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Posted: 12/6/2013 6:17:07 AM EST
got a h##d on for a pistol with an RMR. Already decided to get the Trijicon RM02. ordered one from newegg (ships from opticsplanet) for 440 shipped. its gonna be a 9mm as i have tons of it and i have eliminated all the .40's out of my collection. the question is should i get the M&P CORE ($620 shipped) or the Glock ($400 with my LE discount). the glock would have to be sent off to have the milling done, sights added, and so by the time that cost is added into the Glock, cost would be similar. ive never owned an M&P, but i own and carry glocks on/off duty, and have tons of mags. i currently own a gen4 19 and a gen4 17 for off duty and carry a gen4 21 on duty. im a glock armorer, so i know the glock inside and out.

ive shot my buddies M&P9 and was just as accurate as i am with my glocks. did i like it more than my glocks?...it felt better in my hand, but again i know the glock inside and out.

whatcha think, or am i answering my own question?
Link Posted: 12/6/2013 6:31:45 AM EST
There has been a couple threads debating this, I think the overall consensus is to go with the glock.
Link Posted: 12/6/2013 6:32:24 AM EST
Yeah, you pretty much answered your own question. Generally speaking, having a slide cut for a specific sight will be more robust than the pre-cut ones from the factory.
Link Posted: 12/7/2013 7:24:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/7/2013 3:13:45 PM EST
The undisputed answer is the M&P.
Link Posted: 12/7/2013 4:39:17 PM EST
Why get into a new platform? Stay with the Glock.
Link Posted: 12/8/2013 5:24:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/8/2013 5:25:44 AM EST by dso970]
thx whiskey...didnt realize that

garand, thats my issue, ive got like 20 glock 17 mags, and shoot it real well.
Link Posted: 12/8/2013 6:34:17 AM EST
If you already own and carry glocks, you're probably best off with the Glock.

Personally, I'd go for the M&P, but that's just because I've been carrying and competing with M&P's for years. Six of one and a half dozen of the other.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 3:20:08 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dso970:
thx whiskey...didnt realize that

garand, thats my issue, ive got like 20 glock 17 mags, and shoot it real well.
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no problem. I'm going through the same thing, I'm gonna do it on a 19 and use ATEI for the work. I just need to take the 1500 dollar plunge as I want some slide cuts, grip mods, refinish, and 3.25 moa rmr.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 4:27:38 AM EST
If Glocks work for you, stick with them. The ATOM mount even allows for multiple dots to be mounted--I'd even just look at getting the pre-cut slide from them.

I'd avoid the M&P PRO CORE. I got one (2013) model and had the whole "patterning like a shotgun" issue with it. The gun shot 8" patterns at 25 yards. The new owner is happy with 4 inches at 7-10 yards.

At 50 yards, shooting double action, I can shoot 4-6 inches, so it wasn't me.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 4:34:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Tod-13:
If Glocks work for you, stick with them. The ATOM mount even allows for multiple dots to be mounted--I'd even just look at getting the pre-cut slide from them.

I'd avoid the M&P PRO CORE. I got one (2013) model and had the whole "patterning like a shotgun" issue with it. The gun shot 8" patterns at 25 yards. The new owner is happy with 4 inches at 7-10 yards.

At 50 yards, shooting double action, I can shoot 4-6 inches, so it wasn't me.
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first i have heard about these problems with the core.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 4:35:12 AM EST
I think Kilowhiskey was linking to my post in the other thread, so I'll just add this... I think the Atom mount is a really cool idea, but it suffers some of the same issues as the M&P CORE. The best option is to have your slide milled for the MRDS that you intend to use. That gets the dot down as low on the bore axis as possible. If you don't care about how high the dot is, just get a dovetail mount and save yourself a lot of time and money.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 4:20:02 AM EST
love your quote blah...one of the best movies.

well, got the rm02 in the mail a couple of days ago. that thing is cool. just have to sell off some stuff for a new 17. i already have a gen4 17, but dont want to cut that one because its USA marked and i dont see those too often. my boss gave me permission to carry it on duty, so we'll see.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:12:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BlahBlah:
I think Kilowhiskey was linking to my post in the other thread, so I'll just add this... I think the Atom mount is a really cool idea, but it suffers some of the same issues as the M&P CORE. The best option is to have your slide milled for the MRDS that you intend to use. That gets the dot down as low on the bore axis as possible. If you don't care about how high the dot is, just get a dovetail mount and save yourself a lot of time and money.
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The Atom mount is vastly superior to the CORE system and IMO doesn't suffer from any of the issues with the CORE.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:26:22 AM EST
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Originally Posted By tonyxcom:


