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Posted: 12/28/2006 3:25:54 AM EDT
Switching to 1911 for CCW

Carried a P7 for years, with an external extractor.  I never had any issues with hand chambering a round, then gently allowing the slide down.  This saved me from having to juggle rounds, in order to avoid repeatedly chambering from a mag and worrying about the bullet being set back into the cartridge.

Can this be managed in a 1911 with a normal internal extractor?
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 3:39:31 AM EDT
[#1]
NO don't do it. With a 1911 the rim should slide under the extractor and should not force the extractor around it.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 4:36:56 AM EDT
[#2]
1911 was designed to load from the magazine.  External extractors have springs that allow them to snap over the cartridge rim.  If you do that with the internal type, you lose tension faster, and you chip the hook.




Load one from the mag, safe pistol and then top off the mag.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 5:02:13 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
NO don't do it. With a 1911 the rim should slide under the extractor and should not force the extractor around it.


+1

I used to do this, and fortunately never broke any extractors.  But Indeed the rim should slip under the extractor rather than snap over it.

I realize that the 1911 is much harder on ammo than modern pistol designs, but there's no getting around the mag loading of the weapon.  My 1911s always set the bullet back in the case after just a few loadings.

Load it once, and try to minimize the loading and unloading process.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 8:25:00 AM EDT
[#4]
Insert full magazine.

Grasp slide with entire palm of weak hand.

Rack slide to rear and release, chambering round.

Activate safety.

Re-holster.

Eject magazine while pistol is still holstered and top off mag with one (1) Defensive/Carry round of your choice. (administrative reload)

Re-insert magazine until seated.


It works with all auto-pistols.  Any questions?
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 9:36:58 AM EDT
[#5]
+1 to mcnielsen's post

Link Posted: 12/28/2006 10:27:33 AM EDT
[#6]
The myth of extractor damage whacked!

Louder Than Words
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 11:36:30 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
The myth of extractor damage whacked!

Louder Than Words


Interesting!

I've read dude's accounts here of breaking their external extractors on their glock by chamber loading regularly.

Of course that is different than the extractor in the 1911, but just as a matter of habit, I no longer chamber load any of my pistols.

Link Posted: 12/28/2006 11:58:24 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
The myth of extractor damage whacked!

Louder Than Words


What a poor test method.  How does that prove anything?
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 1:53:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Sure, what does Ned Christiansen know???

O wait, more than any of us.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 2:10:52 PM EDT
[#10]
use 2 mags; one to load one round in the chamber to top off, the next as a full cap mag for carry

Link Posted: 12/28/2006 2:30:47 PM EDT
[#11]
I have to agree with ar15_rifleman on this.  Ned Christiansen may know more about the 1911 than anyone on this forum, but he needs to duplicate the loading action in it's entirety. The physics of droping the slide on a chambered round, and rigging an extractor to have it flexed my a mechanical device are completly different. It's not just the flex, but the shock of striking the extractor head on that causes problems.


Quoted:
What a poor test method.  How does that prove anything?
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 2:41:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 6:32:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Thanks on all sides!

I like Alpha's idea, have a "loading' mag.  Only problem remains, what do you do with the once-loaded rounds?  Can you load them twice without concern?  Do you have another mag which you gradually fill, then put into carry rotation?

I'm interested, because I have kids at home and cannot be separated from a loaded weapon, so mine get loaded/unloaded at least once a day.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 6:45:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Personally I wouldn't load the same round more than three times out of a 1911. The problem you get is bullet setback, and that can lead to big problems.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 10:29:43 AM EDT
[#15]
To the best of my knowledge, no manufacturer recommends loading a pistol by sticking a round in the barrel and dropping the slide on a live round.  In fact, (since they were mentioned by name earlier) Glock warns against this practice.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 11:36:01 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
Personally I wouldn't load the same round more than three times out of a 1911. The problem you get is bullet setback, and that can lead to big problems.



I have noticed this and what problems can it lead to?
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 1:39:08 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Personally I wouldn't load the same round more than three times out of a 1911. The problem you get is bullet setback, and that can lead to big problems.



I have noticed this and what problems can it lead to?


Bullet setback can, and does, dangerously increase chamber pressure.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 1:55:14 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:
Thanks on all sides!

