits I've defined? I could go with a factory built gun or I could get into the idea of building my own, even to the point of doing all the gunsmithing myself, with the aid of the right tutorials. CJ

define "low cost", b/c that phrase and a quality 1911 usually dont go together, esp for commader sized ones

do you want it w/ a traditional 1911 plug/rod or one of the captive designs that are pretty prevailant w/ the newer, shorter 1911 models (SA champion, kimber role w/ these)?
any other custom needs--FSC, nights, etc?
grip length--std 1911 or the easier to CCW/shorter, officer sized height?

my current 1911 Commander CCW (SW 1911PD):

my old one (SA 1911 Champion):

while i liked the champion, the SW SC frame is lighter and its fit and finish were better than the SA; overall, i would have liked it to have been a officer sized height grip...just some ideas though

FWIW, i'd consider: Colt Commanders, SA Champions, or more readily, a Kimber CDP

Can't go wrong with a Colt Commander, this one has a few extras. The current model 1991 Commander #O4691 would be an excellent choice.

www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/1991.asp

Obviously there are a lot of ways to go.

I'm thinking of one that's smoothed, rounded in the right spots, "low drag, low snag", that sort of thing.    Low profile sights.   Remember the application:  Carry gun.   Sights that
allow "a few minutes of bad guy" are all I really need,  but then again,  I want my range
time with it to be productive and not frustrating.   Reasonable accuracy is required but
I don't need a tack driver.     I could easily pick up a cheap used "pin gun" if that was
my only requirement...but who's going to want to CC with a full sized 1911 with a comp??

I'm currently THINKING I want to stay with a full length grip as one requirement I want...for now...is to use standard 1911 magazines.      


I could go either way on the traditional or rigid guide rod.   I'm not picky about that,
except that I think there are some advantages to staying close to the USGI specs
as I want parts availability to be top notch.


CJ

Well, I think the commander is about your only choice that I'm aware of. Many other 4" 1911s have aluminum frames or are quite a bit more expensive.

ETA: if you are new to CC, I'd at least consider an aluminum frame- that all steel 4" gun will get heavy pretty quick! If your used to heavy gun, then this is probably a great choice.

How much do you want to spend?

What do you consider low cost?

$500?
$1500?
$2500?
$3500?

STI?
Les Baer?
Sig?
S&W?
Rock River?
Springfield?

Low cost has a lot of different meanings to a lot of different people.

If you are going to buy a regular production or semi-custom, you may want to hold out a few extra dollars for a trigger job or such just in case it comes and you aren't satisfied with it.

I wouldn't worry about parts for a 1911, there are so many parts makers and smiths out there for the 1911 that there is an almost limitless supply. You'll also find that the USGI spec for parts doesn't really exist anymore and you are much better off with the good quality aftermarket parts from the better names out there.

The biggest problem you are going to find is if you want any work done, it could take weeks or months. I'm about 15 months into a 3 year wait for my carry gun.

Single stack magazine, standard capacity of 7+1. Takes USGI mags.

Consider the Wilson 8-shot mags.I carry them in my 1911 and they are great! That additional bullet (8+1) is worth the cost!

I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said, so I'll just stick to casting my pictorial "vote."

I like that,  it's nice and simple.


A Wilson 8 round magazine is probably fine.   I'm just saying I don't want to go to a lower
capacity magazine than the USGI 7 rounder.   Full size grip required, in other words.  My
hands are big enough that anything smaller is not comfortable for me.

Price range...I definitely want to keep it under a grand.

Weight really isn't a factor for me.  I would prefer a steel frame and am willing to accept
the weight penalty.   Reason:  Durability.    I expect to shoot this gun regularly at the
range to keep my proficiency up.

There is a gun store about 200 yards from my house and they're a Kimber master dealer,
so I think I'll roll by there and see what they've got to offer.  It should give me some
better ideas of what I might want.


I liked the Caspian stuff I've seen so far.   I'm hoping to maybe score a deal on a
factory second Caspian frame and slide and begin with that.  

I have good hand skills,  I'm an amateur machinist,  and I'm not in the least afraid of
doing my own gunsmithing and fitting.  Of course I'd buy a good book on the subject
of building and smithing a 1911 first.


I want to keep the total cost WELL under 1000 dollars.   Ideally I'd like to keep it under
500 dollars,  if that's possible.    Doing my own fitting and gunsmithing may be the only
way to do that.