The Atom mount is vastly superior to the CORE system and IMO doesn't suffer from any of the issues with the CORE.
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Originally Posted By tonyxcom:
Originally Posted By BlahBlah:
I think Kilowhiskey was linking to my post in the other thread, so I'll just add this... I think the Atom mount is a really cool idea, but it suffers some of the same issues as the M&P CORE. The best option is to have your slide milled for the MRDS that you intend to use. That gets the dot down as low on the bore axis as possible. If you don't care about how high the dot is, just get a dovetail mount and save yourself a lot of time and money.


The Atom mount is vastly superior to the CORE system and IMO doesn't suffer from any of the issues with the CORE.

I think the height, which is his issue, is overblown by him. The Atom gets an Aimpoint T1 low enough so you can use suppressor height iron sights with it. Same thing with the CORE--while I hated the 8" patterns, the sights/dot aren't overly high for what they are. Also, my understanding from recent Doc GKR posts is that they've been running into issues with recent manufacture RMRs being reliable on pistols. Having something like the Atom or CORE that lets you use 2-3 different dots, and with the Atom allows for future modifications too, sounds like a better long term investment.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:05:51 AM EST
Yes. The height is most of my issue. I guess it's just a personal preference thing, but I find it easier to pick-up the dot when it's lower to the bore axis (i.e. Closer to normal sight height). Must just be a muscle memory thing.

I also like to run the back iron sight behind the optic, but YMMV.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:33:28 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BlahBlah:
Yes. The height is most of my issue. I guess it's just a personal preference thing, but I find it easier to pick-up the dot when it's lower to the bore axis (i.e. Closer to normal sight height). Must just be a muscle memory thing.

I also like to run the back iron sight behind the optic, but YMMV.
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For me, it just took some practice. I use dots (Aimpoint Micros) on Smith DA and Ruger SA revolvers and Contenders. I've been shooting the revolvers for years, so I can always find the dot. The Contender is somewhat new, so I need to work a little. I'm really tempted to get someone to make a steel Aristocrat" sight rib, so I can have a revolver with backup iron sights and a dot. But I usually have horrible luck finding someone to perform projects like that for me.

For a semi, if I sink that much into a gun, I want my girlfriend to be able to shoot it too. But she can't shoot Glocks--her hands are too small. (A Glock recoils through the outside of her second thumb knuckle.)

You mean you like the rear iron sight between the front sight and the optic? I like that setup too. (I originally thought I'd like the optic between the iron sights, for a longer sight radius.) The reason being that with tinted lenses on the dot, if I wasn't looking at the rear iron sight through the dot, the rear iron sight stood out too much. You're right about it being a muscle memory thing. Probably why the revolvers work so well for me, since they're the ones with dot sights while the semis have iron sights.

But like I was told in a shooting class (and also teach), find what works for you and do that. Test the other stuff, but don't worry about it too much.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:39:10 AM EST
When comparing the mounted height of the Atom vs direct mounting of the RMR, this is a quote from Mark Housel at L&M (who is one of the 2 shops doing Atom installs and also does direct mounted RMR installs)

"Yes, the RMR is around .050 lower when directly mounted."

That didn't seem like it would make a whole lot of difference in actual use so I chose the Atom.

When comparing the Atom to the CORE, the issue most have with the core is that the MRDS is not supported by anything other than the screws that mount it to the adapter. So while the adapter is flush with the slide, the MRDS doesn't have a shoulder to support it during recoil and manipulation. Not having seen a core in person, I have read the adapters aren't very strong either.

When mounting an RMR on an Atom adapter place, the red dot sight still drops into the adapter plate giving it a shoulder which fully supports it during recoil and manipulation.

There are pro and cons to front or rear mounting of the iron sight to the optic so it really comes down to preference I suppose, but with the Atom it will be front mounted only. I considered the irons as my secondary sights and because I plan on carrying my G19-RMR IWB I think having the RMR at the end of the slide the ideal location. And most existing holsters will need little to no modification to clear it.

I hear the Atom system is nearly finished for the M&P.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 9:55:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 9:57:20 AM EST by Kristofer_G]
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Originally Posted By Brandi:
The undisputed answer is the M&P.
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Undisputed? I do not think it means what you think it means.