I like Alpha's idea, have a "loading' mag.  Only problem remains, what do you do with the once-loaded rounds?  Can you load them twice without concern?  Do you have another mag which you gradually fill, then put into carry rotation?

I'm interested, because I have kids at home and cannot be separated from a loaded weapon, so mine get loaded/unloaded at least once a day.


well i dont have kids...

3 things i guess you could do:
1: get a lockbox and just store your loaded HG in there while at home
2: keep your firearm on you at all times, even while at home (probably not that practical)
3: you could rotate your once chambered ammo more frequently--if you stay w/ your current route, take your once chambered ammo, set it aside, and run it through your firearm the next time you go to the range; just use new, never seated ammo in your next chambering

i rotate my carry ammo once every 3-4 months to ensure functionality and to give that little extra practice; some rotate it more or less frequently

you can load em twice without concern,  imo; actually, i have re-chambered several dif loads like this several times with no overpressure problems, h/w, like others have said, its not recommended or safe for all loads due to overchamber potential and bullet seatback problems=kBs!!!
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 2:18:06 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
The myth of extractor damage whacked!

Louder Than Words




I have personally snapped an extractor hook from this foolish practice in my greener years. When you operate a weapon outside of its intended parameters, the worst can and does happen from time to time.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 2:43:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 3:17:16 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The myth of extractor damage whacked!

Louder Than Words




I have personally snapped an extractor hook from this foolish practice in my greener years. When you operate a weapon outside of its intended parameters, the worst can and does happen from time to time.



me too.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 3:53:18 PM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:
To the best of my knowledge, no manufacturer recommends loading a pistol by sticking a round in the barrel and dropping the slide on a live round.  In fact, (since they were mentioned by name earlier) Glock warns against this practice.


My Ruger P89 DC's manual  specifically mentions that single rounds can be hand-loaded through the breech, ostensibly for training purposes.  It has, of course, an external extractor.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 9:13:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Thanks for the lockbox ideas; I have two, plus a six foot safe.  With a ten year old and two four year olds, I never have a weapon out of my physical control without it being locked up AND unloaded.  Boys can and will eventually get into just about anything; my system is part of my promise to my anti-gun wife, as well as my own peace of mind.

Still don't sense any sympathy for Ned's arguments.  I am still familiarizing myself with the details fo 1911 function, so I will continue to consider it; in the meantime, I will develop a system for the recycling of twice cycled rounds, some variation of what has been suggested here.  Just have to avoid having my wife find loose rounds laying around the closet== she doesn't find it to be an aphrodisiac.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 6:37:47 AM EDT
[#24]
I've been using Hornady's TAP FPD 200 grain +P round in my 1911s for CCW use and I've found that the black coating on the cases really lets you see where the extractor has gripped the rim, and that helps me keep track of chambered and non-chambered rounds. Just a thought.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 11:55:14 AM EDT
[#25]
I use a mix of what has been described.  I keep one mag, a lesser quality item that I would not use for carry, as a loader.  once loaded & unloaded those rounds are dropped into a dish / cup / bag. whatever. When mag is used up, I either reload with the stored rounds referenced above or reload this mag with fresh ammo.  I don't cycle the loading rounds more than thrice, twice is better.  Keeps the spring wear down on carry mags, I know all carry mags have fresh ammo.  Anything that's hit the 3x load limit goes into ammo boxes for range.  

Since that can get pricey, gun is on an empty chamber when in the house and or locked in a safe or lockbox.   if it's hot, it is under a minimum of two external locks (Ie: lock box in a locked closet or filing cabinet) if the chamber's empty I will decrease to one external lock for improved speed of access.  I keep a few pistols in one state or the other around so I'm not constantly moving around the weapon as I move from floor to floor etc.  

My primary carry gun is usually hot and double locked.  Others are actually quicker to access if needed at home.  

I've got kids and this makes the most sense to me without constantly cycling ammo, which in my mind greatly ups the chances of an ND anyway.

YMMV.

Z  
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 5:25:22 PM EDT
[#26]
I exchanged emails with Ned Christiansen.  RE hand-chambering, he said somewhat ambiguously:

"I still wouldn't do it."

Not sure what that means. . . . guess I won't do it either.  Thanks.
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