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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/4/2004 2:55:38 PM EST
Hey Guys...

I have a dilema.

I have the 24/7 XS Big Dot sights on my CCW gun. In slow aimed fire, they suck.

At distances over 7-10 yards, they suck.

At distances of 10 yards and less with rapid fire, they are great. Keeps all shots within the 8 ring of so on a standard pistol target.

So Im toying with a couple ideas.

Idea 1. Change the sight completely. Considering going with Meprolights. (about 80 bucks installed) or going with TruGlows (Mix of Fiber Optic and Night Sights for about 90 bucks)

Idea 2 Change the rear sight only. Since I believe part of the problem is the V shaped rear sight. I am thinking of putting the Rear sight from my XD on my Glock when I put night sights on my XD.

Idea 3. Leave it alone, and hope I dont get into a defensive situation where I have to shoot beyond 10 yards.

Your thoughts please?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:00:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:14:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 5:00:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 5:00:52 PM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 3:07:23 AM EST
If you shoot someone who is not virtually right on top of you, your ability to claim self-defense may be seriously in jeopardy.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 7:42:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Emoto:
If you shoot someone who is not virtually right on top of you, your ability to claim self-defense may be seriously in jeopardy.



Hmmmm....
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:04:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:08:30 AM EST
I have night sites on the XD, they work decent for me.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:31:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By SGB:
LE uses the 21 foot rule. If the attacker is armed with a cutting or impact weapon and reaches the 21 foot line he's fair game.



Definately my personal rule too!! Get that close to me with a Knife or whatever and Im gonna go "pizza guy"!! (but with better shot placement)
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:32:32 AM EST
Quite frankly,

I have always thought that they Express pistol sights were an ingenious marketing decision.

People have bought a good amount of them. They could have done just as well with a Heinie or a Novak.

I'll bet my next two paychecks that more good hits have been made by shooters using Heinies and Novaks, than by shooters using the express sights. At any distance.

So why would I (or anyone) want a sight that is made for 15 feet and closer??

I think it's pretty damn reckless to tell people that they will never have to shoot someone at more than 15' because that's what the statistics say.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 8:34:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By SGB:
LE uses the 21 foot rule. If the attacker is armed with a cutting or impact weapon and reaches the 21 foot line he's fair game.



Yeah, sorta.

But if a subject has a firearm, 4-7 feet, or 21 feet doesn't mean jack.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 7:19:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:02:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Perhaps spend the money on ammo and practice your aimed fire.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:07:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By SGB:
LE uses the 21 foot rule. If the attacker is armed with a cutting or impact weapon and reaches the 21 foot line he's fair game.



That's what the instructors (LEOs from Tuolome County CA) at my CCW certification course said, so I can vouch for this statement. Also, they demonstrated with practice knives and guns that if an attacker who's fairly proficient with the knife is charging you from within those twenty-one magical feet, odds are they'll be able to cut you up in vital areas before you can draw your sidearm. That means they can kill you before you can so much as line up the barrel with their center of mass.

It was a sobering class, that...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:32:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:43:05 AM EST
Idea 1. Change the sight completely. Considering going with Meprolights.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:15:47 AM EST
My CCW gun has "traditional" post-and-notch tritium sights (Meprolite) because I shoot a lot of IPSC with traditional post-and-notch sights, and when the SHTF it will be important to see something familiar so I can concentrate on the matter in hand.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 9:03:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By SGB:
LE uses the 21 foot rule. If the attacker is armed with a cutting or impact weapon and reaches the 21 foot line he's fair game.



21 feet is too close. Doing the drills in RL instead of theory, one finds that an attacker can cover 21 feet well before most people are ready to fire on him. If you are at a low ready and have already decided that you are more than willing to pull the trigger, that is one thing.

But if not, then you had better double that distance....
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 9:05:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:
Quite frankly,

I have always thought that they Express pistol sights were an ingenious marketing decision.

People have bought a good amount of them. They could have done just as well with a Heinie or a Novak.

I'll bet my next two paychecks that more good hits have been made by shooters using Heinies and Novaks, than by shooters using the express sights. At any distance.

So why would I (or anyone) want a sight that is made for 15 feet and closer??

I think it's pretty damn reckless to tell people that they will never have to shoot someone at more than 15' because that's what the statistics say.



+1000

This much I know:

People with good training can make good hits using their sights at 5 feet or 50 yards. Marketing a sight based on only arm's length engagements is just irresponsible. Plain black Novaks with a little yellow paint on the front sight is good enough to get you on target fast at close range, while still allowing for precise shooting out to 100 yards.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:12:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
This much I know:

Plain black Novaks with a little yellow paint on the front sight is good enough to get you on target fast at close range, while still allowing for precise shooting out to 100 yards.



Sorry. I call BS. The bullet drop alone would require some hold over, over the sights to get on target.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 2:33:11 PM EST
Depends on how "precise" you are talking about. In other words, your target.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:54:49 PM EST
Buy american.. Trijicon!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:09:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:
I think it's pretty damn reckless to tell people that they will never have to shoot someone at more than 15' because that's what the statistics say.



I agree, you shouldn't count on a fight never being longer than that. As CCW holders, though, there are liability concerns with longer range engagement. It is difficult to imagine a justifiable shooting at 100 yards with a handgun. OTOH, at 3 yards, you normally wouldn't be using the sights much. I like the XS 24/7s because I can easily keep a mag in a paper plate at 10 yards in rapid fire. The big dot emphasizes a "front sight" focus, and I can use it to guide my eye to the target at closer ranges while not getting tunnel vision. Can I hit anything at 50 yards? No way. They're a compromise; they're certainly not the answer to every question. I'm happy with them, though. I got my sets for a huge discount; I probably wouldn't have paid the full retail.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:55:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By DOA:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
This much I know:

Plain black Novaks with a little yellow paint on the front sight is good enough to get you on target fast at close range, while still allowing for precise shooting out to 100 yards.



Sorry. I call BS. The bullet drop alone would require some hold over, over the sights to get on target.



No, not BS. With a slight holdover I can hit 2 liter soda bottles quite regularly at 100 yards using my Les Baer 1911. This is, of course, a more accurate pistol than most with perfectly regulated sights, and a crisp trigger.

But I have also used Kimbers to ring 12 inch steel plates at 100 yards. A Beretta 92 to ring 12 inch steel plates at 120.

You CAN indeed hit something at those longer ranges with a pistol if you practice it, and learn the sight picture needed with the round you are using. That's one of the reasons all my .45 shooting is done with 230 grain bullets....

The point is that even at those long distances you CAN use the sights to make precise shots should you practice it. Whereas the "express" sight systems would leave you guessing.
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