CJ

Well, I have to tell you, I'm in the process of building a 1911 right now and it ain't cheap. You may be okay if you can get a factory second frame or slide though. I would not compromise with sub-par parts, such as Wilson's value line or Masen. For a quality carry gun, you want Wilson bulletproof or Ed Brown hardcore parts. Once you factor that stuff in, plus tools you've easily spent 500, probably closer to 600 not even including frame and slide.
If you are inclined to do it, then go for it, I know I'm pretty excited about my build. Just be aware that in the long run, it won't be much cheaper, if at all.

Springfield Armory Champion, great options to fill what you want and easily a good price as well.

I've found that there really is no difference in concealability between the govt and commander models.  They both hide just as well for me and they're both just as confortable to carry.

I would just go with a 5" bare-bones model and customize it little by little.

I've just spent time browsing Kimber's website and I sort of like the basic Pro Carry II except I'd want to make a few minor changes.    One,  I want a steel frame, and two,   I prefer an arched mainspring housing.

So I guess that's a pretty good pattern to start with,  at this point, anyway.   Next I'll try
to find something like this that I can actually try out at the range and see if what I think
I like is what I'll really like.


CJ

Under 500 dollars?!?

$500 is pushing it, severely, for a carry 1911. Go to Brownells or Midway and start pricing parts.

lu380's idea might be your best bet.

You also might want to rethink that finish, especially since you live in Florida, a regular blued finish like you are talking about won't last through one summer down here.

Two things to think about:

1. If you start out with junk, you end up with junk.

2. How much is your life worth?

I'm just saying I don't feel any need to go for the ritziest model you can find.    I want quality, absolute reliability,  and simplicity,   with no frills and I don't want to pay big money for a brand name if there's really no benefit to doing so.

This is not going to be a "vanity gun" in any way.  It's all business.  


CJ

This is my carry gun. No frills and %100 reliable.



This is a new Colt Commander. It cost me $550 very slightly used.

Since this pic--

- replaced the plastic mainspring with a steel one-$10

-replaced broken factory extractor with a Wilson bulletproof-$20

-replaced grip safety with an Ed Brown drop-in semi beavertail( it is ugly but it works)-$25

-replaced full length guide rod with used GI setup-$10

-installed Novak night sitghts-$300

-added grips-$20

I have put several thousand round through this pistol with no problems. It is accurate and reliable. I carry it everyday with no reservations.

Getting a bite free 1911 can be done very economically but don't confuse "economy" with "cheap".  You get out what you put in so it is best to start with a good base.  Personally, I use a series 80 Colt and have no issues with carrying a series 80 BUT the Series 70 style guns ( sans later model firing pin safeties ) are your best bet in terms of ease of maintanence.  This leaves you with either Colt or Springfield as a choice.  The major difference you want to consider here is the internals.  As far as the frames and slides on Colt Ser. 70 and Springfield 1911s they are both excellent.  I have found that INTERNALLY Colt uses better parts by and large.  In each case, however, there are some parts you may want to replace.  I'll leave that for later.

GETTING A BITE FREE 1911 ON THE "CHEAP".

After years of dickering around with 1911s I've found that extended beavertails and such are completely unnecessary unless you "need" a high hand hold.  I don't.  There are easier and much more economical ways of getting a bite free 1911 than having to grind the frame and go through the process of fitting an extended beavertail.

First, the Hammer.

On the Colt and Springfield guns, the spur hammers are perfectly suited to defensive needs if you simply remove four notches from the lenth of the spur and then reprofile the hammer.  In fact, I find them personally superior to rowel ( ring ) hammers.  thrity minutes of work ( less if you have access to a mill ) and a trip to a bead blasting cabinet and you have a very acceptable hammer.


Next, the rear of the frame and the grip safety.

This is the the section of the gun that probably causes more comfort issues than "spur hammer" bite.  Both Colt and Springfield tend to have rather sharpish frame tangs and grip safeties.  Simply putting a light radius on the rear sections of the frame, just lightly, you don't have to go crazy, adds tons of comfort.  Again, you don't have to ruin the lines of the gun, just soften them up at the portions of the frame where the web of your firing hand wraps around the gun.

With the grip safety, you can round off the rear, lower sections of the safety where it glides over the web of your hand.  Use a bit more radiusing here because during recoil the grip safety does make contact with your hand fairly firmly.

ETA: I am adding as I go along here....bear with me.....

Another section of the gun it helps to soften is the edges of the trigger where the pad of your finger engages the surface of the trigger.  A simple radius on the edges of the trigger works wonders for comfort.  If the trigger has a "serated" face, stone those edges down just a bit, too.  It's an amazing difference.