M&P9 is the answer if you do not care about being able to purchase additional magazines. Or if you want/need an alibi for your shooting performance: "Yeah, I missed eighteen times. But hay, I am using a M&P9".

Glock will get the job done...if you can ignore empties hitting you in the for head.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 10:33:59 AM EST
Forget the Glocks and the M&P's go with a FN FNS/FNX.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:18:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 11:28:29 AM EST by EvilApplesauce]
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:


Undisputed? I do not think it means what you think it means.

M&P9 is the answer if you do not care about being able to purchase additional magazines. Or if you want/need an alibi for your shooting performance: "Yeah, I missed eighteen times. But hay, I am using a M&P9".

Glock will get the job done...if you can ignore empties hitting you in the for head.
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:
Originally Posted By Brandi:
The undisputed answer is the M&P.


Undisputed? I do not think it means what you think it means.

M&P9 is the answer if you do not care about being able to purchase additional magazines. Or if you want/need an alibi for your shooting performance: "Yeah, I missed eighteen times. But hay, I am using a M&P9".

Glock will get the job done...if you can ignore empties hitting you in the for head.



this missing part of your sentence,,,,,

ive never heard of it used with the M&Ps

ETA: but i've never shot a 9 only 40 and 357 sig,, and they shoot strait
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:26:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By dso970:
got a h##d on for a pistol with an RMR. Already decided to get the Trijicon RM02. ordered one from newegg (ships from opticsplanet) for 440 shipped. its gonna be a 9mm as i have tons of it and i have eliminated all the .40's out of my collection. the question is should i get the M&P CORE ($620 shipped) or the Glock ($400 with my LE discount). the glock would have to be sent off to have the milling done, sights added, and so by the time that cost is added into the Glock, cost would be similar. ive never owned an M&P, but i own and carry glocks on/off duty, and have tons of mags. i currently own a gen4 19 and a gen4 17 for off duty and carry a gen4 21 on duty. im a glock armorer, so i know the glock inside and out.

ive shot my buddies M&P9 and was just as accurate as i am with my glocks. did i like it more than my glocks?...it felt better in my hand, but again i know the glock inside and out.

whatcha think, or am i answering my own question?
View Quote



so the M&P felt better and was just as accurate than the glocks..

the m&p design is a easy design to learn, nothing a youtube video wouldn't answer the question to. and mags are available on Botach (botach has its problems but for the most part they haven't done too bad for the prices that they sell at)

youll hear a lot of biased comments on the m&p or the glock (especially for the glock)

id say if you shoot just the same but its more comfortable go with the M&P, if you have issues with the core model from reviews just get the normal model and send it to get willed the same as you would do for the glock.

but if you want to stick with the glock (and your afraid of what all the naysayers say about the horrible M&Ps) then stick with it,,, id go with comfortable in my opinion, thats why i shoot M&Ps, they feel great and shoot great,

glock were always uncomfortable for me,
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 9:40:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:


Undisputed? I do not think it means what you think it means.

M&P9 is the answer if you do not care about being able to purchase additional magazines. Or if you want/need an alibi for your shooting performance: "Yeah, I missed eighteen times. But hay, I am using a M&P9".

Glock will get the job done...if you can ignore empties hitting you in the for head.
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:
Originally Posted By Brandi:
The undisputed answer is the M&P.


Undisputed? I do not think it means what you think it means.

M&P9 is the answer if you do not care about being able to purchase additional magazines. Or if you want/need an alibi for your shooting performance: "Yeah, I missed eighteen times. But hay, I am using a M&P9".

Glock will get the job done...if you can ignore empties hitting you in the for head.


That's just fanboy talk right there. I've owned a G21 most of my life starting when I was a LEO and I love it. It's accurate and reliable but it's anything but comfortable to shoot. I still own my G21 but the first time I shot my new M&P40 FS I was amazed. With the exception of the worst trigger I've touched, the gun performed extremely well. Not a single malfunction, extremely accurate and felt so good shooting it I instantly loved it. I had no problems with accuracy even with the crappy trigger, I expect once the trigger is replaced it should shoot even better. I never had any issues with empties hitting me either, maybe you were shooting it wrong or just have an enormous head?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 6:39:32 AM EST
Both guns are fine. Personally, I shoot them both equally well. I prefer the simplicity of the Glock, and although the M&P's have lousy triggers (lets be honest, they are lousy) the Apex kits make them better than anything you can get for a Glock.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 7:10:00 AM EST
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Originally Posted By tonyxcom:
Both guns are fine. Personally, I shoot them both equally well. I prefer the simplicity of the Glock, and although the M&P's have lousy triggers (lets be honest, they are lousy) the Apex kits make them better than anything you can get for a Glock.
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I don't mind my Pro trigger. It's pretty solid. Same thing for my Shield.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 7:19:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 7:23:12 AM EST by Kristofer_G]
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Originally Posted By Brandi:


