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Posted: 10/17/2012 5:43:24 PM EDT
I was wondering if there was much of a difference between Federal HST and Hornady Critical Duty . And which would be best for winter use?
Link Posted: 10/17/2012 9:32:43 PM EDT
Better expansion with HST, but what caliber?
Link Posted: 10/17/2012 9:50:25 PM EDT
It's for 9MM
Link Posted: 10/18/2012 4:14:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2012 4:33:03 AM EDT


I don't think Cirtical Defense has really been tested out (I haven't seen any data). I made a spread sheet of all the rounds I could find (scroll down a little from the link above and zoom your browser). HST 147g is best in bare gelatin. If concerned about clothing (you mention winter round) the Ranger T 147g is the best in 4 layer denim in terms of penetration/expansion (but the HST 147 is in top 3 or 4 so I think it is the best overall round, but I live in Florida so I'm less concerned about heavy clothing....). Again, my data does not include Critical Defense, and I don't see it listed on the "approved" list but I think it may be relatively new and off list from lack of testing, not necessarilyl lack of performance.

Find the penetration and expansion data for Critical Duty before deciding. I was AMAZED at the differences in populat hollow points in that some are SOOOOO much better/worse than others.
Link Posted: 10/18/2012 9:23:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2012 9:23:43 AM EDT by M4-AK]
Link Posted: 10/18/2012 11:12:57 AM EDT
expansion is quite weak on the critical duty compared to the gold dot , hst, and ranger series.
Link Posted: 10/18/2012 11:51:40 AM EDT
Doc was going to be testing some, don't think he has posted results yet.
Link Posted: 10/18/2012 11:53:22 AM EDT
The cavities in HST and Gold Dots (the two I personally use) are REALLY deep. I think they'd be just fine expanding even after traveling through heavy clothing. Look up some 4LD tests, however.
Link Posted: 10/20/2012 7:27:57 AM EDT
Just ran numbers on the 9mm +P 135g Critical Duty, and it looks pretty marginal. Volume is 3.71/3.15 in bare gelatin/4 layer denim. 147g HST is 6.81/4.67. 147g Ranger T is 4.61/5.29 (best in heavy clothing).
Based on Hornady's website numbers http://www.hornady.com/store/9MM-LUGER-P-135-gr-FlexLock-Critical-DUTY/

HST in .40 and .45 is top performer in BOTH bare gelatin and 4 layer denim. 9mm HST is best in bare, Ranger T best in 4 layer denim.
Use heaviest bullets in all cases and the .45 +P HST is better than the 230g normal pressure.
Link Posted: 10/27/2012 3:25:58 PM EDT
Been looking around - where can I find comparisons between the .45 HST 230 & the HST 230 +P ?
Link Posted: 10/27/2012 6:20:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2012 6:25:14 PM EDT by Rockyriver]
Check out these guys on youtube he has done about all the gel test on 45 ACP. The TNoutdoor9 guy is the main guy to look at his videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWW2Y-IZpyE&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyfQ6fz-N0Q&feature=related
Link Posted: 10/28/2012 4:52:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ticonderoga:
Been looking around - where can I find comparisons between the .45 HST 230 & the HST 230 +P ?


HST Data

Link Posted: 10/28/2012 6:53:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By soulman:
Originally Posted By Ticonderoga:
Been looking around - where can I find comparisons between the .45 HST 230 & the HST 230 +P ?


HST Data



Great! Just what I was looking for - looks like the +P just edges out the reg 230 in almost every category - but just barely. Considering that I'm moving up from 9mm & 40 - I think I'll stick with the non +P and focus on clean first shots and rapid follow up/double taps.

thanks again
Link Posted: 1/10/2013 1:28:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By soulman:
Just ran numbers on the 9mm +P 135g Critical Duty, and it looks pretty marginal. Volume is 3.71/3.15 in bare gelatin/4 layer denim. 147g HST is 6.81/4.67. 147g Ranger T is 4.61/5.29 (best in heavy clothing).
Based on Hornady's website numbers http://www.hornady.com/store/9MM-LUGER-P-135-gr-FlexLock-Critical-DUTY/

HST in .40 and .45 is top performer in BOTH bare gelatin and 4 layer denim. 9mm HST is best in bare, Ranger T best in 4 layer denim.
Use heaviest bullets in all cases and the .45 +P HST is better than the 230g normal pressure.


Critical Duty is made specifically for Barrier penetration , Glass and Steel ... not just the denim clothing
Link Posted: 1/10/2013 2:13:38 PM EDT
HST all the way.


Link Posted: 1/11/2013 7:21:22 PM EDT
Not impressed with any critical duty offerings. I'll take HST over anything.
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 10:09:00 AM EDT
HST, Gold Dot, Ranger are the three best 9mm rounds in my opinion. I personally like Gold Dots best.

Link Posted: 1/12/2013 7:08:38 PM EDT
I currently have gold dots 124 grain +P loaded in all my glocks, but as soon as I cycle through the rest of that I will be using my 147 HSTs.
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 7:24:21 PM EDT
I use critical duty +p in my 9mm
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 8:49:50 PM EDT
HST for sure.
Link Posted: 1/13/2013 4:06:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dissipator556:
HST for sure.


Where do you buy this stuff...when the world isn't in panic mode? I'm assuming that finding some now would be pretty tough.
Link Posted: 1/13/2013 5:04:59 AM EDT
I ordered from here recently, they may have what you want. http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/Default.asp
Link Posted: 1/13/2013 7:01:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LynC2:
I ordered from here recently, they may have what you want. http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/Default.asp


Thank you sir, they sure did. I decided to go with the 124+p HST's.
Link Posted: 1/13/2013 10:24:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By boarklr:
Originally Posted By LynC2:
I ordered from here recently, they may have what you want. http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/Default.asp


Thank you sir, they sure did. I decided to go with the 124+p HST's.


Unless you are shooting out of a short barreled pistol, you may want to rethink the +p HST 9mm , it expands to quick to penetrate the recommended 11 inches or more. The 147 grain gives best results according to all test including the FBI test.
Link Posted: 1/13/2013 12:35:32 PM EDT
Faster expansion is exactly what I had in mind for my application
Link Posted: 1/15/2013 3:47:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 10:11:46 AM EDT
I think they drop the ball on there duty load as well.

why not go 147 or 180

Are they worried about over penetration?

I myself wouldnt mind having a load that can penetrate between 14 -18 inches

Anyway I would take any load over it . thats on the list
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 1:49:51 PM EDT
Both will serve well and penetrate well, but the 147 hst has been around longer in is proven ammo.
Link Posted: 1/18/2013 1:23:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I'll pick HST any day over this mediocre-expanding bullet. Similar thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_20/133779_.html


Absolutely.

No comparison.

Link Posted: 1/19/2013 9:17:18 PM EDT
I wish someone would try these tests using a thick winter Carhart jacket. I have an old one with large holes worn in it, and it has the black winter inside lining. This jacket has kept every hollow point I have tried from expanding, except for the Critical Duty loads.
I realize they have to set standards, but people around here wear far more then four layers of denim during the winter.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 8:32:34 AM EDT
I bought some of the non +p critical duty the other day because that is all that was available.

But for my FNX-9 I carry Gold Dot 147gr JHP (53619)
My Shield 9mm I have Gold Dot 124gr JHP +P (53617

1911 Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP (RA45T) and when that runs out I got some Speer Gold Dot 230gr JHP (23966)
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