On to reliability.  1911s were designed in the days of much cheaper labor and better management.  These days, you have three managers for every ten employees and most of them are strung out doing several jobs to the man.  Management, meanwhile, is off running amuck as usual.  In the case of the 1911 this has led to a more inferior gun than was turned out in the days of yore.  Still, the workers are trying the best they can and you can do a lot in short order to cover what they were forced to miss on occasion.

One of the big offenders that causes reliability issues with a 1911 is the tuning and design of the extractor.  I have noticed that both Colt and Springfield use an extractor with a claw height of .149 inches.  The old school claw is around .170 inches high and takes a nice big grip on the case.  Wilson Bulletproff and Cylinder and Slide make nice beefy extractors.  I highly reccommend you study the fitting and tuning of a good extractor and add a Wilson or C and S to your firearm.  You will not regret it.

The safety.  Most folks these days use the big ol' gas pedal safeties made by nearly everyone and their dog.  Personally, I stick with the old school one.  If you go with an extended safety....feel free to trim down the fat to just what you need.  It's less obtrusive and doesn't look so silly.  Use Wilson if you go this route.  Again, I think it is unneccesary.

Slide stop.  It stops the slide.  Does it work? Then don't sweat it.  If you must go with an aftermarket slide stop go with a Wilson Bulletproof.  It's an excellent design, very smooth and unobtrusive with a very classy look.  NOTE: there is a trick to some slide stops to get them to function properly and at the right time.  Study this, it isn't hard but it is an area you should know.

DAH DAH DAHHHHHH!!!!  The PLUNGER TUBE.  A simple, component that need serious looking to.  I cannot believe how many loose plunger tubes are running around out there...especially on NIB guns.  When you start working on your gun, have it PROPERLY restaked as a precaution.  A buddy of mine and I thin up Permatex "Permalock" with acetone and put a few drops on a degreased frame at the plungertube junction to the frame before we restake it.  Rock solid.

Springs: Wolff heavy duty springs.  Find out what the best weight is for Commanders and go from there.  The key is the recoil spring and firing pin retrurn spring.  A heavy duty plunder tube spring unit from Ed Brown is also a good idea.

Sights: A dovetailed front is the best way to go but a properly staked unit is fine.  Use what you like.  Make sure whoever does it...knows how to do it RIGHT.  Me, I just used a Robar Heavy Duty GI rear sight.  Conventional look, nice and tough.

Now, I have more to add, but I have some other stuff to do right now...so here is a picture of my carry 1911.  Note, this gun is more tuning than anything but it does have an aftermarket extractor ( C nd S ) and some otehr do dads I'll get into later.  There is not more than 250 dollars into the gun.  I carry it constantly and VERY comfortably.  Ignore the HiPower.....IF YOU CAN!!!!

Mepro tritium sights, King's drop in beavertail.

Medium length solid trigger, VZ grips added for comfort & ergonomics, but not strictly necessary.  Also replaced nylon rounded MSH with flat nylon MSH.

I see a lot of good advice in here and a lot of specific points I hadn't thought much about yet, as well.

I'm not susceptible to hammer bite.  Never experienced it in thousands and thousands of
rounds through a stock Colt 1911 (not an A1) made in 1918.    

I have no want, need, or desire for an extended or enlarged safety or slide stop or even
an ambidextrous safety.    

Good point on the size of the extractor claw.  I'll keep it in mind.


I'll choose a hammer design that's as close to  no-snag as possible, and of course, reliable.


I need to think about triggers, too.  Long or short?  Which is better for me?


CJ

 As far as triggers go.....try out a few 1911s from the gang and see what you like.  I like the newer, long Colt Aluminum triggers.  No silly overtravel screw just a simple unadorned aluminum trigger with no ugly cutouts to ruin a classic profile.

 

Ok HomeBoy (FLL) I can't go against a 1911 for CC, or anything else for that matter; carried one for a couple of years here in South Fla. I sweat like a pig so I took to a full size Springfield with parkerized finish,8 rnd mag. Had a beavertail and match barrel/bushing installed. Not pretty like some of the pix here, but shoots big ragged holes.hrow The 23 is why I don't have a OM style 1911, I do have a G30

It's not going to be a Glock.   I have nothing against them but I'm not a big fan of them outside of the 21..which is pretty bulky but shoots VERY nicely for me.

I want a gun with a real safety on it.    Because I'd rather not end up shooting myself in the foot or leg.



CJ

I was going to suggest the Dan Wesson CBOB, but they are only available in stainless.  So probably Colt Combat Commander.