That's just fanboy talk right there. I've owned a G21 most of my life starting when I was a LEO and I love it. It's accurate and reliable but it's anything but comfortable to shoot. I still own my G21 but the first time I shot my new M&P40 FS I was amazed. With the exception of the worst trigger I've touched, the gun performed extremely well. Not a single malfunction, extremely accurate and felt so good shooting it I instantly loved it. I had no problems with accuracy even with the crappy trigger, I expect once the trigger is replaced it should shoot even better. I never had any issues with empties hitting me either, maybe you were shooting it wrong or just have an enormous head?
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Originally Posted By Brandi:
Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:
Originally Posted By Brandi:
The undisputed answer is the M&P.


Undisputed? I do not think it means what you think it means.

M&P9 is the answer if you do not care about being able to purchase additional magazines. Or if you want/need an alibi for your shooting performance: "Yeah, I missed eighteen times. But hay, I am using a M&P9".

Glock will get the job done...if you can ignore empties hitting you in the for head.


That's just fanboy talk right there. I've owned a G21 most of my life starting when I was a LEO and I love it. It's accurate and reliable but it's anything but comfortable to shoot. I still own my G21 but the first time I shot my new M&P40 FS I was amazed. With the exception of the worst trigger I've touched, the gun performed extremely well. Not a single malfunction, extremely accurate and felt so good shooting it I instantly loved it. I had no problems with accuracy even with the crappy trigger, I expect once the trigger is replaced it should shoot even better. I never had any issues with empties hitting me either, maybe you were shooting it wrong or just have an enormous head?


I agree your first post is 100% pure fanboy. Undisputed.

So you admit to having no relevant experience with the M&P9 in question or current production Glock 9s?

The ejections issue of late production Glock 9mm pistols is well documented.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 7:21:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By EvilApplesauce:

this missing part of your sentence,,,,,

ive never heard of it used with the M&Ps

ETA: but i've never shot a 9 only 40 and 357 sig,, and they shoot strait
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The accuracy issue of late production M&P9s is well documented.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 12:09:00 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Kilowhiskey23:
There has been a couple threads debating this, I think the overall consensus is to go with the glock.
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I've seen more Glocks being offered for sale then the M&P on all the usual places online.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 12:10:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Garandboy:
Why get into a new platform? Stay with the Glock.
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Because just maybe, there is something better?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 12:13:27 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:


Undisputed? I do not think it means what you think it means.

M&P9 is the answer if you do not care about being able to purchase additional magazines. Or if you want/need an alibi for your shooting performance: "Yeah, I missed eighteen times. But hay, I am using a M&P9".

Glock will get the job done...if you can ignore empties hitting you in the for head.
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:
Originally Posted By Brandi:
The undisputed answer is the M&P.


Undisputed? I do not think it means what you think it means.

M&P9 is the answer if you do not care about being able to purchase additional magazines. Or if you want/need an alibi for your shooting performance: "Yeah, I missed eighteen times. But hay, I am using a M&P9".

Glock will get the job done...if you can ignore empties hitting you in the for head.
Not even close to being correct. I've owned the G17 and have shot the M&P9 VTAC. The G17 was garbage in accuracy and the trigger, well...
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 12:23:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 12:24:04 PM EST by Kristofer_G]
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Originally Posted By GSL:
Because just maybe, there is something better?
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Originally Posted By GSL:
Originally Posted By Garandboy:
Why get into a new platform? Stay with the Glock.
Because just maybe, there is something better?


There isn't.

Originally Posted By GSL:
Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:
Originally Posted By Brandi:
The undisputed answer is the M&P.


Undisputed? I do not think it means what you think it means.

M&P9 is the answer if you do not care about being able to purchase additional magazines. Or if you want/need an alibi for your shooting performance: "Yeah, I missed eighteen times. But hay, I am using a M&P9".

Glock will get the job done...if you can ignore empties hitting you in the for head.
Not even close to being correct. I've owned the G17 and have shot the M&P9 VTAC. The G17 was garbage in accuracy and the trigger, well...


You have convinced me. Going to trade all my Glocks for M&Ps based on your inability to shot a G17 accurately.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 12:32:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By xGRYPHONx:
Forget the Glocks and the M&P's go with a FN FNS/FNX.
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Thats for sure.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 1:33:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 1:34:30 PM EST by GSL]
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You have convinced me. Going to trade all my Glocks for M&Ps based on your inability to shot a G17 accurately.
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Well, you sure as haven't convinced me based on your ignorance and obvious fanboi prejudice of the M&P.

And no fanboi, I have no problems shooting. Accuracy, trigger, ergonomics count. BS on the other hand...doesn't.

And yes, you're wrong saying no gun is better than a Glock: http://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 2:02:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 2:12:16 PM EST by Kristofer_G]
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Originally Posted By GSL:
Well, you sure as haven't convinced me based on your ignorance and obvious fanboi prejudice of the M&P.

And no fanboi, I have no problems shooting. Accuracy, trigger, ergonomics count. BS on the other hand...doesn't.

And yes, you're wrong saying no gun is better than a Glock: http://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective
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Originally Posted By GSL:
You have convinced me. Going to trade all my Glocks for M&Ps based on your inability to shot a G17 accurately.
Well, you sure as haven't convinced me based on your ignorance and obvious fanboi prejudice of the M&P.

And no fanboi, I have no problems shooting. Accuracy, trigger, ergonomics count. BS on the other hand...doesn't.

And yes, you're wrong saying no gun is better than a Glock: http://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective


The M&P is a fine pistol. Your preference for the M&P is personal opinion, it does not make it a better pistol for any one but yourself. Just the same as your personal inability to perform with a Glock does not make it an inferior platform for any one but you.

I am factually correct is saying no pistol is better than a Glock. There are many pistols of similar quality, which one may prefer to a Glock. This does not make any of those pistols actually better than a Glock.

M&P or Glock. Both are good choices. Both platforms, in 9mm, currently have a issues to be aware of in making the choice between the two.

Originally Posted By GSL:
Not even close to being correct. I've owned the G17 and have shot the M&P9 VTAC. The G17 was garbage in accuracy and the trigger, well...


You either have issues with the Glock pistol or had an bad example of a 17. To say Glock systematically produce "garbage" accuracy makes you look foolish.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 2:16:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 2:20:06 PM EST by GSL]
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:


The M&P is a fine pistol. Your preference for the M&P is personal opinion, it does not make it a better pistol for any one but yourself. Just the same as your personal inability to perform with a Glock does not make it an inferior platform for any one but you.

I am factually correct is saying no pistol is better than a Glock. There are many pistols of similar quality, which one may prefer to a Glock. This does not make any of those pistols actually better than a Glock.

M&P or Glock. Both are good choices. Both platforms, in 9mm, currently have a issues to be aware of in making the choice between the two.
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:
Originally Posted By GSL:
You have convinced me. Going to trade all my Glocks for M&Ps based on your inability to shot a G17 accurately.
Well, you sure as haven't convinced me based on your ignorance and obvious fanboi prejudice of the M&P.

And no fanboi, I have no problems shooting. Accuracy, trigger, ergonomics count. BS on the other hand...doesn't.

And yes, you're wrong saying no gun is better than a Glock: http://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective


The M&P is a fine pistol. Your preference for the M&P is personal opinion, it does not make it a better pistol for any one but yourself. Just the same as your personal inability to perform with a Glock does not make it an inferior platform for any one but you.

I am factually correct is saying no pistol is better than a Glock. There are many pistols of similar quality, which one may prefer to a Glock. This does not make any of those pistols actually better than a Glock.

M&P or Glock. Both are good choices. Both platforms, in 9mm, currently have a issues to be aware of in making the choice between the two.
But neither does it make the Glock better, either. Granted my G17 was a Gen1, but so was my USP. That USP hasn't had one FTF, while the Glock did, no matter which brand it shot. Also, just how many generation of USP's are there, versus four with the Glock, hmm?

I know my USP will fail, eventually. I love the 1911 but I know it has issues. The first step is being able to accept that your favorite or favorites isn't perfect and in no way being the best at being close to perfect.

ETA: Nice edit, so here is mine; I don't drink the cool-aid, so my opinion isn't biased and it has nothing to do with my shooting ability, nor does it make me even close to being foolish. YMMV.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 2:48:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 2:49:48 PM EST by Kristofer_G]
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Originally Posted By GSL:
But neither does it make the Glock better, either. Granted my G17 was a Gen1, but so was my USP. That USP hasn't had one FTF, while the Glock did, no matter which brand it shot. Also, just how many generation of USP's are there, versus four with the Glock, hmm?

I know my USP will fail, eventually. I love the 1911 but I know it has issues. The first step is being able to accept that your favorite or favorites isn't perfect and in no way being the best at being close to perfect.

ETA: Nice edit, so here is mine; I don't drink the cool-aid, so my opinion isn't biased and it has nothing to do with my shooting ability, nor does it make me even close to being foolish. YMMV.
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Exactly.

In a Glock vs any Taurus pistol thread I would simply say: "Glock."

In a M&P vs XD thread I would have simply said "M&P."

Glock vs M&P is not as cut and dry. Both meet the standard of overall quality and reliability. Both are okayed by just about every worth while trainer. Both are serviceable pistols.

HK moves onto new models: USP, P2000, P30. HK has much less forward/reverse compatibility. P30 costs two to three time that of a G17/19. Is it even conceivably possible that it can deliver two to three time the performance. Simply put, no. If the HK is your preference, then enjoy it. It is not necessary to purchase a HK to get a serviceable gun.

So now your G17 had not only exhibited "garbage accuracy" but was totally unreliable as well? Glock's reputation for reliability must have been built by add execs and internet shill accounts. Have you ever even seen a functional Glock pistol?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:08:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 3:09:49 PM EST by GSL]
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:


Exactly.

In a Glock vs any Taurus pistol thread I would simply say: "Glock."

In a M&P vs XD thread I would have simply said "M&P."

Glock vs M&P is not as cut and dry. Both meet the standard of overall quality and reliability. Both are okayed by just about every worth while trainer. Both are serviceable pistols.

HK moves onto new models: USP, P2000, P30. HK has much less forward/reverse compatibility. P30 costs two to three time that of a G17/19. Is it even conceivably possible that it can deliver two to three time the performance. Simply put, no. If the HK is your preference, then enjoy it. It is not necessary to purchase a HK to get a serviceable gun.

So now your G17 had not only exhibited "garbage accuracy" but was totally unreliable as well? Glock's reputation for reliability must have been built by add execs and internet shill accounts. Have you ever even seen a functional Glock pistol?
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:
Originally Posted By GSL:
But neither does it make the Glock better, either. Granted my G17 was a Gen1, but so was my USP. That USP hasn't had one FTF, while the Glock did, no matter which brand it shot. Also, just how many generation of USP's are there, versus four with the Glock, hmm?

I know my USP will fail, eventually. I love the 1911 but I know it has issues. The first step is being able to accept that your favorite or favorites isn't perfect and in no way being the best at being close to perfect.

ETA: Nice edit, so here is mine; I don't drink the cool-aid, so my opinion isn't biased and it has nothing to do with my shooting ability, nor does it make me even close to being foolish. YMMV.


Exactly.

In a Glock vs any Taurus pistol thread I would simply say: "Glock."

In a M&P vs XD thread I would have simply said "M&P."

Glock vs M&P is not as cut and dry. Both meet the standard of overall quality and reliability. Both are okayed by just about every worth while trainer. Both are serviceable pistols.

HK moves onto new models: USP, P2000, P30. HK has much less forward/reverse compatibility. P30 costs two to three time that of a G17/19. Is it even conceivably possible that it can deliver two to three time the performance. Simply put, no. If the HK is your preference, then enjoy it. It is not necessary to purchase a HK to get a serviceable gun.

So now your G17 had not only exhibited "garbage accuracy" but was totally unreliable as well? Glock's reputation for reliability must have been built by add execs and internet shill accounts. Have you ever even seen a functional Glock pistol?
Not a great source due to the person, but I counted Yeager in a video from another forum with 27 FTF's in a G19 (the one everyone here faps to and will swear it will always go bang every time), and he had the audacity to blame it on the ammo. I've shot the same amount with the same brand because my Shield needed to be broken in and it always went bang. So much for the myth as it was caught on video.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:45:02 PM EST
Holy shit, Glock and M&P's are both great in 9mm.

Children, calm yourselves.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 11:02:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Holy shit, Glock and M&P's are both great in 9mm.

Children, calm yourselves.
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Sheesh, no kidding, somebody has some issues and they are well documented lol.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 5:33:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 5:36:58 AM EST by Kristofer_G]
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Originally Posted By GSL:
Not a great source due to the person, but I counted Yeager in a video from another forum with 27 FTF's in a G19 (the one everyone here faps to and will swear it will always go bang every time), and he had the audacity to blame it on the ammo. I've shot the same amount with the same brand because my Shield needed to be broken in and it always went bang. So much for the myth as it was caught on video.
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Anything manufactured will have lemons. There are examples of USPs with problems. And there are M&Ps with problems. Do a few incidents of any pistol failing make it unserviceable? That would be ridiculous. There would be nothing left. Your one man campaign to discredit a platform with a thirty year, world wide, proven service record is pathetic.

No one is suggesting you should purchase any pistol, load it and stick it in your belt, and assume it will work. I shoot every pistol I am going to use as a weapon extensively be for doing so. That is just common sense. It is conceivable that it might just not work out of the box. Hand built $3000 1911 sometimes have problems. There are no guarantees, this is all playing odds.

Glock is a safe bet. M&P is a safe bet. Ultimately you pay your money and make your choices.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 7:24:25 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:


Anything manufactured will have lemons. There are examples of USPs with problems. And there are M&Ps with problems. Do a few incidents of any pistol failing make it unserviceable? That would be ridiculous. There would be nothing left. Your one man campaign to discredit a platform with a thirty year, world wide, proven service record is pathetic.

No one is suggesting you should purchase any pistol, load it and stick it in your belt, and assume it will work. I shoot every pistol I am going to use as a weapon extensively be for doing so. That is just common sense. It is conceivable that it might just not work out of the box. Hand built $3000 1911 sometimes have problems. There are no guarantees, this is all playing odds.

Glock is a safe bet. M&P is a safe bet. Ultimately you pay your money and make your choices.
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Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:
Originally Posted By GSL:
Not a great source due to the person, but I counted Yeager in a video from another forum with 27 FTF's in a G19 (the one everyone here faps to and will swear it will always go bang every time), and he had the audacity to blame it on the ammo. I've shot the same amount with the same brand because my Shield needed to be broken in and it always went bang. So much for the myth as it was caught on video.


Anything manufactured will have lemons. There are examples of USPs with problems. And there are M&Ps with problems. Do a few incidents of any pistol failing make it unserviceable? That would be ridiculous. There would be nothing left. Your one man campaign to discredit a platform with a thirty year, world wide, proven service record is pathetic.

No one is suggesting you should purchase any pistol, load it and stick it in your belt, and assume it will work. I shoot every pistol I am going to use as a weapon extensively be for doing so. That is just common sense. It is conceivable that it might just not work out of the box. Hand built $3000 1911 sometimes have problems. There are no guarantees, this is all playing odds.

Glock is a safe bet. M&P is a safe bet. Ultimately you pay your money and make your choices.
So you're agreeing with me that there is no perfect choice and have been arguing with me the entire time while trying to either belittle me over an over glorified platform? And you're saying that the M&P that you said was crap is now a good choice and is on par with the Glock so either way, you've got a good sidearm? Contradiction friend, you have it.

If this "campaigning" is because I am that fucking tired of the BS from Glock people who claim perfection, who try to push it everywhere they go and use any and all opportunities to belittle any design. I can handle the 1911 people, they aren't even that close to being that obnoxious. And by the fricking way, just how many years has the 1911 been in service to our Armed Forces to this very moment? I do believe that well over 100 sure does beat fucking 30, so in an essence any shit talking by any glock-tard on any 1911 is even more pathetic and very ignorant of them.

My needs are simple: Trigger, accuracy, and ergonomical, I tell everyone who wants to buy a pistol for the first time to try them out with a friend or friends to see what they would want. I for one do not care what platform they choose. I am not them and I'd rather see them getting their money's worth. But I also do not want to see them misled by numpties at the same time.

Glock's are not a safe bet with me; I've had three. All three were highly disappointing. But whatever, blame it on me and keep falling for that hype when I can be handed a S&W, CZ, USP, 1911, Sig, HK, or a Beretta and shoot just fine and even better.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 12:06:53 PM EST
Thanks for ruining a great thread with all this fanboi bs. You might as well be 2 teens arguing about Xbox vs Playstation.

Both of your severely biased opinions are worthless.
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